South Texas 2011 Forum

[Mce252]

So,
I got accepted last Thursday. I just, today, sent in my financial aid paperwork, but I haven't gotten anything from the school offering me money.
Should I take this to mean that they're not offering me money? Or do they need my FA paperwork before they make an offer?
Between loans and slowly siphoning money out of the rest of you (via my magic bean business - these things are great, you guys're gonna love 'em), I'll probably be able to swing full price, but I sure as hell would rather not if I don't absolutely have to.

Are you talking about scholarship money or your financial aid package? If you haven't gotten any at this point, I would guess that you probably aren't receiving scholarship money.

i haven't gotten anything from FA @ all - scholarships, loan eligibility, nada.
Did they send scholarship stuff out w/acceptance letters? even to ppl that hadn't filled out the new student FA paperwork?

Scholarships have nothing to do with your financial aid paperwork - that only determines your eligibility for federal loans and such. I received my scholarship information within a week after being accepted, but I read somewhere that they aren't giving out anymore scholarships. I could be wrong, so just ask about it.

[Beestinga]

That's what I was afraid of.
Thanks. I'll call or email or something.

[abcd]

I need some major advice. I got accepted to STCL but am reconsidering the whole law school deal. I have many friends who have graduated from Wesleyan and STCL and say that they are in debt with no job prospects and their friends in law school are in the same boat. I don't know what to do, or if it's even worth it.

[Beestinga]

I...I don't want this question to come across as too simplistic, but before I can offer you advice, I need to know the answer to this question.
Take a second to think about it.

Do you want to be a lawyer?

[Mce252]

I need some major advice. I got accepted to STCL but am reconsidering the whole law school deal. I have many friends who have graduated from Wesleyan and STCL and say that they are in debt with no job prospects and their friends in law school are in the same boat. I don't know what to do, or if it's even worth it.

With that uncertainty, if you are planning to take out more than 20,000 in debt, do not go to law school.

[benzarden]

Hey guys,
how does every joke FutureLitigator27 tells start?

*long look over both shoulders*
"OK. I'm not racist or anything, but..."

I think you are giving this guy too hard of a time. He was merely stating his observation, he did not suggest any sort of racist comment. When he visited the school, the majority of the students he saw were white. It was a pretty objective comment, he did not say whether it was a good thing or bad thing.

I'm not really sure what group he offended by saying this...

[Beestinga]

Hey guys,
how does every joke FutureLitigator27 tells start?

*long look over both shoulders*
"OK. I'm not racist or anything, but..."

I think you are giving this guy too hard of a time. He was merely stating his observation, he did not suggest any sort of racist comment. When he visited the school, the majority of the students he saw were white. It was a pretty objective comment, he did not say whether it was a good thing or bad thing.

I'm not really sure what group he offended by saying this...

seriously?

courtrooms are very nice, terrace on the roof is pretty cool, mostly white students, admissions office people are very nice, and I was able to park on the street a block away and nearby parking garage is $60 a month

soooo, nice thing, nice thing, completely objective observation not meant to be taken in context of nice things, nice thing...

I guess you could ignore all context and not read anything into it,
but I've lived in Texas long enough to know better.

[txadv11]

I need some major advice. I got accepted to STCL but am reconsidering the whole law school deal. I have many friends who have graduated from Wesleyan and STCL and say that they are in debt with no job prospects and their friends in law school are in the same boat. I don't know what to do, or if it's even worth it.

I understand you completely. I just went through this debate and ultimately chose to go to a school that was financially more sound (for me), despite that South TX was my top available choice.

If you aren't on scholarship, and after talking to the STCL financial aid office a month ago, don't count on the TEG money, you are looking at roughly 50K/yr before interest.

So fast forward three years, assume you were a "decent" student, but didn't quite acquire top 1/3 or whatever it takes to get some money.

Your 1L year you take out 50K, at the end of one year, @ 7.5%, you now owe 53,750. 2L you take out another 50K, now make that 111,531. 3L add on another 50K, from my calculations, upon graduation you'd owe roughly 173,650.
(I assumed a combo of the Stafford at 6.8% and grad loan plus at 7.9%)

The yearly interest on 173,000 is 13,000. This is the big number for me. That means if you go to STCL at sticker, and live like they "say" the average student does (49,000), not counting summers, you'll owe 173,000 when you leave. You'll also add 13,000 in interest PER YEAR, until you can start making that prinicple shrink.
Put that into perspective. 1 year out, if you make $1,000 monthly payments, you'd actually still be at a LOSS, and actually adding interest. You'd have to basically pay 1100 per month JUST TO STAVE OFF interest. You won't even be working to reduce your debt, just getting by, paying 1100 a month.

This was basically my financial though process. I still undestand and appreciate someone wanting to be a litigator taking the chance on STCL. Hell, I almost did.

Edited to add, I didn't assume income based repayment or debt-forgiveness, because they have too many variables, if you chose to things could be better.

[abcd]

I...I don't want this question to come across as too simplistic, but before I can offer you advice, I need to know the answer to this question.
Take a second to think about it.

Do you want to be a lawyer?

I really do, with all my heart. But enought to be in debt the rest of my life, I'm not so sure. There's just so many articles out there saying that law school has been misleading about the job prospects after graduating

[benzarden]

Hey guys,
how does every joke FutureLitigator27 tells start?

*long look over both shoulders*
"OK. I'm not racist or anything, but..."

I think you are giving this guy too hard of a time. He was merely stating his observation, he did not suggest any sort of racist comment. When he visited the school, the majority of the students he saw were white. It was a pretty objective comment, he did not say whether it was a good thing or bad thing.

I'm not really sure what group he offended by saying this...

seriously?

That's your response? And you want to be a lawyer?

How is what he said any more racist than this?

STCL is mostly white? I am kind of ...miffed? by that? CU Boulder being mostly white was one of my big turnoffs with it.

At least Houston itself is super diverse and awesome!

[txadv11]

Dammit I want to talk about finances, not debate whether or not a statement is "racist"...
Look, the facts are LSAC says STCL is 73% Caucasian. Like it, love it, hate it, want to change it? Great. I think it was just an observation. If it offends you, or if it doesn't, go become a lawyer and change things, but let's all relax.

I want to see if people agree or disagree with my above scenario of STCL at sticker.

[andrewb414]

I...I don't want this question to come across as too simplistic, but before I can offer you advice, I need to know the answer to this question.
Take a second to think about it.

Do you want to be a lawyer?

I really do, with all my heart. But enought to be in debt the rest of my life, I'm not so sure. There's just so many articles out there saying that law school has been misleading about the job prospects after graduating

Right now I am more concerned why the STANLEY email went to SPAM, only U of Phoenix stuff goes there.

On a different note, is class size the main factor for 4th tier status? I am somewhat puzzled as to how a school could do so well in competitions for mock trial, moot court, arbitration, etc., and not have a higher ranking.

[Beestinga]

That's your response? And you want to be a lawyer?

I'm not going to argue with you.
I went to college. I don't listen to country music. I don't internet fight. I don't watch Nascar.

Dammit I want to talk about finances, not debate whether or not a statement is "racist"...
Look, the facts are LSAC says STCL is 73% Caucasian. Like it, love it, hate it, want to change it? Great. I think it was just an observation. If it offends you, or if it doesn't, go become a lawyer and change things, but let's all relax.

I want to see if people agree or disagree with my above scenario of STCL at sticker.

I haven't taken a student loan since they changed them a year or 2 ago - can you still elect for income-based repayment options?

[benzarden]

I'm not going to argue with you.
I went to college. I don't listen to country music. I don't internet fight. I don't watch Nascar.

At least you don't stereotype. How's the view from your glass house?

[maxm2764]

Dammit I want to talk about finances, not debate whether or not a statement is "racist"...
Look, the facts are LSAC says STCL is 73% Caucasian. Like it, love it, hate it, want to change it? Great. I think it was just an observation. If it offends you, or if it doesn't, go become a lawyer and change things, but let's all relax.

I want to see if people agree or disagree with my above scenario of STCL at sticker.

I think your comment on finances is definitely TCR. If I didn't receive half tuition at STCL I'd have a very hard time justifying going there at that sticker price. Honesty, I'd have a hard time justifying going to any school outside of T10 at sticker. It's just a whole lot of money.

With that said, I honestly feel that STCL is a good school that does relatively well in the Houston market. Also, if you want to learn the law and be a lawyer, you should go to law school, hopefully at a relatively reasonable price Going to any grad school is a financial risk
but I think that the risk can pay off exponentially.

/rant.

I don't care what anyone says, when worse comes to worse, having a JD to fall back on opens up many doors that an undergraduate degree alone simply does not.

[Beestinga]

who's stereotyping?
just gave a list of objective facts.

--ImageRemoved--

[txadv11]

I haven't taken a student loan since they changed them a year or 2 ago - can you still elect for income-based repayment options?

Ok, from what I can tell, there is 2 forms of debt forgiveness, #1 is for public sector people, and basically you make 120 consecutive payments, or 10 years worth, and get the rest of your balance "wiped clean" #2 is similar, but for non-public jobs and it is (i think) 25 years, until "wiped clean"

Keep in mind that under some rules, they can't MAKE you pay over 10% of your gross, net, income. But that isn't always the best option, because interest (6.8-7.9%) will be growing on you.

STCL also has a LRAP program which supposedly helps pay off 100 or 200 or a small amount of your monthly loan, IF you work in a public or low paying job. Either way, you are seriously talking about paying (pick your number) 150K, 175K, 200K off over a decade or two, and the first few years will be tough trying to "beat" the interest.

[Beestinga]

yea.
it's expensive. There's no way around that, but if you work in public sector or otherwise shitlaw, there's programs to help you out and if you get a job paying really well and don't qualify for those programs, well, that's not so bad either.
You're right in that it is a soul-crushing amount of debt - more than my mortgage, at a rate higher than my mortgage, and on worse terms than my mortgage (i can just give back my house if i can't make payments - my mortgage holder can't garnish my wages, etc.) - buuuuut, I think that best serves to illustrate the point that you shouldn't go to law school (esp. T4 law) for the money. If being a lawyer is what you want to do, then you'll find a way to make it work.
At least...
...that's what I plan to do.

[txadv11]

yea.
it's expensive. There's no way around that, but if you work in public sector or otherwise shitlaw, there's programs to help you out and if you get a job paying really well and don't qualify for those programs, well, that's not so bad either.
You're right in that it is a soul-crushing amount of debt - more than my mortgage, at a rate higher than my mortgage, and on worse terms than my mortgage (i can just give back my house if i can't make payments - my mortgage holder can't garnish my wages, etc.) - buuuuut, I think that best serves to illustrate the point that you shouldn't go to law school (esp. T4 law) for the money. If being a lawyer is what you want to do, then you'll find a way to make it work.
At least...
...that's what I plan to do.

I'm about to head out, and hope some more people will discuss this topic over the "other", but let me leave you with this:
A good friend of mine, is a 2006 or 2007 graduate from a "top 10" litigation school. Not highly ranked overall, just like STCL. He had between 150 and 200K from a bit of UG, plus LS. Worked the first year or so at a salary of 35K, then in the past few years:

His pay= 60K/yr, private sector. After taxes he has about 47K take-home. After student loans (1500/month) he lives on 29,000
Let me be clear, this is just my anecdote from a 5-6 year out lawyer. I'm sure someone could easily counter me with a bazillionaire lawyer, but I'm just trying to show you what 60,000 really means when you have big debt.

[jacketman03]

Dammit I want to talk about finances, not debate whether or not a statement is "racist"...
Look, the facts are LSAC says STCL is 73% Caucasian. Like it, love it, hate it, want to change it? Great. I think it was just an observation. If it offends you, or if it doesn't, go become a lawyer and change things, but let's all relax.

I want to see if people agree or disagree with my above scenario of STCL at sticker.

Your scenario of STCL at sticker is about the same as what I've come up with, and it's probably contributing to my sleepless "what the hell am I gonna do if I wind up with almost $200k in debt in 3 years" nights.

Although, they are dischargeable upon death, and seppuku is considered honorable...

But seriously, I kinda agree with what has been said about this here, and I tend to agree with maxm on the whole JD vs. BA thing. I just hope we're right.

[abcd]

yea.
it's expensive. There's no way around that, but if you work in public sector or otherwise shitlaw, there's programs to help you out and if you get a job paying really well and don't qualify for those programs, well, that's not so bad either.
You're right in that it is a soul-crushing amount of debt - more than my mortgage, at a rate higher than my mortgage, and on worse terms than my mortgage (i can just give back my house if i can't make payments - my mortgage holder can't garnish my wages, etc.) - buuuuut, I think that best serves to illustrate the point that you shouldn't go to law school (esp. T4 law) for the money. If being a lawyer is what you want to do, then you'll find a way to make it work.
At least...
...that's what I plan to do.

I'm about to head out, and hope some more people will discuss this topic over the "other", but let me leave you with this:
A good friend of mine, is a 2006 or 2007 graduate from a "top 10" litigation school. Not highly ranked overall, just like STCL. He had between 150 and 200K from a bit of UG, plus LS. Worked the first year or so at a salary of 35K, then in the past few years:

His pay= 60K/yr, private sector. After taxes he has about 47K take-home. After student loans (1500/month) he lives on 29,000
Let me be clear, this is just my anecdote from a 5-6 year out lawyer. I'm sure someone could easily counter me with a bazillionaire lawyer, but I'm just trying to show you what 60,000 really means when you have big debt.

That's exactly what I keep hearing. These are all facts we don't want to hear but have to face sooner or later. Thanks for all the insight everyone.

[andrewb414]

Can I ask where anyone gets the numbers for $175k - $200k debt? The school only estimates 150 if you finance EVERYTHING. Does that include interest?

[jacketman03]

Can I ask where anyone gets the numbers for $175k - $200k debt? The school only estimates 150 if you finance EVERYTHING. Does that include interest?

Yeah, the $175k-$200k is including interest on the unsubsidized and grad plus loans that will accrue while you're in school.

[abcd]

--LinkRemoved--

[FutureLitigator27]

I think the issue taken with your statement was that in it's original context the "mostly white students" was placed among your list of perceived positive attributes such as ample parking, nice courtrooms, etc...

Easy to backtrack and try to say, "All I said was there were mostly white students." However when one goes back to the original statement, you have to admit there was more behind those words.

If that is how it came across than I completely understand and I apologize. By now means did I intend that to be a positive. You can assume there was "more behind those words" if you would like, but I honestly don't care.