Fordham 2011 Forum

[aliarrow]

Firms outside of the NLJ250 that pay that much seem to be specialty firms that take experienced science types or else shy away from brand new grads. I know where Fordham grads from the middle of the class go--I have met them--and it isn't to firms paying this much dough.

My guess is that Fordham counted as employed at graduation a bunch of kids who at one time had job offers but eventually were told not to show up by their employers.

The data used is the status of grads 9 months from graduation. I'm a skeptic, I am looking for a way the data could have been manipulated, but I'm not really finding any. The only thing I've found (part time not included in median salary), I've already pointed out.

[Gemini]

Firms outside of the NLJ250 that pay that much seem to be specialty firms that take experienced science types or else shy away from brand new grads. I know where Fordham grads from the middle of the class go--I have met them--and it isn't to firms paying this much dough.

My guess is that Fordham counted as employed at graduation a bunch of kids who at one time had job offers but eventually were told not to show up by their employers.

If Fordham did that, and I really think they don't because the Dean told us he contributes info to LST, then I have no doubt other schools do it, too. So where does that leave us?

[maglialoro]

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[MrAnon]

If Fordham did that, and I really think they don't because the Dean told us he contributes info to LST, then I have no doubt other schools do it, too. So where does that leave us?

Read the fine print and the footnotes...the deferrals are indeed included...

http://law.fordham.edu/career-planning/17281.htm

In the Spring of 2009 some large law firms began to announce that incoming associates' start dates would be deferred by a few months to a year. Each firm had a different situation and not every firm deferred start dates. NALP provided guidance to law schools that they should report these students as employed at their firms regardless of their start date and if they were volunteering at public sector employers during their deferral period; so the above chart reflects that. To assist prospective and admitted students in understanding this situation, we undertook an effort to obtain specific start dates for each of these graduates:
(i) 44% started with their firm in Fall 2009;
(ii) 28% started with their firm in January/February 2010;
(iii) 4% will start with their firm in Spring 2010;
(iv) 9% will start with their firm in Fall 2010; and
(v) 3% will start with their firm in January 2011.
(Of the graduates employed at large law firms 88% responded with their specific start date; the remaining 12% while confirming employment did not provide us with their start date). Those whose start dates were deferred to the Spring 2010 or later, received stipends from their firms and are currently volunteering and gaining legal experience in a variety of public sector settings.

Edit: actually if you read this it seems that many of these folks had already started at their firms by February. I guess if one wanted to critique it one could still speculate whether group iii, iv, and v ever started, but those aren't big numbers.

This info is so convoluted with percentages of percentages of percentages I don't get how they expect that anyone can ever make heads or tails of any of it.

[MrAnon]

If I were you and I was trying to decide whether to attend any school based on job prospects then I would simply ask the Dean to share with you the employment survey results with identifying information redacted. It is 100% guaranteed that information from the surveys has been entered into a computer system at some point and the report without names and social security numbers could be printed out in all of 10 seconds for you. As a consumer, my feeling is that if I am going to pay $150k to attend a professional school then I have a right to know what its employment statistics look like in the raw.

Another thing you could do is to obtain a list of firms that come to OCI and then go to those firms' websites and see how many people from a given school got jobs there. As an example, I noticed that Patton Boggs comes to Fordham's OCI. Well Patton Boggs doesn't have a Fordham grad from 2009 or 2010 currently among its ranks.

[Stringer6]

MrAnon, you're killing

[MrAnon]

I am looking for a way the data could have been manipulated, but I'm not really finding any

Some schools will look to students who are working as temps and count them as employed at law firms. Further, since temp/doc reviewers make good weekly salaries, that information can be extrapolated into a full year salary of 6 figures. I am not suggesting that is what is going on here, but many possibilities exist to explain the numbers.

[maglialoro]

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[MrAnon]

Oh I think every school inflates, don't you? I don't know how to explain that. Its definitely good if true.

One could also say that there are also more high paying temp attorney positions up for grabs in NYC. along that line I'd be curious to know the discrepancy between the number of Brooklyn, Cardozo, and St. Johns grads who were reportedly hired by NLJ250 vs. the numbers that those schools claim to have earning over 145k. Without question, there is a grad doing temp work from one or all of those schools and he is not properly reflected in the data.

[maglialoro]

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[aliarrow]

I am looking for a way the data could have been manipulated, but I'm not really finding any

Some schools will look to students who are working as temps and count them as employed at law firms. Further, since temp/doc reviewers make good weekly salaries, that information can be extrapolated into a full year salary of 6 figures. I am not suggesting that is what is going on here, but many possibilities exist to explain the numbers.

That could be, I'm trying to figure that part out.
US News has a break down of grads employed in Bar Required positions and Grads employed in positions that are non-professional/not part of a path/temporary. I'm not 100% sure which category Doc review type jobs are counted in, since I assume they're Bar Required, yet also Temporary.

[MrAnon]

They technically do not require bar, but are bar preferred. I would think people would tend towards selecting that they bar required because they are under that impression.

[aliarrow]

I think they are hiding them in JD Preferred. One of the example jobs is "Corporate Contracts Administrator", and I noticed UC-Davis has a large % of grads employed in part-time jobs in that category. For the purpose of this discussion, the % of grads in that category is quite low for Fordham, so I don't think that explains it.

[aliarrow]

I updated the chart to reflect part-time. About 42% of Fordham grads are known to be making $145k or more per year. It still looks better than its peers.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=150681

[lawschool567]

When is the seat deposit deadline?

[Gotti]

When is the seat deposit deadline?

april 15

[ryokoyuy]

My application information was all in and accepted 1/10 and I'm still at Application Complete status, updated to 3/8/2011.
Checking the status everyday is starting to feel masochistic

[leefair123]

complete since 2/4/11

[adevotchka]

IN!


Oh my god. I am freaking out. I can stay in my apartment and keep my friends/boyfriend/everything I HOLD SO VERY DEAR. I wrote a really heart-felt LOCI last week and I really think that it, and possibly my statement/good softs, helped me get in with my low-ish numbers.

Will be withdrawing from the BU waitlist! See you guys this fall!

[Gemini]

IN!


Oh my god. I am freaking out. I can stay in my apartment and keep my friends/boyfriend/everything I HOLD SO VERY DEAR. I wrote a really heart-felt LOCI last week and I really think that it, and possibly my statement/good softs, helped me get in with my low-ish numbers.

Will be withdrawing from the BU waitlist! See you guys this fall!

CONGRATS!!! <3

[rocon7383]

IN!


Oh my god. I am freaking out. I can stay in my apartment and keep my friends/boyfriend/everything I HOLD SO VERY DEAR. I wrote a really heart-felt LOCI last week and I really think that it, and possibly my statement/good softs, helped me get in with my low-ish numbers.

Will be withdrawing from the BU waitlist! See you guys this fall!

That's awesome, congrats! If you don't mind, what were your stats/when you applied? Also, since I'm on the waitlisted, I'm curious-- did get accepted off the waitlist?

[adevotchka]

IN!


Oh my god. I am freaking out. I can stay in my apartment and keep my friends/boyfriend/everything I HOLD SO VERY DEAR. I wrote a really heart-felt LOCI last week and I really think that it, and possibly my statement/good softs, helped me get in with my low-ish numbers.

Will be withdrawing from the BU waitlist! See you guys this fall!

That's awesome, congrats! If you don't mind, what were your stats/when you applied? Also, since I'm on the waitlisted, I'm curious-- did get accepted off the waitlist?

Nope, not even a waitlist. I am a 3.76 and a 164/163 (Yeah, I fucked up and hate myself). Not only did my retake fucking stab me in the heart, it also made me apply late in the cycle. I didn't go complete until 2/2.

I'm waitlisted at BU, in at Emory with no money, Dozo with 78k, loyola LA with 87K, waiting to hear back from USC, and rejected from UCLA. I am very happy with my cycle.

[Gotti]

IN!


Oh my god. I am freaking out. I can stay in my apartment and keep my friends/boyfriend/everything I HOLD SO VERY DEAR. I wrote a really heart-felt LOCI last week and I really think that it, and possibly my statement/good softs, helped me get in with my low-ish numbers.

Will be withdrawing from the BU waitlist! See you guys this fall!

That's awesome, congrats! If you don't mind, what were your stats/when you applied? Also, since I'm on the waitlisted, I'm curious-- did get accepted off the waitlist?

Nope, not even a waitlist. I am a 3.76 and a 164/163 (Yeah, I fucked up and hate myself). Not only did my retake fucking stab me in the heart, it also made me apply late in the cycle. I didn't go complete until 2/2.

I'm waitlisted at BU, in at Emory with no money, Dozo with 78k, loyola LA with 87K, waiting to hear back from USC, and rejected from UCLA. I am very happy with my cycle.

CONGRATS!

&ohai same LSAT scores except the other way around. i was testing at like 168-173 too lol. whatevsss. See you at ASD on April 2nd?

[Gemini]

I'm also same LSAT scores but 163/164.

I won't be at ASD since I was there in February, but I'll be waiting outside when it ends.

[Gotti]

I'm also same LSAT scores but 163/164.

I won't be at ASD since I was there in February, but I'll be waiting outside when it ends.

hahaha ok creeeppperr

wow didn't know we both got 163/164, twinsie!