In at Notre Dame (2013) Forum

[sckon]

I wouldnt be surprised if they are being waayyy more selective than normal to try and make a run at the rankings. With Illinois in the dumps and Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana getting killed in OCI they might be trying for t-20.

[BuffaloSabres137]

IN AT ND!

I agree that the window sticker is pretty cool and if I had a car it would definitely be in there.

I have a 3.82 as an undergrad at ND, 161 LSAT, good softs, I wrote my main PS about ND, and I also wrote a flawless optional ND essay.

I was accepted early a few weeks ago via mail/email, and I have a few questions for you all.

1. No mention of $ in my acceptance. ND is clearly my top choice but I am worried about $. For those of you who got in, was the scholarship offer included in your acceptance letter?

2. According to their policy, I have until the end of January to make a choice. Does anyone know how/if I can contact other schools that I applied to and let them know my situation? I feel as though telling them that I will be going to ND unless they make me an offer I can't refuse might make my own decision easier and/or give me some options when it comes to $.

Again, if everything works out I will be joining you all at NDLS next year, but I am very concerned about $...

[bighead715]

IN AT ND!

I agree that the window sticker is pretty cool and if I had a car it would definitely be in there.

I have a 3.82 as an undergrad at ND, 161 LSAT, good softs, I wrote my main PS about ND, and I also wrote a flawless optional ND essay.

I was accepted early a few weeks ago via mail/email, and I have a few questions for you guys.

1. No mention of $ in my acceptance. ND is clearly my top choice but I am worried about $. For those of you who got in, was the scholarship offer included in your acceptance letter?

2. According to their policy, I have until the end of January to make a choice. Does anyone know how/if I can contact other schools that I applied to and let them know my situation? I feel as though telling them that I will be going to ND unless they make me an offer I can't refuse might make my own decision easier and/or give me some options when it comes to $.

Again, if everything works out I will be joining you all at NDLS next year, but I am very concerned about $...

congrats - cant answer #1 since i am still up in limbo...#2, im not sure if it would be advisable to squeeze out an answer from adcomms...i would imagine that would be the reason ND set up their policy in such a manner, to restrict candidates...were you ED, if you were, you dont have a choice anyways and you have to withdraw y our other apps...

what is interesting is that this (161) kinda throws off the rankings blitz theory - sounds like they probably prefer candidates that are really focused on ND...

[sckon]

IN AT ND!

I agree that the window sticker is pretty cool and if I had a car it would definitely be in there.

I have a 3.82 as an undergrad at ND, 161 LSAT, good softs, I wrote my main PS about ND, and I also wrote a flawless optional ND essay.

I was accepted early a few weeks ago via mail/email, and I have a few questions for you all.

1. No mention of $ in my acceptance. ND is clearly my top choice but I am worried about $. For those of you who got in, was the scholarship offer included in your acceptance letter?

2. According to their policy, I have until the end of January to make a choice. Does anyone know how/if I can contact other schools that I applied to and let them know my situation? I feel as though telling them that I will be going to ND unless they make me an offer I can't refuse might make my own decision easier and/or give me some options when it comes to $.

Again, if everything works out I will be joining you all at NDLS next year, but I am very concerned about $...

1. scholarship information was with the acceptance...sorry
2. Dont pressure other schools. You wont be moved up just because NDLS accepted you. Everyone does it on their own terms. Wait until you hear, and if you get into a similarly ranked school within the midwest then you can negotiate from there. But simply sit back right now and be glad your in.

[sckon]

IN AT ND!

I agree that the window sticker is pretty cool and if I had a car it would definitely be in there.

I have a 3.82 as an undergrad at ND, 161 LSAT, good softs, I wrote my main PS about ND, and I also wrote a flawless optional ND essay.

I was accepted early a few weeks ago via mail/email, and I have a few questions for you guys.

1. No mention of $ in my acceptance. ND is clearly my top choice but I am worried about $. For those of you who got in, was the scholarship offer included in your acceptance letter?

2. According to their policy, I have until the end of January to make a choice. Does anyone know how/if I can contact other schools that I applied to and let them know my situation? I feel as though telling them that I will be going to ND unless they make me an offer I can't refuse might make my own decision easier and/or give me some options when it comes to $.

Again, if everything works out I will be joining you all at NDLS next year, but I am very concerned about $...

congrats - cant answer #1 since i am still up in limbo...#2, im not sure if it would be advisable to squeeze out an answer from adcomms...i would imagine that would be the reason ND set up their policy in such a manner, to restrict candidates...were you ED, if you were, you dont have a choice anyways and you have to withdraw y our other apps...

what is interesting is that this (161) kinda throws off the rankings blitz theory - sounds like they probably prefer candidates that are really focused on ND...

ND does not have an ED. It is in theory just a EA with a deadline of Jan. 29 to accept. He does not have to withdraw, but does if he accepts their offer.

[badwithpseudonyms]

IN AT ND!

I agree that the window sticker is pretty cool and if I had a car it would definitely be in there.

I have a 3.82 as an undergrad at ND, 161 LSAT, good softs, I wrote my main PS about ND, and I also wrote a flawless optional ND essay.

I was accepted early a few weeks ago via mail/email, and I have a few questions for you guys.

1. No mention of $ in my acceptance. ND is clearly my top choice but I am worried about $. For those of you who got in, was the scholarship offer included in your acceptance letter?

2. According to their policy, I have until the end of January to make a choice. Does anyone know how/if I can contact other schools that I applied to and let them know my situation? I feel as though telling them that I will be going to ND unless they make me an offer I can't refuse might make my own decision easier and/or give me some options when it comes to $.

Again, if everything works out I will be joining you all at NDLS next year, but I am very concerned about $...

congrats - cant answer #1 since i am still up in limbo...#2, im not sure if it would be advisable to squeeze out an answer from adcomms...i would imagine that would be the reason ND set up their policy in such a manner, to restrict candidates...were you ED, if you were, you dont have a choice anyways and you have to withdraw y our other apps...

what is interesting is that this (161) kinda throws off the rankings blitz theory - sounds like they probably prefer candidates that are really focused on ND...

Like the post above, it is not a binding ED, the Jan. deposit deadline just screws you to the wall.

But you are correct in the assumption that they really want people who want to be there. This isn't really new. I'm not sure about the anecdotal evidence from Penn and Michigan, but it seems to me the "Why ND?" essay is pretty close to mandatory (with more leeway at the very top, I'd imagine).

OP: If ND is where you really want to be and you worked so hard to make them believe it, why start making noise about money now? Based on a quick peak at LSN and LSP it seems you were pretty lucky to get in in the first place.

[sckon]

IN AT ND!

I agree that the window sticker is pretty cool and if I had a car it would definitely be in there.

I have a 3.82 as an undergrad at ND, 161 LSAT, good softs, I wrote my main PS about ND, and I also wrote a flawless optional ND essay.

I was accepted early a few weeks ago via mail/email, and I have a few questions for you guys.

1. No mention of $ in my acceptance. ND is clearly my top choice but I am worried about $. For those of you who got in, was the scholarship offer included in your acceptance letter?

2. According to their policy, I have until the end of January to make a choice. Does anyone know how/if I can contact other schools that I applied to and let them know my situation? I feel as though telling them that I will be going to ND unless they make me an offer I can't refuse might make my own decision easier and/or give me some options when it comes to $.

Again, if everything works out I will be joining you all at NDLS next year, but I am very concerned about $...

congrats - cant answer #1 since i am still up in limbo...#2, im not sure if it would be advisable to squeeze out an answer from adcomms...i would imagine that would be the reason ND set up their policy in such a manner, to restrict candidates...were you ED, if you were, you dont have a choice anyways and you have to withdraw y our other apps...

what is interesting is that this (161) kinda throws off the rankings blitz theory - sounds like they probably prefer candidates that are really focused on ND...

Like the post above, it is not a binding ED, the Jan. deposit deadline just screws you to the wall.

But you are correct in the assumption that they really want people who want to be there. This isn't really new. I'm not sure about the anecdotal evidence from Penn and Michigan, but it seems to me the "Why ND?" essay is pretty close to mandatory (with more leeway at the very top, I'd imagine).

OP: If ND is where you really want to be and you worked so hard to make them believe it, why start making noise about money now? Based on a quick peak at LSN and LSP it seems you were pretty lucky to get in in the first place.

I agree, that fact OP got in with that Lsat score is amazing, and quite an accomplishment. OP should be proud, but without money from another school I dont see what one could do to try and leverage more money. Depending on the other schools, I would wait. There is two months before the deadline. Negotiating scholarships takes a day.

[sckon]

Wow. Heather knows me pretty well and I talked to her when she came to visit my UG about a month ago. I applied last cycle in January w/ much lower stats and was WL'ed. I would think I'd be a shoe-in this cycle but w/ some of the rejections they've been throwing out it's a little nerve-racking.

It all comes down to how gungho you are about NDLS. My application gushed about Notre Dame. I made my Why Notre Dame? complement my personal statement which I tailored specifically to ND. They literally do look beyond numbers..

[BuffaloSabres137]

IN AT ND!

I agree that the window sticker is pretty cool and if I had a car it would definitely be in there.

I have a 3.82 as an undergrad at ND, 161 LSAT, good softs, I wrote my main PS about ND, and I also wrote a flawless optional ND essay.

I was accepted early a few weeks ago via mail/email, and I have a few questions for you guys.

1. No mention of $ in my acceptance. ND is clearly my top choice but I am worried about $. For those of you who got in, was the scholarship offer included in your acceptance letter?

2. According to their policy, I have until the end of January to make a choice. Does anyone know how/if I can contact other schools that I applied to and let them know my situation? I feel as though telling them that I will be going to ND unless they make me an offer I can't refuse might make my own decision easier and/or give me some options when it comes to $.

Again, if everything works out I will be joining you all at NDLS next year, but I am very concerned about $...

congrats - cant answer #1 since i am still up in limbo...#2, im not sure if it would be advisable to squeeze out an answer from adcomms...i would imagine that would be the reason ND set up their policy in such a manner, to restrict candidates...were you ED, if you were, you dont have a choice anyways and you have to withdraw y our other apps...

what is interesting is that this (161) kinda throws off the rankings blitz theory - sounds like they probably prefer candidates that are really focused on ND...

Like the post above, it is not a binding ED, the Jan. deposit deadline just screws you to the wall.

But you are correct in the assumption that they really want people who want to be there. This isn't really new. I'm not sure about the anecdotal evidence from Penn and Michigan, but it seems to me the "Why ND?" essay is pretty close to mandatory (with more leeway at the very top, I'd imagine).

OP: If ND is where you really want to be and you worked so hard to make them believe it, why start making noise about money now? Based on a quick peak at LSN and LSP it seems you were pretty lucky to get in in the first place.

I agree, that fact OP got in with that Lsat score is amazing, and quite an accomplishment. OP should be proud, but without money from another school I dont see what one could do to try and leverage more money. Depending on the other schools, I would wait. There is two months before the deadline. Negotiating scholarships takes a day.

I agree that I am very lucky to get in haha and I am very appreciative of the opportunity. That is why my icon is doing the Irish Jig right now... The only reason that I am mentioning money now is because paying the full amount at ND will put me in a huge hole whereas I will most likely receive huge offers from other schools that I applied to. (If their offers come in before the January deadline...)

I guess my question to everyone is: what is the etiquette / method of negotiating scholarships?


Also... I agree that ND looks beyond the numbers and I commend them for that. I frankly did not enjoy the LSAT and I am not a fan of numbers in general haha. ND looks for candidates that really want to contribute and have something special to add to their incoming classes.

GO IRISH!

[badwithpseudonyms]

You're in a tough position to negotiate because it's unlikely you'll get into a "peer school" and if you get big money from a "lower school" (in the rankings) you can't really say "Well, so and so let me in with a full ride" because ND will respond, "We're ND and so and so is so and so. So what?" (Did you follow that last part? )

Get what I mean though? If Cornell or another T14 lets me in (not likely), I can't tell them how Pitt has in-state plus money for me, they'll just say, "Have fun at Pitt."

[LawToMe]

You're in a tough position to negotiate because it's unlikely you'll get into a "peer school" and if you get big money from a "lower school" (in the rankings) you can't really say "Well, so and so let me in with a full ride" because ND will respond, "We're ND and so and so is so and so. So what?" (Did you follow that last part? )

Get what I mean though? If Cornell or another T14 lets me in (not likely), I can't tell them how Pitt has in-state plus money for me, they'll just say, "Have fun at Pitt."

+1...TITCR. There's no reason you shouldn't ask for some scholarship money but you don't have many bargaining chips so don't get your hopes up. Your GPA is easily in their top quartile so you could try that angle with them. Unfortunately your LSAT is in their bottom quartile so you can't argue that you're boosting all their numbers. Good luck! Keep us posted about your progress...

[flcath]

For everyone who mentioned a rankings push by ND, I don't know if that's the overt intent right this second, but I do see ND being being a fixture in the T20 long-term, and maybe even ultimately joining that Vandy/UCLA/UT pack right below the T14. I say this for two reasons:

(1) Starting Fall 2010, the Notre Dame facilities will be among the nicest in the nation (as in, seriously, among the very best), more than doubling total square footage from a year ago, when the facilities were thought of as sub-par. This doesn't have a direct/immediate impact on USNWR, but over time, it gets borderline students to choose ND w/ $$ over, say, Vandy or Cornell, a bit more often.
(2) NDLS just this year replaced their old dean (whose reviews ran the gamut from "semi-competent" to "complete shit"... seriously, she had a horrible reputation) with the woman who piloted UC Hastings' impressive rise to prominence.

NDLS's big problem with USNWR has always been peer evals (meaning what other LS professors think of NDLS professors), not the lawyer/judge evals, the student quality (LSAT/GPA) factor, or the library BS. The former will be helped by the new dean.

Edit: grammar

[Torvon]

I have a quick question for some of you ND gurus. I am currently sitting at 3.6+ / 171 and I want to apply to ND, but I want the most money possible (obviously). Would it be smarter for me to apply now or wait until the end of this semester and apply with .05 higher GPA. It won't quite bump me up to a 3.7 but it will be about as close as possible without actually getting there. I'm just worried if I apply now they may accept me and give little to no $ before I have the chance to show them my GPA improvement at the end of the semester. Any suggestions?

[flcath]

I have a quick question for some of you ND gurus. I am currently sitting at 3.6+ / 171 and I want to apply to ND, but I want the most money possible (obviously). Would it be smarter for me to apply now or wait until the end of this semester and apply with .05 higher GPA. It won't quite bump me up to a 3.7 but it will be about as close as possible without actually getting there. I'm just worried if I apply now they may accept me and give little to no $ before I have the chance to show them my GPA improvement at the end of the semester. Any suggestions?

Apply now. The GPA difference doesn't come close to counteracting the earliness advantage. If you were talking about raising your LSAT score by 2-3 points, then that'd be different (though you can't really accurately predict that, obviously).

The conventional wisdom is that applying early helps--to a varying degree depending on the school--with admission, but it helps even more with scholarship $$$. Good luck!

[badwithpseudonyms]

I have a quick question for some of you ND gurus. I am currently sitting at 3.6+ / 171 and I want to apply to ND, but I want the most money possible (obviously). Would it be smarter for me to apply now or wait until the end of this semester and apply with .05 higher GPA. It won't quite bump me up to a 3.7 but it will be about as close as possible without actually getting there. I'm just worried if I apply now they may accept me and give little to no $ before I have the chance to show them my GPA improvement at the end of the semester. Any suggestions?

Apply now. The GPA difference doesn't come close to counteracting the earliness advantage. If you were talking about raising your LSAT score by 2-3 points, then that'd be different (though you can't really accurately predict that, obviously).

The conventional wisdom is that applying early helps--to a varying degree depending on the school--with admission, but it helps even more with scholarship $$$. Good luck!

-1. Wait til the end of the semester, I should have a decision by then. ...Better make it February, just to be safe.

[fedtaxed]

Has anyone who applied RD heard back from ND yet?? When do you all think that we should start to hear?

[Veritas]

I was hoping this bump was someone getting accepted.

[sckon]

I was hoping this bump was someone getting accepted.

This thread seems to continually crush your spirits.

[Veritas]

I was hoping this bump was someone getting accepted.

This thread seems to continually crush your spirits.

year after year.

[Rowinguy2009]

I was hoping this bump was someone getting accepted.

This thread seems to continually crush your spirits.

year after year.

I thought the same thing...I got pretty excited...was hoping for some post-thanksgiving activity from them.

[clint4law]

I assume everyone here applied RD?

[Zapatero]

I assume everyone here applied RD?

oui

[uganik]

I'm "Early Decision" & still under review.

If accepted, I will attend, unless Michigan binds me beforehand.


If neither of the above occurs, I'm planning on attending Yale/Harvard/Stanford after nailing the LSAT....

[doinmybest]

For everyone who mentioned a rankings push by ND, I don't know if that's the overt intent right this second, but I do see ND being being a fixture in the T20 long-term, and maybe even ultimately joining that Vandy/UCLA/UT pack right below the T14. I say this for two reasons:

(1) Starting Fall 2010, the Notre Dame facilities will be among the nicest in the nation (as in, seriously, among the very best), more than doubling total square footage from a year ago, when the facilities were thought of as sub-par. This doesn't have a direct/immediate impact on USNWR, but over time, it gets borderline students to choose ND w/ $$ over, say, Vandy or Cornell, a bit more often.
(2) NDLS just this year replaced their old dean (whose reviews ran the gamut from "semi-competent" to "complete shit"... seriously, she had a horrible reputation) with the woman who piloted UC Hastings' impressive rise to prominence.

NDLS's big problem with USNWR has always been peer evals (meaning what other LS professors think of NDLS professors), not the lawyer/judge evals, the student quality (LSAT/GPA) factor, or the library BS. The former will be helped by the new dean.

Edit: grammar

Hmmm this is interesting information. Do you really think a new dean will bring any immediate help? Won't it take a few years for that factor to make a legitimate impact on ND's ranking?

[flcath]

For everyone who mentioned a rankings push by ND, I don't know if that's the overt intent right this second, but I do see ND being being a fixture in the T20 long-term, and maybe even ultimately joining that Vandy/UCLA/UT pack right below the T14. I say this for two reasons:

(1) Starting Fall 2010, the Notre Dame facilities will be among the nicest in the nation (as in, seriously, among the very best), more than doubling total square footage from a year ago, when the facilities were thought of as sub-par. This doesn't have a direct/immediate impact on USNWR, but over time, it gets borderline students to choose ND w/ $$ over, say, Vandy or Cornell, a bit more often.
(2) NDLS just this year replaced their old dean (whose reviews ran the gamut from "semi-competent" to "complete shit"... seriously, she had a horrible reputation) with the woman who piloted UC Hastings' impressive rise to prominence.

NDLS's big problem with USNWR has always been peer evals (meaning what other LS professors think of NDLS professors), not the lawyer/judge evals, the student quality (LSAT/GPA) factor, or the library BS. The former will be helped by the new dean.

Edit: grammar

Hmmm this is interesting information. Do you really think a new dean will bring any immediate help? Won't it take a few years for that factor to make a legitimate impact on ND's ranking?

Yes. Like I said, both are kinda long-term things. Another important thing that I forgot to mention--and even Brian Leiter acknowledges this, and he's not an ND fan at all--is that ND's young (under-35) faculty are uniformly and unquestionably excellent... as in outstanding. Their older faculty are hit (Blakey, duh) or miss (O'Hara... I'm sorry; I really do hate to harp on the woman), largely holdovers from the days when being Catholic/loyal-to-the-cause was more important than academic pedigree and scholastic acumen. As--and assuming--this current hiring trend continues and older faculty retire, this will be the thing that has the big impact on peer (i.e., other law professors') evals. Dean Newton has proven much more capable of acquiring and retaining high-quality faculty than her predecessor; she's already gotten Stephen Smith--an extremely well-liked (and African-American!) prof from UVA--to jump over, which was a pretty big deal.

Also, I suspect that the Dean Newton's appointment actually *will* increase ND's peer eval scores slightly immediately. Not so much b/c Dean Newton is that good (though I believe she'll prove to be), but b/c Dean O'Hara was that bad (at least in the eyes of the legal academy).