International Applicants 2014-15 Forum

[fairhope71]

Law schools care about employment rate of the students so it makes sense that they care about this kind of stuff, right?

yeah, good point.

But OP might have different reasons for going to a law school than to practice law in large law firms where age does matter? What do you want to do after law school, fairhope?

I do not have any special preference for big law firms. As long as I can get employed, the firm's size doesn't matter.

Do you want to work in the country you're in now (if it's not the US) or the US?

your age may be an impediment in your gaining employment in law firms, which may be what the interviewer was referring to. But if you've been working until now in a specialised field, then I think you should definitely dig into that field and explore your options from there on.

I'm sure whatever field it is has legal implications, and with your knowledge and experience, you'll be able to secure a job whatever your age with regards to that field

If it's in my home country or the US, I am fine with that.
But one thing is certain. If I want to get a job here, work experience at a US firm is a must.
So after graduation, I have to work in the US for at least a couple of years.

[yc820]

Checking in!
175+LSAT, CAS Superior in the top 2 uni.
I spent too much time on my personal statement and ended up submitting the apps yesterday. Applied to all of T6 minus Yale. UPenn as well b/c they offered me fee waiver and Bolt b/c I loved the town.
Any suggestions on safties? I solicited fee waivers from Duke and Cornell but haven't heard from them yet.

Nice to see the int'l gang here!

[Hand]

Checking in!
175+LSAT, CAS Superior in the top 2 uni.
I spent too much time on my personal statement and ended up submitting the apps yesterday. Applied to all of T6 minus Yale. UPenn as well b/c they offered me fee waiver and Bolt b/c I loved the town.
Any suggestions on safties? I solicited fee waivers from Duke and Cornell but haven't heard from them yet.

Nice to see the int'l gang here!

Welcome! Why no Yale? You meet the numerical requirements... With a 175/superior I would assume you will be getting in at at least a couple of the T6 even without any softs worth mentioning, but if you are debt averse, you could consider applying most or all of the rest of the T14, and see whether anyone offers you a full ride.

ETA: note that Duke is the only T14 requiring a TOEFL for foreign applicants (maybe not if your first language is English), so that may be worth taking into account

[yc820]

Checking in!
175+LSAT, CAS Superior in the top 2 uni.
I spent too much time on my personal statement and ended up submitting the apps yesterday. Applied to all of T6 minus Yale. UPenn as well b/c they offered me fee waiver and Bolt b/c I loved the town.
Any suggestions on safties? I solicited fee waivers from Duke and Cornell but haven't heard from them yet.

Nice to see the int'l gang here!

Welcome! Why no Yale? You meet the numerical requirements... With a 175/superior I would assume you will be getting in at at least a couple of the T6 even without any softs worth mentioning, but if you are debt averse, you could consider applying most or all of the rest of the T14, and see whether anyone offers you a full ride.

ETA: note that Duke is the only T14 requiring a TOEFL for foreign applicants (maybe not if your first language is English), so that may be worth taking into account

Thank you for the info!
I feel like Yale is way out of my league so I am hesitating whether to embarrass myself there.
I have mixed feelings for some T14 schools such as Umich and UVA. They are definitely great schools, but I don't know if their location and international reputation will be worthy of the 3 years and the huge debt.

Here is one quick question for y'all. Do you think our LORs even matter? My recommenders are actually pretty influential people in their own fields here, but I don't think the U.S. adcon can recognize them:/

[Hand]

I feel like Yale is way out of my league so I am hesitating whether to embarrass myself there.
I have mixed feelings for some T14 schools such as Umich and UVA. They are definitely great schools, but I don't know if their location and international reputation will be worthy of the 3 years and the huge debt.

Here is one quick question for y'all. Do you think our LORs even matter? My recommenders are actually pretty influential people in their own fields here, but I don't think the U.S. adcon can recognize them:/

Do you aim to work in your home country upon graduation, or are you looking to work in the US? If the latter, then don't be afraid of going to a school that doesn't quite have the name recognition of e.g. Harvard, Yale, or Columbia, but if you seek to return to wherever you're from originally, it might make sense to limit yourself to schools that are known and respected the world over. As to Yale -- if you have the numbers, it might be worth a shot, as the pay-off is potentially huge.

I don't think adcomms will recognize even top US people in most fields (except nobel price winners and such); I expect the letters to matter more or less as much as for US applicants. What will matter is that you have letters that have the appropriate form and content, which can be tricky with foreign letter writers, since in most places people are not used to the sort of superlative praise that is expected of a letter writer here.

[appind]

I heard that you can get wait listed even if you do fine on your interview. I mean, if you are good enough to get an interview there, that means your English should be pretty good already. My friend is going to UVA on a full ride and is very fluent in English, but he got rejected after JS1.

English fluency is highly unlikely to be the reason why he got rejected. There's gotta be something other than that went wrong with his JS1. But a full ride in UVA is pretty awesome already.

why is it unlikely?

any acceptances so far? i think i read somewhere that it's harder than average for internationals specifically in t14, t6.

[musedreverie]

why is it unlikely?

any acceptances so far? i think i read somewhere that it's harder than average for internationals specifically in t14, t6.

Maybe they spoke the language perfectly.

Anyway, not sure what you mean by 'average', but I think it's slightly harder for us cuz we have no gpa to contribute to raise the median. On the other hand if you have a kickass lsat scote, then I don't see how it could be much more difficult, as our gpas will probably be calculated as median.

So let's just give it our best

[Hand]

why is it unlikely?

any acceptances so far? i think i read somewhere that it's harder than average for internationals specifically in t14, t6.

Maybe they spoke the language perfectly.

Anyway, not sure what you mean by 'average', but I think it's slightly harder for us cuz we have no gpa to contribute to raise the median. On the other hand if you have a kickass lsat scote, then I don't see how it could be much more difficult, as our gpas will probably be calculated as median.

So let's just give it our best

Yeah no idea why it would be harder than average -- muse pretty much points out the only reason I can think of. I got into NYU this week, I assume thanks to my kick-ass lsat score.

By the way, if someone feels like making a nice googledoc, similar to the ones there are for individual schools (see the applicant threads), in which we can collect anonymous data about foreign applicants (including lsat, LSAC evaluation, country or region, softs, and schools admitted/denied/WL'd) in one place in a handsome format, that'd be cool. I'd do it were it not for the fact that I'm not particularly good at those sorts of things, but I do have the magical power to add it to the OP.

ETA: I've updated the OP with the numbers and percentages of non-resident aliens for the T14 from 2013/14 ABA 509 disclosure forms.

[pylon]

By the way, if someone feels like making a nice googledoc, similar to the ones there are for individual schools (see the applicant threads), in which we can collect anonymous data about foreign applicants (including lsat, LSAC evaluation, country or region, softs, and schools admitted/denied/WL'd) in one place in a handsome format, that'd be cool. I'd do it were it not for the fact that I'm not particularly good at those sorts of things, but I do have the magical power to add it to the OP.

This would be neat.

I also don't offer any Excel skills, and I can't add it to the OP. So I guess this is useless. Although I could contribute my stats lol?

[Hand]

By the way, if someone feels like making a nice googledoc, similar to the ones there are for individual schools (see the applicant threads), in which we can collect anonymous data about foreign applicants (including lsat, LSAC evaluation, country or region, softs, and schools admitted/denied/WL'd) in one place in a handsome format, that'd be cool. I'd do it were it not for the fact that I'm not particularly good at those sorts of things, but I do have the magical power to add it to the OP.

This would be neat.

I also don't offer any Excel skills, and I can't add it to the OP. So I guess this is useless. Although I could contribute my stats lol?

Ha, I hope you will once we find a spreadsheet wizard with a little time on their hands! Ideally I guess the sheet would have two tabs, one where you can insert (1) monicker, (2) lsat, (3) LSAC eval (superior/above average/average/below average), (4) Country or Region, (5) Residency status (Citizen/Perm res/Non-res), (5) softs (highly unique/above average/average/below average), (6) a column for each of the T14 or T20 (with Accepted/Accepted ED/Waitlisted/Waitlisted ED/Rejected/Rejected ED), and (7) an "other" column for specifying e.g. softs and/or scholarship amounts. The other tab would then aggregate this data per school, so that you can see what sort of people have gotten in at particular schools. Any takers?

[musedreverie]

Ha, I hope you will once we find a spreadsheet wizard with a little time on their hands! Ideally I guess the sheet would have two tabs, one where you can insert (1) monicker, (2) lsat, (3) LSAC eval (superior/above average/average/below average), (4) Country or Region, (5) Residency status (Citizen/Perm res/Non-res), (5) softs (highly unique/above average/average/below average), (6) a column for each of the T14 or T20 (with Accepted/Accepted ED/Waitlisted/Waitlisted ED/Rejected/Rejected ED), and (7) an "other" column for specifying e.g. softs and/or scholarship amounts. The other tab would then aggregate this data per school, so that you can see what sort of people have gotten in at particular schools. Any takers?

I sucky at Excel, but I did something anyway because I'm redundant nowadays

whatdoyouthink

Can you tell me what to change?

edit: and interestingly someone changed my lsat score to a 120...? whatsgoingon

edit 2: never mind it was my mistake.. i was trying to set a range of data for LSAT score and made a mistake.. lol

[Hand]

Ha, I hope you will once we find a spreadsheet wizard with a little time on their hands! Ideally I guess the sheet would have two tabs, one where you can insert (1) monicker, (2) lsat, (3) LSAC eval (superior/above average/average/below average), (4) Country or Region, (5) Residency status (Citizen/Perm res/Non-res), (5) softs (highly unique/above average/average/below average), (6) a column for each of the T14 or T20 (with Accepted/Accepted ED/Waitlisted/Waitlisted ED/Rejected/Rejected ED), and (7) an "other" column for specifying e.g. softs and/or scholarship amounts. The other tab would then aggregate this data per school, so that you can see what sort of people have gotten in at particular schools. Any takers?

I sucky at Excel, but I did something anyway because I'm redundant nowadays

whatdoyouthink

Can you tell me what to change?

Hey, this is great! As to what to add or change - ideally there would be a second sheet that aggregates the applicant info per school, but that may be beyond your excel skills (it is certainly beyond mine). And in this format one would need to input whether you applied ED or some such in the 'other' category but that's fine I suppose. Maybe change 'UG country' to 'country or region'?

[Hand]

ok I've added a link to the OP, now people need to start entering their info. make it happen for the greater good peepz.

[musedreverie]

Ha, I hope you will once we find a spreadsheet wizard with a little time on their hands! Ideally I guess the sheet would have two tabs, one where you can insert (1) monicker, (2) lsat, (3) LSAC eval (superior/above average/average/below average), (4) Country or Region, (5) Residency status (Citizen/Perm res/Non-res), (5) softs (highly unique/above average/average/below average), (6) a column for each of the T14 or T20 (with Accepted/Accepted ED/Waitlisted/Waitlisted ED/Rejected/Rejected ED), and (7) an "other" column for specifying e.g. softs and/or scholarship amounts. The other tab would then aggregate this data per school, so that you can see what sort of people have gotten in at particular schools. Any takers?

I sucky at Excel, but I did something anyway because I'm redundant nowadays

whatdoyouthink

Can you tell me what to change?

Hey, this is great! As to what to add or change - ideally there would be a second sheet that aggregates the applicant info per school, but that may be beyond your excel skills (it is certainly beyond mine). And in this format one would need to input whether you applied ED or some such in the 'other' category but that's fine I suppose. Maybe change 'UG country' to 'country or region'?

Yeah I changed the country... and the ED thingy, which schools do ED again? Columbia, Michigan, UVA and which other schools could you tell me?

I'm going to (try to) do the aggregate thing.. but don't count on it happening though teehee I might as well start writing dissertation on astrophysics before I figure it out

[Hand]

Ha, I hope you will once we find a spreadsheet wizard with a little time on their hands! Ideally I guess the sheet would have two tabs, one where you can insert (1) monicker, (2) lsat, (3) LSAC eval (superior/above average/average/below average), (4) Country or Region, (5) Residency status (Citizen/Perm res/Non-res), (5) softs (highly unique/above average/average/below average), (6) a column for each of the T14 or T20 (with Accepted/Accepted ED/Waitlisted/Waitlisted ED/Rejected/Rejected ED), and (7) an "other" column for specifying e.g. softs and/or scholarship amounts. The other tab would then aggregate this data per school, so that you can see what sort of people have gotten in at particular schools. Any takers?

I sucky at Excel, but I did something anyway because I'm redundant nowadays

whatdoyouthink

Can you tell me what to change?

Hey, this is great! As to what to add or change - ideally there would be a second sheet that aggregates the applicant info per school, but that may be beyond your excel skills (it is certainly beyond mine). And in this format one would need to input whether you applied ED or some such in the 'other' category but that's fine I suppose. Maybe change 'UG country' to 'country or region'?

Yeah I changed the country... and the ED thingy, I'll do it now

I'm going to (try to) do the aggregate thing.. but don't count on it happening though teehee I might as well start writing dissertation on astrophysics before I figure it out

haha, thanks either way!

[appind]

why is it unlikely?

any acceptances so far? i think i read somewhere that it's harder than average for internationals specifically in t14, t6.

Maybe they spoke the language perfectly.

Anyway, not sure what you mean by 'average', but I think it's slightly harder for us cuz we have no gpa to contribute to raise the median. On the other hand if you have a kickass lsat scote, then I don't see how it could be much more difficult, as our gpas will probably be calculated as median.

So let's just give it our best

Yeah no idea why it would be harder than average -- muse pretty much points out the only reason I can think of. I got into NYU this week, I assume thanks to my kick-ass lsat score.

By the way, if someone feels like making a nice googledoc, similar to the ones there are for individual schools (see the applicant threads), in which we can collect anonymous data about foreign applicants (including lsat, LSAC evaluation, country or region, softs, and schools admitted/denied/WL'd) in one place in a handsome format, that'd be cool. I'd do it were it not for the fact that I'm not particularly good at those sorts of things, but I do have the magical power to add it to the OP.

ETA: I've updated the OP with the numbers and percentages of non-resident aliens for the T14 from 2013/14 ABA 509 disclosure forms.

i am not sure why it would be harder either, but looks like it typically is from the past threads. we only contribute to schools' lsat score, but it doesn't automatically mean that they assume median gpas for us. perhaps in some cases it is more important for them to bring their 25% gpa number up than no contribution to gpa.

congrats on nyu
numbers?

[Hand]

numbers?

see PM

[musedreverie]

i am not sure why it would be harder either, but looks like it typically is from the past threads. we only contribute to schools' lsat score, but it doesn't automatically mean that they assume median gpas for us. perhaps in some cases it is more important for them to bring their 25% gpa number up than no contribution to gpa.

congrats on nyu
numbers?

Well, I've heard something along the lines of the prestige of your undergrad institution/subject you studied are important for foreign undergrads... because they don't have much to go on otherwise. I suppose it makes sense; an above average at Oxford PPE looks more promising than a superior at an obscure North Korean university degree in Leadership Studies despite both not impacting their GPA medians in any way.

But it's such a blackbox for us international students, there's not much nothing we can do after we reach/pass the 75th LSAT percentile mark of our target schools. no need to make the wait-game more worrying, in fear of being stigmatised because we're international.

[Hand]

i am not sure why it would be harder either, but looks like it typically is from the past threads. we only contribute to schools' lsat score, but it doesn't automatically mean that they assume median gpas for us. perhaps in some cases it is more important for them to bring their 25% gpa number up than no contribution to gpa.

congrats on nyu
numbers?

Well, I've heard something along the lines of the prestige of your undergrad institution/subject you studied are important for foreign undergrads... because they don't have much to go on otherwise. I suppose it makes sense; an above average at Oxford PPE looks more promising than a superior at an obscure North Korean university degree in Leadership Studies despite both not impacting their GPA medians in any way.

But it's such a blackbox for us international students, there's not much nothing we can do after we reach/pass the 75th LSAT percentile mark of our target schools. no need to make the wait-game more worrying, in fear of being stigmatised because we're international.

While it may not be oxbridge material, I would rank the sort of leadership skills you can learn at a North Korean university as "highly unique"

[nyanyanya]

Ha, I hope you will once we find a spreadsheet wizard with a little time on their hands! Ideally I guess the sheet would have two tabs, one where you can insert (1) monicker, (2) lsat, (3) LSAC eval (superior/above average/average/below average), (4) Country or Region, (5) Residency status (Citizen/Perm res/Non-res), (5) softs (highly unique/above average/average/below average), (6) a column for each of the T14 or T20 (with Accepted/Accepted ED/Waitlisted/Waitlisted ED/Rejected/Rejected ED), and (7) an "other" column for specifying e.g. softs and/or scholarship amounts. The other tab would then aggregate this data per school, so that you can see what sort of people have gotten in at particular schools. Any takers?

ideally there would be a second sheet that aggregates the applicant info per school, but that may be beyond your excel skills (it is certainly beyond mine). And in this format one would need to input whether you applied ED or some such in the 'other' category but that's fine I suppose. Maybe change 'UG country' to 'country or region'?

Love the idea of an international students spreadsheet.
I added a second tab to that sheet, containing number counts of results. Not sure if that's what you mean by aggregated info though.
Would you want each criteria to be listed separately? (e.g. to show how many people with superior GPA got accepted/waitlisted/rejected at each school) We may need a tab for each school then and much more time to work on it.

[Hand]

Ha, I hope you will once we find a spreadsheet wizard with a little time on their hands! Ideally I guess the sheet would have two tabs, one where you can insert (1) monicker, (2) lsat, (3) LSAC eval (superior/above average/average/below average), (4) Country or Region, (5) Residency status (Citizen/Perm res/Non-res), (5) softs (highly unique/above average/average/below average), (6) a column for each of the T14 or T20 (with Accepted/Accepted ED/Waitlisted/Waitlisted ED/Rejected/Rejected ED), and (7) an "other" column for specifying e.g. softs and/or scholarship amounts. The other tab would then aggregate this data per school, so that you can see what sort of people have gotten in at particular schools. Any takers?

ideally there would be a second sheet that aggregates the applicant info per school, but that may be beyond your excel skills (it is certainly beyond mine). And in this format one would need to input whether you applied ED or some such in the 'other' category but that's fine I suppose. Maybe change 'UG country' to 'country or region'?

Love the idea of an international students spreadsheet.
I added a second tab to that sheet, containing number counts of results. Not sure if that's what you mean by aggregated info though.
Would you want each criteria to be listed separately? (e.g. to show how many people with superior GPA got accepted/waitlisted/rejected at each school) We may need a tab for each school then and much more time to work on it.

Yeah what I had in mind was a tab (or several tabs, one for each school) where for each school you can see what lsat/evaluation gets accepted/waitlisted/rejected there. But that's a lot of work -- the tab you added already is helpful!

[Hand]

OK I spammed everybody who posted ITT to contribute

[nyanyanya]

Yeah what I had in mind was a tab (or several tabs, one for each school) where for each school you can see what lsat/evaluation gets accepted/waitlisted/rejected there. But that's a lot of work -- the tab you added already is helpful!

Might work on that later if I get some free time.

[Hand]

Yeah what I had in mind was a tab (or several tabs, one for each school) where for each school you can see what lsat/evaluation gets accepted/waitlisted/rejected there. But that's a lot of work -- the tab you added already is helpful!

Might work on that later if I get some free time.

cool, thnx!

[pylon]

Great spreadsheet! Could we add years of work experience as a column (I tried but couldn't figure out how to get rid of the dropdown menu options )