Washington and Lee Forum

[tommytahoe]

Rejection letter here in Northern California, 02/19 mailing date. I didn't apply to W & L just for the hell of it. Every school I applied to I did so for a reason. But no, they weren't top on my list at all. Still, a 163/3.81 should have garnered more than that. At least a waitlist, which apparently is granted to almost everyone who isn't accepted.

For those of you trying to draw inferences from my numbers/results, my first LSAT was a 159, I applied January 10th, and I had an expunged drug felony arrest in 2003 that formed the basis of what I thought was a compelling, candid PS. Still, the thing about a criminal record is that you cannot control how people will receive it, incl. adcomms, who ares supposedly known to be a forgiving lot.
So this doesn't bode well for me. I hoped for accepts at W&M, accept/waitlist at Fordham, accept at Hastings and UC Davis. Now who knows what cards they will deal me...

[texasforever]

2/15 waitlisted batch

157, 3.98; white male

[Great Satchmo]

Rejection letter here in Northern California, 02/19 mailing date. I didn't apply to W & L just for the hell of it. Every school I applied to I did so for a reason. But no, they weren't top on my list at all. Still, a 163/3.81 should have garnered more than that. At least a waitlist, which apparently is granted to almost everyone who isn't accepted.

For those of you trying to draw inferences from my numbers/results, my first LSAT was a 159, I applied January 10th, and I had an expunged drug felony arrest in 2003 that formed the basis of what I thought was a compelling, candid PS. Still, the thing about a criminal record is that you cannot control how people will receive it, incl. adcomms, who ares supposedly known to be a forgiving lot.
So this doesn't bode well for me. I hoped for accepts at W&M, accept/waitlist at Fordham, accept at Hastings and UC Davis. Now who knows what cards they will deal me...

Wow, I had a DR on 2/15 in Nor Cal and haven't gotten my letter yet.

Sorry to hear about the ding, but there seems to be a lot of variability in the adcomms. I think especially with something that is such a qualitative issue, such as a drug felony arrest, you'll see varying degrees of reactions.

Keep up the hope, and good luck!

[kevin261186]

W&L's honor system might be the reason they have rejected your app. Somehow I can't see the addcomm being overly enthused with a criminal record given the importance they place on this unique system.

[jman77]

So all the 2/19's have been rejects so far? It'll be interesting opening my mailbox when I get home tonight...

[tommytahoe]

Fair points, both of you. Especially the point re: the honor system. Oh, that they knew just how much of an honorable, straight-shooting dude I am in person. I live a practically ascetic lifestyle LoL.

Satchmo, thanks for the pick-me-up. It remains to be seen just how substantially my apps will be affected by the crime, the avg. LSATs (so many schools "consider all scores," whatever that means in practice), and the late applications. Plus, the crippled job market and the increase in nationwide applications. Oh man, now I'm really depressed!! ( :

Only time will tell. Good luck all!

[GatorBait09]

In on 2/15
Complete on 12/9
162
3.76
non URM

Not especially excited about it; I'm somewhat interested in W&L but honestly I applied because it's free. We'll see. It's nice to be going 5 for 5 on acceptances though.

whoa whoa whoa, your decision changed on 2/15 and you're in? or is that when you got your letter?

Yeah, status checker was changed on 2/15. Opened the letter on the 18th.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Fair points, both of you. Especially the point re: the honor system. Oh, that they knew just how much of an honorable, straight-shooting dude I am in person. I live a practically ascetic lifestyle LoL.

Satchmo, thanks for the pick-me-up. It remains to be seen just how substantially my apps will be affected by the crime, the avg. LSATs (so many schools "consider all scores," whatever that means in practice), and the late applications. Plus, the crippled job market and the increase in nationwide applications. Oh man, now I'm really depressed!! ( :

Only time will tell. Good luck all!

Not sure how much you can really trust the statements on their website, but the W&L site says, "Absent a compelling reason that persuades us otherwise, we place the greatest weight on your highest score."

[Great Satchmo]

Waitlist in snail mail today, DR 2/15

[politics]

Is anyone considering paying sticker at W&L?

[Great Satchmo]

Is anyone considering paying sticker at W&L?

If I make it off of the waitlist: yes.

[jman77]

Dinged. No big deal, since I only applied due to the e-mail advertising the fee waiver. Still, it's a bit of a surprise and still stings just because it's a ding. 1 for 2 so far this cycle

[Spaceman Spiff]

Dinged. No big deal, since I only applied due to the e-mail advertising the fee waiver. Still, it's a bit of a surprise and still stings just because it's a ding. 1 for 2 so far this cycle

With your numbers, this is crazy. I have a lower GPA than you (same LSAT), and I was auto-admit. Weird.

[jman77]

Dinged. No big deal, since I only applied due to the e-mail advertising the fee waiver. Still, it's a bit of a surprise and still stings just because it's a ding. 1 for 2 so far this cycle

With your numbers, this is crazy. I have a lower GPA than you (same LSAT), and I was auto-admit. Weird.

Yeah, but like I posted earlier, crazier things have happened during this admission cycle. I found the rejection letter quite funny too... they said something like they considered subjective matters such as leadership and work experience in the review process, in addition to the objective factors. I had always thought that my softs were pretty strong. Anyway, no sense in analyzing this further. Now I'll focus on waiting for decisions on my 19 remaining apps. Good luck to all who are still waiting here.

[tommytahoe]

Yeah, but like I posted earlier, crazier things have happened during this admission cycle. I found the rejection letter quite funny too... they said something like they considered subjective matters such as leadership and work experience in the review process, in addition to the objective factors. I had always thought that my softs were pretty strong. Anyway, no sense in analyzing this further. Now I'll focus on waiting for decisions on my 19 remaining apps. Good luck to all who are still waiting here.

I got the same letter. My softs are pretty average (internship, research seminar in DC, university reporter, worked through college to support myself). So, it made sense for me, but call me cynical, but I did not imagine they personalized a typed letter just for me. Handwriting, telephone cll, maybe...

This may be their way of assuaging the folks who want to get up in their face about the hard numbers, etc...

You're right, the cycle does seem a little wacky.

[lawlaw2010]

I applied to W&L as a safety school and because it was a free app. I get accepted into my top three schools (Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and University of Penn), but I don't get into W&L. I wonder if somehow I indicated that W&L was my safety school w/o knowing that I did.

I have to agree with others, this has been a weird, odd, and interesting cycle.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I applied to W&L as a safety school and because it was a free app. I get accepted into my top three schools (Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and University of Penn), but I don't get into W&L. I wonder if somehow I indicated that W&L was my safety school w/o knowing that I did.

I have to agree with others, this has been a weird, odd, and interesting cycle.

If you got into two T10 schools, it's probably your numbers that told them they were your safety. No reason to sacrifice acceptance rate for a person unlikely to attend. Although, I'm surprised they didn't just YP you.

[MarkRenton]

I applied to W&L as a safety school and because it was a free app. I get accepted into my top three schools (Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and University of Penn), but I don't get into W&L. I wonder if somehow I indicated that W&L was my safety school w/o knowing that I did.

I have to agree with others, this has been a weird, odd, and interesting cycle.

If you got into two T10 schools, it's probably your numbers that told them they were your safety. No reason to sacrifice acceptance rate for a person unlikely to attend. Although, I'm surprised they didn't just YP you.

A lot of people are guilty of turning in half-assed and poorly executed applications to safety schools. It might have been typos and/or oversight which communicated "Safety - ain't gonna really attend". Speculation.

[Panther7]

I'll be at the open house in march.

[tweettweet]

I applied to W&L as a safety school and because it was a free app. I get accepted into my top three schools (Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and University of Penn), but I don't get into W&L. I wonder if somehow I indicated that W&L was my safety school w/o knowing that I did.

I have to agree with others, this has been a weird, odd, and interesting cycle.

If you got into two T10 schools, it's probably your numbers that told them they were your safety. No reason to sacrifice acceptance rate for a person unlikely to attend. Although, I'm surprised they didn't just YP you.

A lot of people are guilty of turning in half-assed and poorly executed applications to safety schools. It might have been typos and/or oversight which communicated "Safety - ain't gonna really attend". Speculation.

I am sure I fall into this category. I wrote my essay in 4 minutes for my app to W&L.

[MarkRenton]

I applied to W&L as a safety school and because it was a free app. I get accepted into my top three schools (Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and University of Penn), but I don't get into W&L. I wonder if somehow I indicated that W&L was my safety school w/o knowing that I did.

I have to agree with others, this has been a weird, odd, and interesting cycle.

If you got into two T10 schools, it's probably your numbers that told them they were your safety. No reason to sacrifice acceptance rate for a person unlikely to attend. Although, I'm surprised they didn't just YP you.

A lot of people are guilty of turning in half-assed and poorly executed applications to safety schools. It might have been typos and/or oversight which communicated "Safety - ain't gonna really attend". Speculation.

I am sure I fall into this category. I wrote my essay in 4 minutes for my app to W&L.

Yeah, there's your answer.

[FUMAgrad05]

I'm sure I'm not the only one going through this dilemma on here, assuming that at least some, if not most people considering W&L are probably considering W&M and GWU as well. Any thoughts on the comparison? I've seen some other threads on this, but most of them seem biased towards GW or bill&mary, and I figured posters in this forum might be more inclined to point out the pro's of W&L. I'd love to get a discussion going. I'm very attuned to outdoor recreational/adventurous activities (kayaking, rock climbing, mnt biking etc.), so Lexington seems to be an awesome location for that (assuming I'll have some, if any, time to look at more than the inside of the law library) I also have two horses and two dogs, which, again, plays to the rural setting of W&L, and would make DC a very difficult place to live and I don't like the idea of commuting from NoVA. However, I also have a strong inclination towards political, legislative, and public interest work, which points straight towards GWU. I see W&M and W&L being very similar schools, aside from setting, which seems to be W&Ls selling point for me. Feel free to point out any and all holes in my reasoning...

Also, any thoughts on W&L's ranking for 2011? Even though it's a highly speculative, fruitless topic, it's still entertaining to discuss... I've seen a lot of predictions of W&L being bumped from the T30, but with the third year program it might have garnered a little more respect from the judges/lawyers ratings (15% of overall ranking) and could possibly have some influence on academic reputation (25%). I'm guessing they use 2009 admissions statistics (seeing as 2010 won't even be close to finalized) which would mean that, with median LSAT being counted 15% and median GPA being counted 10%, W&L should be ahead of GWU and W&M (W&L- 3.56/166 GWU-3.59/165 W&M 3.66/165). All this being said, I think W&L could be back towards 25...

[84Sunbird2000]

FUMA, I agree that W and L is enticing, and for all the reasons you mentioned. If they offer a good scholarship, it'll be near the top of my list for sure. However, because of its locale, its job prospects suffer somewhat even compered to W and M. For example, the W and L had only 75% of students employed at graduation, and 92% after 9 months, whereas William and Mary is at 88% and 96%. W and L grads seem to win a ton of Federal Clerkships, though.

I'm in at W and M with a really nice fellowship/scholly combo (which they seem to give to a lot of people ) and they've been really good about updates and getting me in contact with a graduate who now works in my rural state, but the Blue Ridge is like a magnet. I also like GWU for all the political reasons, but I don't know if I could deal with the huge classes and huge (for law school) enrollments. W and L is amazing for its faculty/student ratio and intimate 1L courses. Of the schools I'm looking at, only Wake (another school that's likely in this category) is really close as regards 1L class sizes and ratio.

I'd also like to point out that you are using 2006 stats, and GWU's medians are up to 167 I think for LSAT. W and M's median is actually down a bit to 164 as of last year, while W and L is still at 166 (though it appears it took a herculean effort with scholarship money at the end for them to do it).

[NewtonLied]

For those with scholarships, how did they inform you about those. Did it come with your acceptance or after. If it came after, did they put anything about it being mailed on your status checker page?

[smatt1001]

No notice on the status checker re: scholarships. I got an e-mail about 10 days after the decision but I've heard it can take 3 weeks for scholarship info. I received a paper copy of the scholarship info about 2 weeks after the e-mail but that was also during the major snow storms so the timing on that could be off