Fordham c/o 2015/16 (2011-2012 Cycle) Forum

[dingbat]

Why is Fordham so stingy with money? They basically told me, very nicely, they didn't give a shit Cardozo gave me $40k a year guaranteed, they weren't giving me a dime. Do they just not want me to attend (I get this distinct feeling). Or do they really feel they are worth $120,000 more than Cardozo? I just don't get it.

First off, Cardozo is not a peer school. It's a step down from Fordham, in the same way Fordham is a step down from Columbia. So they don't care what you get from clown college ('Bozo)

Second, Fordham doesn't have a lot of money to give out, so there are less (and lower) schollys. On top of that, unlike most schools, Fordham still gives out a decent amount of need based aid, meaning less merit schollys

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA), so they don't really care what you get anywhere else

What are your numbers? If they aren't above their averages then I'm not surprised you're not getting anything. What makes you special that you think you should be given money?

[cogitoergosum]

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA)

I don't think this is exactly privileged information unique to Fordham... Isn't that basically the definition of merit aid?
EDIT:

so they don't really care what you get anywhere else.

This does not follow from what precedes it... If they are buying a more statistically impressive entering class, which is what all schools are doing with merit aid, then they ought to care what offers other schools are making, or they will not get those statistically impressive applicants. In other words, buying higher scores kind of entails caring about other offers.

[kwais]

I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.

[2015JD]

Why is Fordham so stingy with money? They basically told me, very nicely, they didn't give a shit Cardozo gave me $40k a year guaranteed, they weren't giving me a dime. Do they just not want me to attend (I get this distinct feeling). Or do they really feel they are worth $120,000 more than Cardozo? I just don't get it.

First off, Cardozo is not a peer school. It's a step down from Fordham, in the same way Fordham is a step down from Columbia. So they don't care what you get from clown college ('Bozo)

Second, Fordham doesn't have a lot of money to give out, so there are less (and lower) schollys. On top of that, unlike most schools, Fordham still gives out a decent amount of need based aid, meaning less merit schollys

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA), so they don't really care what you get anywhere else

What are your numbers? If they aren't above their averages then I'm not surprised you're not getting anything. What makes you special that you think you should be given money?

First off while Cardozo is a step down from Fordham, it is not the difference between Columbia and Fordham. More appropriate is Cornell down to Fordham. Significant but not leagues and leagues apart (although the gap is growing with Cardozo's drop into Tier II shit status and the lawsuit).

Second Cardozo doesn't have a lot of money to give out either, they are a much younger school with a much smaller alumni base. On top of that even though I qualified for an LSAC fee waiver I was told that I was not being offered need based aid (at this time) from Fordham.

Lastly I am a URM with a 164 and 3.55.

It seems that you are basically saying that Fordham at sticker is better than Cardozo with $120k. Which is against everything I have read. But everybody has their own opinions.

Fordham is good and like I wrote in my letter I would love to attend. But it is insane for me to choose Fordham over Cardozo at this point. They basically told me they didn't care, that they couldn't offer me anything. I will hold out and hope a need based award is made, but unless it is in the neighborhood of $10k-$15k a year I can't see myself going.

This is my personal situation, I posted this because I have noticed many other people suggest similar trends. Fordham just doesn't give out money.

[dingbat]

Why is Fordham so stingy with money? They basically told me, very nicely, they didn't give a shit Cardozo gave me $40k a year guaranteed, they weren't giving me a dime. Do they just not want me to attend (I get this distinct feeling). Or do they really feel they are worth $120,000 more than Cardozo? I just don't get it.

First off, Cardozo is not a peer school. It's a step down from Fordham, in the same way Fordham is a step down from Columbia. So they don't care what you get from clown college ('Bozo)

Second, Fordham doesn't have a lot of money to give out, so there are less (and lower) schollys. On top of that, unlike most schools, Fordham still gives out a decent amount of need based aid, meaning less merit schollys

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA), so they don't really care what you get anywhere else

What are your numbers? If they aren't above their averages then I'm not surprised you're not getting anything. What makes you special that you think you should be given money?

First off while Cardozo is a step down from Fordham, it is not the difference between Columbia and Fordham. More appropriate is Cornell down to Fordham. Significant but not leagues and leagues apart (although the gap is growing with Cardozo's drop into Tier II shit status and the lawsuit).

Second Cardozo doesn't have a lot of money to give out either, they are a much younger school with a much smaller alumni base. On top of that even though I qualified for an LSAC fee waiver I was told that I was not being offered need based aid (at this time) from Fordham.

Lastly I am a URM with a 164 and 3.55.

It seems that you are basically saying that Fordham at sticker is better than Cardozo with $120k. Which is against everything I have read. But everybody has their own opinions.

Fordham is good and like I wrote in my letter I would love to attend. But it is insane for me to choose Fordham over Cardozo at this point. They basically told me they didn't care, that they couldn't offer me anything. I will hold out and hope a need based award is made, but unless it is in the neighborhood of $10k-$15k a year I can't see myself going.

This is my personal situation, I posted this because I have noticed many other people suggest similar trends. Fordham just doesn't give out money.

So you're not a special snowflake?
Honestly though, a free ride to Cardozo vs sticker at Fordham is a no-brainer (unless you're biglaw or bust)
I'd also take a free ride at Fordham over sticker at Cornell.

[JenDarby]

Well, hopefully you get some need based or merit aid from Fordham 2015JD. If you don't, it sounds like you have a great choice in Cardozo otherwise!

[2015JD]

Why is Fordham so stingy with money? They basically told me, very nicely, they didn't give a shit Cardozo gave me $40k a year guaranteed, they weren't giving me a dime. Do they just not want me to attend (I get this distinct feeling). Or do they really feel they are worth $120,000 more than Cardozo? I just don't get it.

First off, Cardozo is not a peer school. It's a step down from Fordham, in the same way Fordham is a step down from Columbia. So they don't care what you get from clown college ('Bozo)

Second, Fordham doesn't have a lot of money to give out, so there are less (and lower) schollys. On top of that, unlike most schools, Fordham still gives out a decent amount of need based aid, meaning less merit schollys

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA), so they don't really care what you get anywhere else

What are your numbers? If they aren't above their averages then I'm not surprised you're not getting anything. What makes you special that you think you should be given money?

First off while Cardozo is a step down from Fordham, it is not the difference between Columbia and Fordham. More appropriate is Cornell down to Fordham. Significant but not leagues and leagues apart (although the gap is growing with Cardozo's drop into Tier II shit status and the lawsuit).

Second Cardozo doesn't have a lot of money to give out either, they are a much younger school with a much smaller alumni base. On top of that even though I qualified for an LSAC fee waiver I was told that I was not being offered need based aid (at this time) from Fordham.

Lastly I am a URM with a 164 and 3.55.

It seems that you are basically saying that Fordham at sticker is better than Cardozo with $120k. Which is against everything I have read. But everybody has their own opinions.

Fordham is good and like I wrote in my letter I would love to attend. But it is insane for me to choose Fordham over Cardozo at this point. They basically told me they didn't care, that they couldn't offer me anything. I will hold out and hope a need based award is made, but unless it is in the neighborhood of $10k-$15k a year I can't see myself going.

This is my personal situation, I posted this because I have noticed many other people suggest similar trends. Fordham just doesn't give out money.

So you're not a special snowflake?
Honestly though, a free ride to Cardozo vs sticker at Fordham is a no-brainer (unless you're biglaw or bust)
I'd also take a free ride at Fordham over sticker at Cornell.

No stipulations. The money is guaranteed as long as I do not fail out (under 2.0). I am not biglaw or bust, in fact I want to do Criminal Prosecution. Another hit against Fordham is there LRAP doesn't cover Government work only non-profit.

Again I would prefer Fordham, but no money makes it hard pill to swallow. Cardozo at all is a hard pill to swallow. Maybe I will get lucky and get a massive award from Fordham, but seeing how many other people get no money I am not holding my breath.

My URM is Puerto-Rican.

[dingbat]

Lastly, I had a conversation with dean xxxxx who told me quite honestly that merit aid is used to buy higher scores (LSAT/GPA)

I don't think this is exactly privileged information unique to Fordham... Isn't that basically the definition of merit aid?
EDIT:

so they don't really care what you get anywhere else.

This does not follow from what precedes it... If they are buying a more statistically impressive entering class, which is what all schools are doing with merit aid, then they ought to care what offers other schools are making, or they will not get those statistically impressive applicants. In other words, buying higher scores kind of entails caring about other offers.

Not exactly. Its a matter of how the average apps stack up. They should be able to get their average numbers for free, so they'll give money to people who are above average.
Similar effect, different way of getting there
(There's also game theory involved, but I dont feel like writing several pages in this)

[tennisking88]

They should be able to get their average numbers for free, so they'll give money to people who are above average.

I agree tho don't you think it's becoming increasingly unreasonable for those 3.5/165s to pay sticker? Wouldn't you expect the demand for Fordham at sticker to go down among the "average"?

[NJDevilsfan]

Do I have any chance at a scholarship with a 3.78/165 or should I not even bother asking? I did get accepted pretty late in the game...

[MrAnon]

I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.

Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.

[john1990]

I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.

I heard that it will be complete for the fall of 2014, so we should see it as 3L's

[john1990]

I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.

Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.

Law school rankings are effected

"Average Instruction, Library, Supporting Services Expenses (9.75%)

This is the amount the school spent on its faculty and facilities for the previous year"

Also peer assessment could be effected. And, the building is large enough to support faculty offices and classes in the same building, the school is very divided right now. Also, nice things are nice

[dingbat]

They should be able to get their average numbers for free, so they'll give money to people who are above average.

I agree tho don't you think it's becoming increasingly unreasonable for those 3.5/165s to pay sticker? Wouldn't you expect the demand for Fordham at sticker to go down among the "average"?

No, I do not think that is unreasonable. That is right in the middle of their 2011 numbers, do even though 2012 is a little weaker, it is not unreasonable for average numbers to pay sticker.
If you got 3.75 and 168, perhaps it would be reasonable to get a small scholly.
3.85 / 170 would be better.

What's with the sense if entitlement? You're not a special snowflake and if you go through life with this kind of expectations you'll be in for a rude awakening.
I've worked with a lot of ibankers over the past decade who thought they were hot snot. Guess where they are now?

[legallyblonde817]

They should be able to get their average numbers for free, so they'll give money to people who are above average.

I agree tho don't you think it's becoming increasingly unreasonable for those 3.5/165s to pay sticker? Wouldn't you expect the demand for Fordham at sticker to go down among the "average"?

No, I do not think that is unreasonable. That is right in the middle of their 2011 numbers, do even though 2012 is a little weaker, it is not unreasonable for average numbers to pay sticker.
If you got 3.75 and 168, perhaps it would be reasonable to get a small scholly.
3.85 / 170 would be better.

What's with the sense if entitlement? You're not a special snowflake and if you go through life with this kind of expectations you'll be in for a rude awakening.
I've worked with a lot of ibankers over the past decade who thought they were hot snot. Guess where they are now?

To give you an idea... if you have above the 75% range, you will likely get one of the larger scholly offers... both of mine were at or above and I got a NICE offer
but if you are a splitter... fugghetaboutit

[cogitoergosum]

I understand what you're saying dingbat, and I don't disagree.

I think for a lot of us it's just a venting thing... it is frustrating to get no-offered at a school you are really interested in when higher ranked schools are making you serious scholarship offers, and when you have the option of attending t-14 schools. Of course, Fordham is going to make its decisions and we'll have to make ours.

[dingbat]

I understand what you're saying dingbat, and I don't disagree.

I think for a lot of us it's just a venting thing... it is frustrating to get no-offered at a school you are really interested in when higher ranked schools are making you serious scholarship offers, and when you have the option of attending t-14 schools. Of course, Fordham is going to make its decisions and we'll have to make ours.

I understand - I wish I could get a better offer, but c'est la vie
I also get frustrated with people who have a sense of entitlement or think they're god's gift, which is probably due to my background/experience.
I wish you could get a better offer too as you are definitely one of the more personable and likable persons on this board

[Gemini]

I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.

I heard that it will be complete for the fall of 2014, so we should see it as 3L's

I'm so mad about that.

[mcdeeremitch]

In the process of crafting my second loci which Ill probaby send monday...looking to visit about a week before 4/16

[kwais]

I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.

Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.

man, good thing you pointed all that out. you sound like fun

[SDPalmTree]

I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.

Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.

man, good thing you pointed all that out. you sound like fun

Personally, I think it fits really well with the only really outstanding part of Fordham - its location. Other schools I've been accepted into have been emphasizing how great their externships, teaching methods, etc. are; but looking at the Fordham promotional materials, the only thing that really stands out are the pictures of NYC they place on every other page.

So at least they're playing to their strengths...

[MrAnon]

I was over at Fordham recently. They have a model in the lobby of what the new building is going to look like. It's going to be amazing. Unfortunately I think it will be completed right around the time you guys graduate. Still though, that new building in that location is going to be quite the combo.

Why do people get so swept up in this marketing gimmicky stuff. Its not as if a new building will increase the percentage of kids who get biglaw. Its just another expense, a reason to raise tuition each of the next three years and then ask the students to donate money when they graduate. And please don't tell me it will make interviewers want to interview at Fordham.

man, good thing you pointed all that out. you sound like fun

Personally, I think it fits really well with the only really outstanding part of Fordham - its location. Other schools I've been accepted into have been emphasizing how great their externships, teaching methods, etc. are; but looking at the Fordham promotional materials, the only thing that really stands out are the pictures of NYC they place on every other page.

So at least they're playing to their strengths...

NYLS does that too. The question is, once you take away pictures of NYC, does it really offer better opportunities than its peer schools? Or does NYC just = more expensive?

[JenDarby]

SDPalmTree, what are the schools you're considering (have been accepted to) with the great externships and teaching methods? No need to be coy, your comment is just a valueless rant without specifics. Promotional materials aren't exactly where I'd base my LS decision off of, regardless of whether they emphasize area or their superb teaching methods.

I'm glad Mr. Anon posts here though. Not everyone from any given LS ends up being successful, and it IS nice to see the other side. LS and Fordham do involve taking on a high level of debt generally, and you could become a bitter TLS poster when it's all said and done.

[SDPalmTree]

SDPalmTree, what are the schools you're considering (have been accepted to) with the great externships and teaching methods? No need to be coy, your comment is just a valueless rant without specifics. Promotional materials aren't exactly where I'd base my LS decision off of, regardless of whether they emphasize area or their superb teaching methods.

I'm glad Mr. Anon posts here though. Not everyone from any given LS ends up being successful, and it IS nice to see the other side. LS and Fordham do involve taking on a high level of debt generally, and you could become a bitter TLS poster when it's all said and done.

Well, to be specific, all of my interactions with BU have included a discussion of how highly-ranked their professors are, and the satisfication of the students that attend there. Though I will say that I was discouraged by their "you're probably not getting a job" speech at the reception I went to...

For GW, the conversations I've had with the new dean have revolved around all the exciting new things that he wants to implement now that he's at a better university than ASU. He put a lot of emphasis on the externship program they have in DC, the mentorship program they have within the school, and their emphasis on inviting organizations, government entities, etc. to pose legal questions to their students in order to grant them experience in handling them. He also described other pilot programs like having JDs working with MBAs at GW + more, but I can’t really remember now. I'm sure there are bound to be at least some problems with these pilot programs, but the guy's enthusiasm was pretty infectious.

All my interactions with Fordham have emphasized the fact that they exist in NYC, legal capital of the world. When combined with employment statistics, Fordham is probably the best choice out of these three schools. More than anything, I was simply commenting on the lack of anything else being emphasized as a particular strength. It has a stellar location and a solid academic standing, more than enough for me to fall in love with the school, it's just not investing much in telling me what makes it unique as an institution.

[JenDarby]

I'm surprised that's how your interactions with Fordham have gone, to be honest. When I was negotiating scholarships with them (my only real in depth conversation) they never once emphasized the location and rather buried me in useful info about all that Fordham has to offer.

I'm continually inpressed by the breadth of opportunities at Fordham. Though, I've also come to realize every decent law school basically has them. I am on my phone or I'd go into more depth, but when it comes down to it most well ranked law schools provide quality teaching, excellent externship opportunities, etc. BU, GW and Fordham really are peer schools and many of my friends picked between them when deciding what school to attend. Between the three I'd honestly say follow the money, while considering where you want to end up, because in that respect location is important.