Michigan Law School C/O 2019 Applicants (2015-16) Forum

[Aeon]

From earlier in this thread:

There was a stretch when the numbers were just bad. They've improved, and they're going to get better still. The problem, for Michigan, is that the employment data is basically 2.5 years behind. Firms and highly selected judges hire the summer after your 1L year, but the data doesn't come out until the spring after you graduate.

There's a pretty robust demand for Michigan grads. However, during the recession the school took its enrollment towards 400 / class. The entering class this fall was 267. The 2014 data is for a class of 390 graduates. It's also for a class that was on the old punitive grade curve. The class of 2016 was the first one to have the benefit of the new curve and a lower class size (~320). The data that are released in a year and a bit will reflect what we've all known since the summer of 2014: things got a ton better.

In terms of the market for Michigan grads: Basically, you've got a bunch of midsize firms that are focused on maintaining the connection to Michigan and getting a few Michigan grads, and they're not varying that a ton depending on whether the class is 400 or 250. Then you've got the big firms with which we were struggling prior to the class of 2016 because other schools had these easy grade curves and we were stuck on something else. Then you've got federal judges who are especially keen to higher Michigan graduates (lots of alums) and the demand from that group isn't really changing based on class size either. Then there are judges who don't have strong school preferences and the performance with them is helped by the GPA thing. The combination of reducing the class size by 33 percent and boosting the grade curve to be competitive with peer schools made a huge difference.

On a related note, I know some 3Ls who are still searching for jobs. In every case, it makes sense in some way. They fall into three groups: (A) The public interest people who are lining up jobs as we speak, cause that's how that market works. (B) A couple people I simply wouldn't want working for me and who, I suspect, fail to hide their complete and utter lack of professionalism in interviews. (C) The unlucky couple students who are super awkward but are actually smart, decent people. If you're the sort of person people will want to solve their problems and you're not super--and I mean SUPER--awkward, Michigan is going to work out just fine.

As far as how the 2014 data look:

Michigan:
90.3 percent employment vs 5.6 percent underemployment.

Obviously that's not the 100 percent we would like, but it's better than Northwestern (81.1 percent score), Duke (90.2 percent score), and Georgetown (79.7 percent score).

I'd also note that there are jobs other than BigLaw and federal clerkships, and Michigan traditionally has been fairly strong at placing people into those positions (public interest, etc.).

[jnwa]

Hi all, I was recently invited to interview for the Darrow and was wondering whether anyone could give me some insight into what they ask/what they're looking for? Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

I remember getting asked about what i felt had made me successful up to this point? There were other questions but i forget. Mine was pretty relaxed and conversational. Probably the most pleasant interview ive had this cycle.

[RZ5646]

You guys talking about Darrow invites are confirming my hypothesis that success is inversely proportional to number of TLS posts...

[lolRCscrewyou]

Submitted 11/9 and still have not received a decision. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Lawcat11]

Submitted 11/9 and still have not received a decision. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I submitted 11/9 and got my decision on Tuesday. It could be soon for you!

[proteinshake]

when does summer start start? I couldn't find it on the site. I will most likely be withdrawing consideration for it, I'd be a fool to do summer start right after graduating UG.

[squirtlesquad14]

Submitted 11/9 and still have not received a decision. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I submitted 11/9 and got my decision on Tuesday. It could be soon for you!

Submitted 11/9 and radio silence as well. Hopefully we both get some of your luck

[Yousirneighm]

Submitted 11/9 and still have not received a decision. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I submitted 11/9 and got my decision on Tuesday. It could be soon for you!

Submitted 11/9 and radio silence as well. Hopefully we both get some of your luck

I submitted 11/20 and nothing, hoping it's not a horrible sign... But last year they sent out a wave of wait list notifications on Friday February 20th, so we'll see tomorrow if it fits the pattern!!

[gamerish]

Submitted 11/9 and still have not received a decision. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I submitted 11/9 and got my decision on Tuesday. It could be soon for you!

Submitted 11/9 and radio silence as well. Hopefully we both get some of your luck

I submitted 11/20 and nothing, hoping it's not a horrible sign... But last year they sent out a wave of wait list notifications on Friday February 20th, so we'll see tomorrow if it fits the pattern!!

11/12 IIRC

I just want an answer either way already

[Aeon]

when does summer start start? I couldn't find it on the site. I will most likely be withdrawing consideration for it, I'd be a fool to do summer start right after graduating UG.

Orientation is on May 31 to June 1, and classes begin on June 2: https://www.law.umich.edu/curriculum/Pages/acadcal.aspx.

[proteinshake]

when does summer start start? I couldn't find it on the site. I will most likely be withdrawing consideration for it, I'd be a fool to do summer start right after graduating UG.

Orientation is on May 31 to June 1, and classes begin on June 2: https://www.law.umich.edu/curriculum/Pages/acadcal.aspx.

thanks!

[birdstheword]

blah

[sbenj]

Anyone nervous about the possibility of the WL wave tomorrow?

[alpha kenny body]

visited and ate zingermans today

[JuliusCaesar]

Anyone nervous about the possibility of the WL wave tomorrow?

Why would there be a wl wave tomorrow?

[BirdLawExpert]

Anyone nervous about the possibility of the WL wave tomorrow?

Why would there be a wl wave tomorrow?

There was one around this time last year.

[sbenj]

Anyone nervous about the possibility of the WL wave tomorrow?

Why would there be a wl wave tomorrow?

There was one around this time last year.

There has been one around this time (2nd to last Friday of February) for the past several years.

[slizerd]

Has there ever been a scenario where someone was offered a Deans Scholarship but was then later offered a Darrow or full tuition?

[The Abyss]

WL emails went out around 10 am last year, so we'll know soon enough.

[pittsburghpirates]

Has there ever been a scenario where someone was offered a Deans Scholarship but was then later offered a Darrow or full tuition?

I was interested in this as well (not only for Michigan but for other schools with named schollies as well). I couldn't find anything in any past threads, but I guess theoretically they could do it. Guessing you would likely need a full ride or close to it from a higher ranked or peer school for them to consider it. If you were to get the Darrow would you attend for sure? If so, I think being open with them about this couldn't hurt. Only way to find out is to ask!

[RZ5646]

Has there ever been a scenario where someone was offered a Deans Scholarship but was then later offered a Darrow or full tuition?

I was interested in this as well (not only for Michigan but for other schools with named schollies as well). I couldn't find anything in any past threads, but I guess theoretically they could do it. Guessing you would likely need a full ride or close to it from a higher ranked or peer school for them to consider it. If you were to get the Darrow would you attend for sure? If so, I think being open with them about this couldn't hurt. Only way to find out is to ask!

Also interested. A Darrow would make me go, but a dean's scholarship, while very attractive, still leaves a significant CoA that gives me pause.

[strawberrieee]

Has there ever been a scenario where someone was offered a Deans Scholarship but was then later offered a Darrow or full tuition?

I was interested in this as well (not only for Michigan but for other schools with named schollies as well). I couldn't find anything in any past threads, but I guess theoretically they could do it. Guessing you would likely need a full ride or close to it from a higher ranked or peer school for them to consider it. If you were to get the Darrow would you attend for sure? If so, I think being open with them about this couldn't hurt. Only way to find out is to ask!

Also interested. A Darrow would make me go, but a dean's scholarship, while very attractive, still leaves a significant CoA that gives me pause.

Didn't they say in scholarship letter that "we do not increase merit awards once they are made"?

[RZ5646]

Has there ever been a scenario where someone was offered a Deans Scholarship but was then later offered a Darrow or full tuition?

I was interested in this as well (not only for Michigan but for other schools with named schollies as well). I couldn't find anything in any past threads, but I guess theoretically they could do it. Guessing you would likely need a full ride or close to it from a higher ranked or peer school for them to consider it. If you were to get the Darrow would you attend for sure? If so, I think being open with them about this couldn't hurt. Only way to find out is to ask!

Also interested. A Darrow would make me go, but a dean's scholarship, while very attractive, still leaves a significant CoA that gives me pause.

Didn't they say in scholarship letter that "we do not increase merit awards once they are made"?

Others have suggested that isn't strictly true. Scholarshipping is usually a dynamic and cooperative process because you can't predict ahead of time who will actually end up attending / what other offers they'll have.

edit: Also, technically dean's --> darrow wouldn't be increasing an existing award, but changing the existing award for a new one.

[theconsigliere]

Has there ever been a scenario where someone was offered a Deans Scholarship but was then later offered a Darrow or full tuition?

I was interested in this as well (not only for Michigan but for other schools with named schollies as well). I couldn't find anything in any past threads, but I guess theoretically they could do it. Guessing you would likely need a full ride or close to it from a higher ranked or peer school for them to consider it. If you were to get the Darrow would you attend for sure? If so, I think being open with them about this couldn't hurt. Only way to find out is to ask!

Also interested. A Darrow would make me go, but a dean's scholarship, while very attractive, still leaves a significant CoA that gives me pause.

Didn't they say in scholarship letter that "we do not increase merit awards once they are made"?

Others have suggested that isn't strictly true. Scholarshipping is usually a dynamic and cooperative process because you can't predict ahead of time who will actually end up attending / what other offers they'll have.

edit: Also, technically dean's --> darrow wouldn't be increasing an existing award, but changing the existing award for a new one.

I'm interested in hearing from the people who "suggested that isn't strictly true." i.e. are these people who successfully negotiated w/ Michigan? i.e. are these people speculating or do they have first hand info on the topic?

[squirtlesquad14]

WL emails went out around 10 am last year, so we'll know soon enough.

10:35am and radio silence...I guess this means we live to see another day.