William & Mary Forum

[nyyankees]

applied 2-3 months ago and still DP. im pretty seriously considering withdrawing, but I sort of just want a decision out of them. Its starting to feel more frustrating than its worth...

anyone else considering withdrawing?

[2010law]

I hope this helps................
I DO NOT HAVE AUTO ADMIT #'s- but I got in.
I can tell you (at least in my particular case) W&M did not look at just #'s and did a fairly comprehensive review of my ENTIRE file. I spoke with several reps. from the college both before (forums / visits) and during the application process and was told each time that W&M looks at more than #'s and this makes the process take some time (more than at schools where the decision is made strictly by #'s).
I also know of at least 1 person (a friend) that has great #'s but she did NOT get in and she was advised by one of the writers of a LOR that the school contacted him to discuss her as a "whole person".
The only thing that I can discern from this is:
1) W&M looks at more than just your hard #'s and DOES give weight to "softs"
2) W&M seems to give you a fair chance
3) this takes some time
I hope everyone that really wants in--gets in--- GOOD LUCK

[ViIIager]

Maybe they're too busy doing grades to finish our decisions.

--LinkRemoved--

[clwilson6]

Thanks 2010Law, you post was very insightful. Maybe there's hope for me yet.

[prelaw10]

Weird (but great news for people with non-auto-numbers, like me) that they call recommenders.. they're really taking their time with this

[SAE]

Weird (but great news for people with non-auto-numbers, like me) that they call recommenders.. they're really taking their time with this

Are they just confirming that they wrote the letters or having in-depth conversations about applicants?

[klussy]

There are clear GPA cutoffs where everyone above gets in and everyone under is out. This year and last year's stats match. For example, a 165 needs a 3.5+. Only one person, a URM, had lower than that last year. This year, they've only gotten to 3.65+ so far. BTW last year no one was admitted off the WL. WM is definitely not doing things holistically, which is fine; they just shouldn't claim otherwise. Only a handful of schools weigh numbers evenly (or close to) with softs. Notre Dame and Northwestern, for example.

this year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/?whichCycle=0910
last year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/08 ... Cycle=0910

[sophistry]

There are clear GPA cutoffs where everyone above gets in and everyone under is out. This year and last year's stats match. For example, a 165 needs a 3.5+. Only one person, a URM, had lower than that last year. This year, they've only gotten to 3.65+ so far. BTW last year no one was admitted off the WL. WM is definitely not doing things holistically, which is fine; they just shouldn't claim otherwise. Only a handful of schools weigh numbers evenly (or close to) with softs. Notre Dame and Northwestern, for example.

this year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/?whichCycle=0910
last year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/08 ... Cycle=0910

Yes and no. There's a clear line going from 164/3.7 to 165/3.5 to 166/3.45 and so on. That seems like a pretty clear cutoff and anyone below that line shouldn't get their hopes up.

However, this year there's a 165/3.23 and a 166/3.3, both non-URMs, who got in. They look at softs perhaps a bit more that some other schools, but overall, I agree with klussy.

[Emma1]

Law school numbers shows a pattern but all applications to W&M are not included.

There are clear GPA cutoffs where everyone above gets in and everyone under is out. This year and last year's stats match. For example, a 165 needs a 3.5+. Only one person, a URM, had lower than that last year. This year, they've only gotten to 3.65+ so far. BTW last year no one was admitted off the WL. WM is definitely not doing things holistically, which is fine; they just shouldn't claim otherwise. Only a handful of schools weigh numbers evenly (or close to) with softs. Notre Dame and Northwestern, for example.

this year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/?whichCycle=0910
last year:
http://wm.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/08 ... Cycle=0910

[SAE]

Any guesses as to when we'll see some DP movement?

[ryguy]

Any guesses as to when we'll see some DP movement?

None what so ever. Been dp since 1/7. lsat 169/3.4x. Dec. retake. Go figure.

[SAE]

Any guesses as to when we'll see some DP movement?

None what so ever. Been dp since 1/7. lsat 169/3.4x. Dec. retake. Go figure.

Looks like it was around 3/20 last year and virtually all decisions have been wl's and dings...

[Rowinguy2009]

Anyone else get the letter with class of 09 employment stats? I know those stats can be kinda fudgy, but it looks like they did a heck of a lot better than I would have expected.

[jwrit07]

Anyone else get the letter with class of 09 employment stats? I know those stats can be kinda fudgy, but it looks like they did a heck of a lot better than I would have expected.

Yea, I received the employment statistics packet yesterday as well. For 2009 W&M purported to have a median starting salary of $140,000 in the private sector with over 70% reporting if I'm not mistaken. Seems to the contrary of what I have been hearing from people on TLS who attend W&M now.

Anybody else interpret the stats as I did? Can anyone shed some additional insight if possible? It appears their 2009 employment numbers may have been better then their 2008's.. I just want to be sure I'm understanding this right....

[gymboree]

Any guesses as to when we'll see some DP movement?

None what so ever. Been dp since 1/7. lsat 169/3.4x. Dec. retake. Go figure.

that's nothing... I've been DP since 11/2. So, let me ask the group - what do you think it does for a school in terms of rankings:

a) an applicant withdrawing before the school renders a decision?

or,

b) an applicant waiting for the decision?

I can't decide if I want to wait this out just because I paid my money and I want a decision, or whether I should just withdraw and hope that they can't then just "use" me to jockey USNWR "selectivity" statistics. Irritated with W&M. 4 months at DP???? Really????

[chinagator]

I was really surprised by these numbers as well. It's certainly comforting, but according to the placement numbers for 09, only 42 out of 193 grads ended up in nlj250 firms.

[wired]

There is definitely some gaming going on. I love William and Mary and I will almost certainly attend there, but it is safe to assume that the 24% who did not report salary information are below the private firm median. $140k is more likely the top quarter of the class as opposed to the median.

[danidancer]

Withdrew my acceptance today, freeing up a spot and $$. Good luck to everyone still waiting!

[2010law]

I took a quick look at the W&M employment paperwork and I agree with "wired".
I think that if the 24% were to be included, the #'s would most likely go down.
Don't forget the #'s are being self reported by the grads and they may not be totally accurate
-----
I actually called a few of the larger (biglaw) firms listed and actually obtained a fair amount of information. I spoke with 5 firms and they were pretty much in agreement about the following:
to get hired / get the salaries mentioned, you need to go to a top school (they all seemed to agree that W&M fit the bill). You need to be in the top 1/3 or so of the class. Working for the firm as a summer hire after 2L could give you an inside track at getting hired if there is an spot when you graduate (but if you suck as a summer hire, it could keep you from ever getting hired). The higher end salaries tend to go to new hires that have medical, accounting, engineering, etc. backgrounds
Law review / Journals will help in that they will help you polish your writing style- but not just because you put it in your resume. 4 of the firms gave salary "ranges" for new hires and they were all between 75-90K to start.

[Veritas]

WD today, GL everyone!

[UF Gators]

WD today, GL everyone!

[wired]

2010 are you a 0L, 1L, or 3L? ( I think I saw in another thread you said you were already at W&M.)

If so, are you doing a fellowship?

[Veritas]

WD today, GL everyone!

it's ok!!

ps, why have you fallen off the face of the earth?

[UF Gators]

WD today, GL everyone!

it's ok!!

ps, why have you fallen off the face of the earth?

General depression and hatred of my life.

[Padimud]

Does anyone have a sense for how demanding the Graduate Fellowship is? One thing that is holding me back from enrolling is fears that the 10 hours dedicated might make a dent in my efforts to achieve while there. . . Any thoughts?