Columbia c/o 2018 Applicants (2014-2015 cycle) Forum

[jimmymac]

I'm at/near 75ths, was held yesterday, withdrew after receiving the email. For personal reasons would only attend C over H with a Hamilton, and pretty clear that wasn't going to happen. Best of luck to everyone waiting!

[tk17]

I'm in via snail mail last night, postmarked late last week. Complete early November. LSAT>75, GPA<25 (<< not good enough to yield protect ).

I came home to find the letter, got really excited, got on TLS to share the news, and then saw that terrible wave of holds. Sorry to everyone who got the bad news, and best of luck to you all moving forward.

[Indy16]

I'm at/near 75ths, was held yesterday, withdrew after receiving the email. For personal reasons would only attend C over H with a Hamilton, and pretty clear that wasn't going to happen. Best of luck to everyone waiting!

Congrats on H and sorry to hear about C

[kadyevna]

I went through the c/o 2017 thread and the first held admittee received her decision on 4/15. But almost all held applicants were put on reserve, including definite YP victims. Guys, I'm not very optimistic about this.

nooooo

is this true? someone verifies this plz? why do you do this to me dear columbia (

Thanks for the vote of confidence and trust.

Yeah, looks like he's right. Not sure there was even one person in that wave that got accepted.

God, that's disappointing.

I saw two people get acceptances: April 15 and April 16. Then a ton of reserves. It looked like most of those were YP as well, and I think most had written a LOCI. Suffice to say: I'm not optimistic at all. I'll write a LOCI, but I'm not holding much hope.

I'm sorry ( just a little overwhelmed, i'm sure your point is valid

[90convoy]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in YP'ing people. I mean who cares about yield???

[Hand]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in YP'ing people. I mean who cares about yield???

USNWR does, among others

[js1663]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in YP'ing people. I mean who cares about yield???

From my understanding it's more about keeping the acceptance rate low - if they decide that of the 1200 people they normally accept there are 300 who are obviously not gonna attend and thus accepting them would be a waste, they can reduce their acceptance rate from around 20% (or w/e it was last year) to 15%. This then has the benefit of potentially helping them in the rankings if they are really close to another school as I believe the acceptance rate plays a minor role. In addition, it also makes the school look more prestigious and and exclusive.

[wonka]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in YP'ing people. I mean who cares about yield???

From my understanding it's more about keeping the acceptance rate low - if they decide that of the 1200 people they normally accept there are 300 who are obviously not gonna attend and thus accepting them would be a waste, they can reduce their acceptance rate from around 20% (or w/e it was last year) to 15%. This then has the benefit of potentially helping them in the rankings if they are really close to another school as I believe the acceptance rate plays a minor role. In addition, it also makes the school look more prestigious and and exclusive.

there's got to be an element of managing class size, too. offer a space to everyone with qualifying numbers and theoretically you could end up with exponentially more enrollment than you can handle. offer only to the highest stats and you risk a tiny class...seems like a tough game for everyone.

that said, i don't understand the amount of such highly qualified people with why columbias and good LOCIs being placed on reserve

[Clemenceau]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in YP'ing people. I mean who cares about yield???

From my understanding it's more about keeping the acceptance rate low - if they decide that of the 1200 people they normally accept there are 300 who are obviously not gonna attend and thus accepting them would be a waste, they can reduce their acceptance rate from around 20% (or w/e it was last year) to 15%. This then has the benefit of potentially helping them in the rankings if they are really close to another school as I believe the acceptance rate plays a minor role. In addition, it also makes the school look more prestigious and and exclusive.

Correct. Furthermore, admitted students cost money. Reviewing finaid apps, offering merit aid, space at asw, mailings, etc etc etc. It all costs a law school time and money. ~1000 kids are gonna go to yhs this year. Cls doesn't have the resources to wine and dine them all. If you're held and really want cls, the ball is in your court.

[nosocat]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in YP'ing people. I mean who cares about yield???

From my understanding it's more about keeping the acceptance rate low - if they decide that of the 1200 people they normally accept there are 300 who are obviously not gonna attend and thus accepting them would be a waste, they can reduce their acceptance rate from around 20% (or w/e it was last year) to 15%. This then has the benefit of potentially helping them in the rankings if they are really close to another school as I believe the acceptance rate plays a minor role. In addition, it also makes the school look more prestigious and and exclusive.

Correct. Furthermore, admitted students cost money. Reviewing finaid apps, offering merit aid, space at asw, mailings, etc etc etc. It all costs a law school time and money. ~1000 kids are gonna go to yhs this year. Cls doesn't have the resources to wine and dine them all. If you're held and really want cls, the ball is in your court.

Good points. Way to put yourself in their shoes.

[Mack.Hambleton]

I'm sorry, but I don't see the point in YP'ing people. I mean who cares about yield???

From my understanding it's more about keeping the acceptance rate low - if they decide that of the 1200 people they normally accept there are 300 who are obviously not gonna attend and thus accepting them would be a waste, they can reduce their acceptance rate from around 20% (or w/e it was last year) to 15%. This then has the benefit of potentially helping them in the rankings if they are really close to another school as I believe the acceptance rate plays a minor role. In addition, it also makes the school look more prestigious and and exclusive.

Correct. Furthermore, admitted students cost money. Reviewing finaid apps, offering merit aid, space at asw, mailings, etc etc etc. It all costs a law school time and money. ~1000 kids are gonna go to yhs this year. Cls doesn't have the resources to wine and dine them all. If you're held and really want cls, the ball is in your court.

the problem is that NYU apparently does have the resources to do it.. and chicago.. and others

[nickhalden]

If you're held and really want cls, the ball is in your court.

Last year seems to indicate this is nearly impossible. Decisions for held candidates won't come until mid to late April, at which point they already know what their class will be. I would guess they'll cherry pick from the hold pile to shore up medians and 75ths as necessary. I'm not holding my breath.

[tk17]

Spivey thinks this year will likely be better:

Mike and Karen,

As you might already know, Columbia just "held" a number of applicants today. From the TLS thread, it seems like many of these applicants have one (or more) numbers over the median. Also, the letter provides instructions to submit a LOCI (whereas Columbia usually discourages pending applicants from submitting them). Thus, the "hold" wave seems to have been done for yield protection. I may be wrong, but this cycle seems to be the first time that a school so highly ranked has practiced yield protection.

I know you don't like to comment on specific schools, but I was wondering what your thoughts were on the growing YP trend. Is YP good for applicants? For schools? Should the value that yield measures (i.e., selectivity) be a factor in law school rankings?

Apologies if you've already answered this question in a post or blog, but I think it's a pretty interesting development in law school admissions.

Well, to be fair CLS did some YP last cycle via interviews, and have done so already this cycle. But this was a surprisingly large batch and it does look like they aren't soft pedaling it anymore but diving full into that game. Which likely also means they will need to admit more "held" applicants -- so I would put great care into the LOCI and contact with them going forward.

GL!

[Clemenceau]

If you're held and really want cls, the ball is in your court.

Last year seems to indicate this is nearly impossible. Decisions for held candidates won't come until mid to late April, at which point they already know what their class will be. I would guess they'll cherry pick from the hold pile to shore up medians and 75ths as necessary. I'm not holding my breath.

I'll admit ignorance on the past effectiveness of loci and visits once being held. By saying ball is in your court I didn't mean to imply that you'll get accepted simply if you want to.

I stick to my statement about the marginal costs of admitting applicants with yhs numbers. Not necessarily defending the practice because I think it does cause undue stress.

[kadyevna]

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[LawBron James]

If you're held and really want cls, the ball is in your court.

Last year seems to indicate this is nearly impossible. Decisions for held candidates won't come until mid to late April, at which point they already know what their class will be. I would guess they'll cherry pick from the hold pile to shore up medians and 75ths as necessary. I'm not holding my breath.

That just seems like a bad strategy, though. Picking applicants off the WL works for HYS, because those applicants are generally willing to drop everything and go to those schools after getting off the WL. I can't imagine that Columbia's YP candidates will react in the same way to a late acceptance unless it's coming with a Butler/Hamilton.

[paragonloop]

I'm in via snail mail last night, postmarked late last week. Complete early November. LSAT>75, GPA<25 (<< not good enough to yield protect ).

I came home to find the letter, got really excited, got on TLS to share the news, and then saw that terrible wave of holds. Sorry to everyone who got the bad news, and best of luck to you all moving forward.

Guess I've got to continue obsessively checking my mailbox? Not sure why they're sending out decisions to domestic applicants both via snail mail and email.

[w0w]

If you're held and really want cls, the ball is in your court.

Last year seems to indicate this is nearly impossible. Decisions for held candidates won't come until mid to late April, at which point they already know what their class will be. I would guess they'll cherry pick from the hold pile to shore up medians and 75ths as necessary. I'm not holding my breath.

That just seems like a bad strategy, though. Picking applicants off the WL works for HYS, because those applicants are generally willing to drop everything and go to those schools after getting off the WL. I can't imagine that Columbia's YP candidates will react in the same way to a late acceptance unless it's coming with a Butler/Hamilton.

For real tho, Columbia ain't no Harvard.

[nickhalden]

That just seems like a bad strategy, though. Picking applicants off the WL works for HYS, because those applicants are generally willing to drop everything and go to those schools after getting off the WL. I can't imagine that Columbia's YP candidates will react in the same way to a late acceptance unless it's coming with a Butler/Hamilton.

I'm just going off last year's cycle, which apparently worked out well for Columbia. Haters gonna hate, but Columbia apparently has a winning formula for increasing medians and they're gonna shake it off shake it off. They're probably more likely to accept a held candidate that is above median but below 75ths than a double 75th.

[LawBron James]

That just seems like a bad strategy, though. Picking applicants off the WL works for HYS, because those applicants are generally willing to drop everything and go to those schools after getting off the WL. I can't imagine that Columbia's YP candidates will react in the same way to a late acceptance unless it's coming with a Butler/Hamilton.

I'm just going off last year's cycle, which apparently worked out well for Columbia. Haters gonna hate, but Columbia apparently has a winning formula for increasing medians and they're gonna shake it off shake it off. They're probably more likely to accept a held candidate that is above median but below 75ths than a double 75th.

Hey, I'm no expert here so I'm just going off my first impression, and I'll totally admit I'm speaking from a place of bitterness, but they do seem like they're YP'ing harder than usual here. I'm sure they'll be just fine without us, but I do think they are going to miss out on a few good, attainable applicants because of this.

[kadyevna]

That just seems like a bad strategy, though. Picking applicants off the WL works for HYS, because those applicants are generally willing to drop everything and go to those schools after getting off the WL. I can't imagine that Columbia's YP candidates will react in the same way to a late acceptance unless it's coming with a Butler/Hamilton.

I'm just going off last year's cycle, which apparently worked out well for Columbia. Haters gonna hate, but Columbia apparently has a winning formula for increasing medians and they're gonna shake it off shake it off. They're probably more likely to accept a held candidate that is above median but below 75ths than a double 75th.

Hey, I'm no expert here so I'm just going off my first impression, and I'll totally admit I'm speaking from a place of bitterness, but they do seem like they're YP'ing harder than usual here. I'm sure they'll be just fine without us, but I do think they are going to miss out on a few good, attainable applicants because of this.

same here, hey james, seems we have a very similar cycle.. there is an old saying, cleverness may overreach itself, we'll see how things play out for Columbia

[nickhalden]

That just seems like a bad strategy, though. Picking applicants off the WL works for HYS, because those applicants are generally willing to drop everything and go to those schools after getting off the WL. I can't imagine that Columbia's YP candidates will react in the same way to a late acceptance unless it's coming with a Butler/Hamilton.

I'm just going off last year's cycle, which apparently worked out well for Columbia. Haters gonna hate, but Columbia apparently has a winning formula for increasing medians and they're gonna shake it off shake it off. They're probably more likely to accept a held candidate that is above median but below 75ths than a double 75th.

Hey, I'm no expert here so I'm just going off my first impression, and I'll totally admit I'm speaking from a place of bitterness, but they do seem like they're YP'ing harder than usual here. I'm sure they'll be just fine without us, but I do think they are going to miss out on a few good, attainable applicants because of this.

Oh hell yea I agree. They integrated YP into their process last year and saw how successful it was, so it makes sense that they're more aggressive with it this year. I think held Double 75ths are probably SOL though. It isn't personal, it is just a business decision of where to allocate resources.

[speakingTheTruth]

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in response to the unedited version:

This. Absolutely this.

As LSAT:75+/GPA:75++, WE, stellar softs, ivy that literally had their building's internet go out during the H interview, I was as good as Columbia's had they only handled my application professionally. Here I am looking for roommates in Chicago while Columbia takes their time with an application they've had their hands on for seven months.

Law students, like most other rational beings, prefer to minimize risk. We like to find good roommates, secure a convenient apartment, read up, and begin planning for how we would like to approach law school and our 1L+ summer several months out. Columbia could have stronger matriculants if their offers didn't come with the lite dose of "you have to throw your clothes in a suitcase and move into an NYC hotel with no plan" poison pills.

When I submitted, Columbia (first choice) >> H in my book (personal reasons). However, after this admissions experience...

[Skool]

If you're held and really want cls, the ball is in your court.

Last year seems to indicate this is nearly impossible. Decisions for held candidates won't come until mid to late April, at which point they already know what their class will be. I would guess they'll cherry pick from the hold pile to shore up medians and 75ths as necessary. I'm not holding my breath.

That just seems like a bad strategy, though. Picking applicants off the WL works for HYS, because those applicants are generally willing to drop everything and go to those schools after getting off the WL. I can't imagine that Columbia's YP candidates will react in the same way to a late acceptance unless it's coming with a Butler/Hamilton.

For real tho, Columbia ain't no Harvard.

There's plenty of cats who would sell their grandmothers into white slavery for a little Morningside Heights preftige, and plenty of them are at median. Let's keep it real.

[kadyevna]

.

in response to the unedited version:

This. Absolutely this.

As LSAT:75+/GPA:75++, WE, stellar softs, ivy that literally had their building's internet go out during the H interview, I was as good as Columbia's had they only handled my application professionally. Here I am looking for roommates in Chicago while Columbia takes their time with an application they've had their hands on for seven months.

Law students, like most other rational beings, prefer to minimize risk. We like to find good roommates, secure a convenient apartment, read up, and begin planning for how we would like to approach law school and our 1L+ summer several months out. Columbia could have stronger matriculants if their offers didn't come with the lite dose of "you have to throw your clothes in a suitcase and move into an NYC hotel with no plan" poison pills.

When I submitted, Columbia (first choice) >> H in my book (personal reasons). However, after this admissions experience...