Notre Dame Law School c/o 2018 (2014-2015 applicants) Forum

[PattyCake]

Just had my first date change since I went complete. How many date changes have others had before a decision was rendered?

I think they say 6-8 weeks total since first complete (i.e. that is the first time it goes into review).
I was waiting and waiting since mid feb and getting annoyed, but I have now found my zen and totally dont care.

Really? My status checker says 3-5 weeks. Shouldn't have gotten my hopes up for a quick decision, I guess

[magjag]

Just had my first date change since I went complete. How many date changes have others had before a decision was rendered?

I think they say 6-8 weeks total since first complete (i.e. that is the first time it goes into review).
I was waiting and waiting since mid feb and getting annoyed, but I have now found my zen and totally dont care.

Really? My status checker says 3-5 weeks. Shouldn't have gotten my hopes up for a quick decision, I guess

maybe because you have better scores? my status checker says that your app is under review and blah blah what not.

[PattyCake]

Just had my first date change since I went complete. How many date changes have others had before a decision was rendered?

I think they say 6-8 weeks total since first complete (i.e. that is the first time it goes into review).
I was waiting and waiting since mid feb and getting annoyed, but I have now found my zen and totally dont care.

Really? My status checker says 3-5 weeks. Shouldn't have gotten my hopes up for a quick decision, I guess

maybe because you have better scores? my status checker says that your app is under review and blah blah what not.

Or possibly because I didn't go complete until later and they have a better fix on their applicant pool now. I had to wait for my feb LSAT but they're still a reach for me even with my better score.

[Bond]

I am accepted to ND but now slightly concerned about their drop to 26th and William and Mary's (who I am also accepted to) gain of 9 (can anyone explain this?) spots to 23. Do rankings even matter outside of the T14? It seems like the ranks are too volatile to actually cite as a reason for attending a school...

Also, what do people think about using this drop as a mechanism for negotiating scholarships? I received two nice scholarships from W&M and BU, but nothing from ND...

Rankings are bullshit, bro. ND's big law rate is up to 28%. Their full time bar passaged required job rate is now up to 71%. Highest numbers in years.

Great news. My momentary freak out has passed. Are you going to try negotiating through email? I am going to the ASW so I am wondering if negotiation in person is a good or bad idea...

MotH is right. You should use LawSchoolTransparency and NALP reports to evaluate schools for employment outcomes, not the US News Rankings. I think you'll find that ND graduates have objectively better outcomes than W&M graduates.

[RollingthruLawSchool]

Any thoughts on the significance of the ATL rankings?

I personally like the Above the Law methodology better. The ATL methodology, I feel, focuses more on post-graduation success, whereas the US News methodology overemphasizes LSAT and undergrad GPA (25%). I particularly like ATL's emphasis on job quality (30%), employment (30%), and ability to pay debt (15%). However, if you are trying to evaluate the school's reputation, it would be best to look at the NLJ 250. These firms are highly competitive and need to recruit the best and brightest students. It's interesting how these can come to drastically different numbers – US news #26, ATL #18, NLJ 250 #20.

[Mansa]

Decision made 3/11/14

Outstanding amount due for the seat deposit slots. Should I take this as an acceptance in transit?

[ohhdear]

Decision made 3/11/14

Outstanding amount due for the seat deposit slots. Should I take this as an acceptance in transit?

Yes! Congrats!

[TirantMartorell]

I am accepted to ND but now slightly concerned about their drop to 26th and William and Mary's (who I am also accepted to) gain of 9 (can anyone explain this?) spots to 23. Do rankings even matter outside of the T14? It seems like the ranks are too volatile to actually cite as a reason for attending a school...

Also, what do people think about using this drop as a mechanism for negotiating scholarships? I received two nice scholarships from W&M and BU, but nothing from ND...

Rankings are bullshit, bro. ND's big law rate is up to 28%. Their full time bar passaged required job rate is now up to 71%. Highest numbers in years.

Great news. My momentary freak out has passed. Are you going to try negotiating through email? I am going to the ASW so I am wondering if negotiation in person is a good or bad idea...

MotH is right. You should use LawSchoolTransparency and NALP reports to evaluate schools for employment outcomes, not the US News Rankings. I think you'll find that ND graduates have objectively better outcomes than W&M graduates.

The posters above are correct. A 3 point drop in rankings from 23 to 26 isn't really that significant for ND if you look at the big picture. ND has historically been mostly between 22-26 (but I think it's been as low as 28 and as high as 20). 26 is within ND's historical rank range. I would put greater weight on employment outcomes and the ATL rankings. ND's big law placement for 2013 is up above 28% and when added to federal clerkships you are looking at about 34% of the class with very desirable outcomes. If you think Virginia is where you want to end up, then W&M could be a better option, but if you want to end up anywhere else in the country, ND is objectively better than W&M. Also, W&M's 9 point gain now puts then well above their historical rank (which usually is around 30). I'd be surprised if they can keep that rank in the years to come.

[yossarian]

The posters above are correct. A 3 point drop in rankings from 23 to 26 isn't really that significant for ND if you look at the big picture. ND has historically been mostly between 22-26 (but I think it's been as low as 28 and as high as 20). 26 is within ND's historical rank range. I would put greater weight on employment outcomes and the ATL rankings. ND's big law placement for 2013 is up above 28% and when added to federal clerkships you are looking at about 34% of the class with very desirable outcomes. If you think Virginia is where you want to end up, then W&M could be a better option, but if you want to end up anywhere else in the country, ND is objectively better than W&M. Also, W&M's 9 point gain now puts then well above their historical rank (which usually is around 30). I'd be surprised if they can keep that rank in the years to come.

Yes. But also, no. ND places well w/ ties from my understanding. That is, despite good CA placement, people going to CA already have ties there. ND is not the school to go anywhere except Chi, Indiana, some other places in the midwest, maybe NY unless you already have ties. Right?

[kobe1020]

Anyone tried to use offers from higher ranked school (but with LESS scholarship) to negotiate with ND yet?? Any success stories|?

[ls23]

The posters above are correct. A 3 point drop in rankings from 23 to 26 isn't really that significant for ND if you look at the big picture. ND has historically been mostly between 22-26 (but I think it's been as low as 28 and as high as 20). 26 is within ND's historical rank range. I would put greater weight on employment outcomes and the ATL rankings. ND's big law placement for 2013 is up above 28% and when added to federal clerkships you are looking at about 34% of the class with very desirable outcomes. If you think Virginia is where you want to end up, then W&M could be a better option, but if you want to end up anywhere else in the country, ND is objectively better than W&M. Also, W&M's 9 point gain now puts then well above their historical rank (which usually is around 30). I'd be surprised if they can keep that rank in the years to come.

Yes. But also, no. ND places well w/ ties from my understanding. That is, despite good CA placement, people going to CA already have ties there. ND is not the school to go anywhere except Chi, Indiana, some other places in the midwest, maybe NY unless you already have ties. Right?

Most schools outside T-14 have poor portability in markets you don't have ties to. ND isn't the exception, but its immensely loyal undergrad and law school alumni base gives you a better chance than most. Also, the CDO is good with helping you establish ties like working in the area during your 1L year and networking with alumni to establish ties. ND is strongest in Chicago, Ohio, Indiana, Pennsylvania, and most of the midwest. But it also places much better than most schools in its range outside of the midwest because of its alumni base and lay prestige.

[TirantMartorell]

The posters above are correct. A 3 point drop in rankings from 23 to 26 isn't really that significant for ND if you look at the big picture. ND has historically been mostly between 22-26 (but I think it's been as low as 28 and as high as 20). 26 is within ND's historical rank range. I would put greater weight on employment outcomes and the ATL rankings. ND's big law placement for 2013 is up above 28% and when added to federal clerkships you are looking at about 34% of the class with very desirable outcomes. If you think Virginia is where you want to end up, then W&M could be a better option, but if you want to end up anywhere else in the country, ND is objectively better than W&M. Also, W&M's 9 point gain now puts then well above their historical rank (which usually is around 30). I'd be surprised if they can keep that rank in the years to come.

Yes. But also, no. ND places well w/ ties from my understanding. That is, despite good CA placement, people going to CA already have ties there. ND is not the school to go anywhere except Chi, Indiana, some other places in the midwest, maybe NY unless you already have ties. Right?

Actually, wrong. I never said ND was the school to go if you want to have the best chances of ending up anywhere. Read my post carefully and you will see I am comparing ND with W&M If your goal is to be anywhere other than Virginia, you have much better odds coming from ND than from W&M ties or no ties. If you want the best chances to work anywhere you should go to HYS. But let's be real. The people who can get into HYS aren't the same ones trying to decide between ND and W&M.

[hopeful 0L]

The posters above are correct. A 3 point drop in rankings from 23 to 26 isn't really that significant for ND if you look at the big picture. ND has historically been mostly between 22-26 (but I think it's been as low as 28 and as high as 20). 26 is within ND's historical rank range. I would put greater weight on employment outcomes and the ATL rankings. ND's big law placement for 2013 is up above 28% and when added to federal clerkships you are looking at about 34% of the class with very desirable outcomes. If you think Virginia is where you want to end up, then W&M could be a better option, but if you want to end up anywhere else in the country, ND is objectively better than W&M. Also, W&M's 9 point gain now puts then well above their historical rank (which usually is around 30). I'd be surprised if they can keep that rank in the years to come.

Yes. But also, no. ND places well w/ ties from my understanding. That is, despite good CA placement, people going to CA already have ties there. ND is not the school to go anywhere except Chi, Indiana, some other places in the midwest, maybe NY unless you already have ties. Right?

Notre Dame is huge in the Northeast. Great choice for someone from the NY-NJ-CT tri-state area, especially if you want to work in the city.

[Mansa]

Received an acceptance email today. Decision Made 3/11/14 with seat deposit charges.

GPA above median, LSAT below, really unique softs, and URM. Excited, thankful, and blessed!

Interesting that the status checker says admissions will not submit a decision via email when this apparently isn't the case.

[UMich11]

The posters above are correct. A 3 point drop in rankings from 23 to 26 isn't really that significant for ND if you look at the big picture. ND has historically been mostly between 22-26 (but I think it's been as low as 28 and as high as 20). 26 is within ND's historical rank range. I would put greater weight on employment outcomes and the ATL rankings. ND's big law placement for 2013 is up above 28% and when added to federal clerkships you are looking at about 34% of the class with very desirable outcomes. If you think Virginia is where you want to end up, then W&M could be a better option, but if you want to end up anywhere else in the country, ND is objectively better than W&M. Also, W&M's 9 point gain now puts then well above their historical rank (which usually is around 30). I'd be surprised if they can keep that rank in the years to come.

Yes. But also, no. ND places well w/ ties from my understanding. That is, despite good CA placement, people going to CA already have ties there. ND is not the school to go anywhere except Chi, Indiana, some other places in the midwest, maybe NY unless you already have ties. Right?

Notre Dame is huge in the Northeast. Great choice for someone from the NY-NJ-CT tri-state area, especially if you want to work in the city.

The ND Alum network will help immensely. A number of NJ and Vault firms have ND grads (UG/Law/both/or subway alumni) who are partners/MPs and will bend over backwards to meet with you. Head of Jones Day is ND grad and we have a number of people working there this summer (1L,2L and 3Ls) also NYC/Boston/Chi/LA/Tex is a big market for ND. You will compete in those markets with the typical groups HYS/MPV/Duke, etc. But reaching out to an ND alum will help get your foot in the door.

If you're still struggling with a choice, reach out to some ND alum at your target law firms/Target Markets right now and ask for a meeting. Get their input on the ND network in the legal market and start your networking early. It helped me pick ND (in addition to the sizable scholarship) over MPVD and riding the WL at HYS.

[magjag]

I see decision rendered and deposit numbers!

[Lebrarian_Booker]

Anyone going to ASW? Just submitted my travel stipend request. Will only go if it's approved. Flights are $500 for me, which is pretty god damn steep.

[John Everyman]

I see decision rendered and deposit numbers!

Way to go Mag, congratulations!

[CJ2017]

Anyone going to ASW? Just submitted my travel stipend request. Will only go if it's approved. Flights are $500 for me, which is pretty god damn steep.

I am going! Flights were $700 for me, but I did get a travel stipend.

[Lebrarian_Booker]

Anyone going to ASW? Just submitted my travel stipend request. Will only go if it's approved. Flights are $500 for me, which is pretty god damn steep.

I am going! Flights were $700 for me, but I did get a travel stipend.

Jesus. Where are you flying from? Are you flying to Chicago or straight to South Bend?

[CJ2017]

Anyone going to ASW? Just submitted my travel stipend request. Will only go if it's approved. Flights are $500 for me, which is pretty god damn steep.

I am going! Flights were $700 for me, but I did get a travel stipend.

Jesus. Where are you flying from? Are you flying to Chicago or straight to South Bend?

I am flying from Boise, Idaho to Chicago then taking the train. So I am basically on the other side of the country.

[Banshee]

Decision Made and seat deposits showing....so we are thinking this is a good sign, yes?

[Lebrarian_Booker]

Decision Made and seat deposits showing....so we are thinking this is a good sign, yes?

If the seat deposit exists,
You're among the admits.

[Kanye West]

Anyone going to ASW? Just submitted my travel stipend request. Will only go if it's approved. Flights are $500 for me, which is pretty god damn steep.

I am going! Flights were $700 for me, but I did get a travel stipend.

Jesus. Where are you flying from? Are you flying to Chicago or straight to South Bend?

I am flying from Boise, Idaho to Chicago then taking the train. So I am basically on the other side of the country.

Flying from Miami, trip was $650+ for me -.-

[palbatron]

Just wanted to confirm with others, but the amount given in the admissions letter for scholarships is the per year amount correct? For example it says:

"Notre Dame Law School is pleased to offer you a $XX,XXX scholarship to be applied towards your tuition annually."

I talked to another one of my friends who had great numbers and it seemed that the amount was representative of yearly numbers not overall. Just double checking.