ASU c/o 2019 Applicants (2015-2016) Forum

[Good Guy Gaud]

Hey all,

I applied via the binding O'Connor merit and my letter of intent is due before I've had the chance to negotiate scholarships. Do I lose the illusion of bargaining power by signing before negotiation? I am serious about saying that I won't attend this cycle if the scholarship offer isn't generous enough, but then I would feel disingenuous that I signed the letter of intent. Do they care? The initial offer is close to full, but not actually full. Who did you guys communicate with when negotiating?

You were admitted under the binding O'Connor Merit Scholars Program? Based on the sample Binding Admissions Contract on the ASU website (https://www.law.asu.edu/node/1573) I'd say you don't have much of a leg to stand on; by applying and being accepted through that program, you've already agreed to attend, regardless of your financial aid outcomes. I mean, it specifically says "If admitted under the O’Connor Merit Scholars program, I will enroll at ASU Law in August 2016." I'd take that to mean they do care.

Just out of curiosity, what would be "generous enough"? You've already got close to a full scholarship and since you've already committed to going it seems unlikely that they'd negotiate further.

I don't think it would be inappropriate to at least try to negotiate scholarship amounts. OFJ agreed he/she would attend if accepted, sure, but I don't believe that would preclude them from trying to get a better offer. They're not going to rescind you offer if you try to negotiate but as previously alluded to, your bargaining power has been diminished.

Whether or not you can actually decline to attend is a different, stickier situation. I imagine they can't compel you to attend even if you signed the binding admission form but it would presumably cause problems if you chose to attend another law school (in 2016) instead of ASU.

[SlithyTove]

Hey all,

I applied via the binding O'Connor merit and my letter of intent is due before I've had the chance to negotiate scholarships. Do I lose the illusion of bargaining power by signing before negotiation? I am serious about saying that I won't attend this cycle if the scholarship offer isn't generous enough, but then I would feel disingenuous that I signed the letter of intent. Do they care? The initial offer is close to full, but not actually full. Who did you guys communicate with when negotiating?

You were admitted under the binding O'Connor Merit Scholars Program? Based on the sample Binding Admissions Contract on the ASU website (https://www.law.asu.edu/node/1573) I'd say you don't have much of a leg to stand on; by applying and being accepted through that program, you've already agreed to attend, regardless of your financial aid outcomes. I mean, it specifically says "If admitted under the O’Connor Merit Scholars program, I will enroll at ASU Law in August 2016." I'd take that to mean they do care.

Just out of curiosity, what would be "generous enough"? You've already got close to a full scholarship and since you've already committed to going it seems unlikely that they'd negotiate further.

I don't think it would be inappropriate to at least try to negotiate scholarship amounts. OFJ agreed he/she would attend if accepted, sure, but I don't believe that would preclude them from trying to get a better offer. They're not going to rescind you offer if you try to negotiate but as previously alluded to, your bargaining power has been diminished.

Whether or not you can actually decline to attend is a different, stickier situation. I imagine they can't compel you to attend even if you signed the binding admission form but it would presumably cause problems if you chose to attend another law school (in 2016) instead of ASU.

Good points. I didn't mean to say that you shouldn't at least try to negotiate but that you don't have as much leverage since you've already committed to attending. Still definitely worth a shot but threatening not to attend this cycle when you already committed to it seems like it would hurt your chances more than it would help them.

[Good Guy Gaud]

I knew what you meant just wanted to clarify it for OFJ in the case they misunderstood. Your advice was on point.

[SlithyTove]

I knew what you meant just wanted to clarify it for OFJ in the case they misunderstood. Your advice was on point.

No worries, just wanted to clarify my point. By the way, thanks for your advice a few weeks back about the forum with Dean Sylvester. It ended up being really informative and you're right, he seems like an great guy. He talked a lot about creating new classes when people request them, is that something you've seen happen? And how do you like having practicing lawyers as professors? The whole model of ASU is a little different than anywhere else but from what I've seen, I like it.

[Good Guy Gaud]

I knew what you meant just wanted to clarify it for OFJ in the case they misunderstood. Your advice was on point.

No worries, just wanted to clarify my point. By the way, thanks for your advice a few weeks back about the forum with Dean Sylvester. It ended up being really informative and you're right, he seems like an great guy. He talked a lot about creating new classes when people request them, is that something you've seen happen? And how do you like having practicing lawyers as professors? The whole model of ASU is a little different than anywhere else but from what I've seen, I like it.

Happy to help.

Yea, I know of at least two classes (I think) that were created as a result of student requests. There won't be basket weaving classes or anything like that, but if enough students show interest and the topic is relevant to the practice of law, I think they will listen to any proposals.

practicing lawyers as professors is legit. The classes won't be as ideological as they otherwise could be, but you get all the practical advice that will actually help you in practice (eg., "sure this case says this, but I've never seen it work in practice. Your best bet is to try xyz."). Of course, it all depends on the course. Constitutional law can be taught by a 'pure professor' just fine but for a course like class actions or something like that, having a professor who actually lives and breathes the stuff is invaluable. The biggest benefit IMO is that they are in your local market and are currently practicing, so if you want to get in touch with attorneys in their particular field (and even elsewhere) they tend to be able to make those sorts of connections happen.

[SlithyTove]

I knew what you meant just wanted to clarify it for OFJ in the case they misunderstood. Your advice was on point.

No worries, just wanted to clarify my point. By the way, thanks for your advice a few weeks back about the forum with Dean Sylvester. It ended up being really informative and you're right, he seems like an great guy. He talked a lot about creating new classes when people request them, is that something you've seen happen? And how do you like having practicing lawyers as professors? The whole model of ASU is a little different than anywhere else but from what I've seen, I like it.

Happy to help.

Yea, I know of at least two classes (I think) that were created as a result of student requests. There won't be basket weaving classes or anything like that, but if enough students show interest and the topic is relevant to the practice of law, I think they will listen to any proposals.

practicing lawyers as professors is legit. The classes won't be as ideological as they otherwise could be, but you get all the practical advice that will actually help you in practice (eg., "sure this case says this, but I've never seen it work in practice. Your best bet is to try xyz."). Of course, it all depends on the course. Constitutional law can be taught by a 'pure professor' just fine but for a course like class actions or something like that, having a professor who actually lives and breathes the stuff is invaluable. The biggest benefit IMO is that they are in your local market and are currently practicing, so if you want to get in touch with attorneys in their particular field (and even elsewhere) they tend to be able to make those sorts of connections happen.

That's great to hear. It seems invaluable to have professors who are not only keyed into the current legal situation but who are active in the job market and can help you make connections.

Thanks again! It's so helpful to have someone who attended willing to answer questions. When I get my decision this afternoon (wishful thinking but it's either empty hope or psychosis at this point ) I'm sure I'll have more.

[Shib26]

Should I be expecting anything in the mail? Acceptance was a little over 2 weeks ago now and thought I'd get at least an official admit letter but so far nothing. Not a huge deal but just curious.

[Shib26]

Well I asked one day too soon. Got the acceptance packet in the mail today. Scholly that works out to slightly less than half of OOS tuition over three years, a little less than I would have liked but it's a fair starting point I guess.

[SlithyTove]

Well I asked one day too soon. Got the acceptance packet in the mail today. Scholly that works out to slightly less than half of OOS tuition over three years, a little less than I would have liked but it's a fair starting point I guess.

Wow, that did take a long time. Do you live far away?

On the plus side, based on emails previous posters in this thread received, it sounds like they're open to scholarship negotiation and there's money to be had. I'd love to hear how that process goes for you if you feel like sharing. Good luck!

[Tiggly]

Well I asked one day too soon. Got the acceptance packet in the mail today. Scholly that works out to slightly less than half of OOS tuition over three years, a little less than I would have liked but it's a fair starting point I guess.

Wow, that did take a long time. Do you live far away?

On the plus side, based on emails previous posters in this thread received, it sounds like they're open to scholarship negotiation and there's money to be had. I'd love to hear how that process goes for you if you feel like sharing. Good luck!

Has anyone tried negotiating yet?

[fliptrip]

Well I asked one day too soon. Got the acceptance packet in the mail today. Scholly that works out to slightly less than half of OOS tuition over three years, a little less than I would have liked but it's a fair starting point I guess.

Wow, that did take a long time. Do you live far away?

On the plus side, based on emails previous posters in this thread received, it sounds like they're open to scholarship negotiation and there's money to be had. I'd love to hear how that process goes for you if you feel like sharing. Good luck!

Has anyone tried negotiating yet?

I'm curious about this too. Was underwhelmed by my scholarship offer. I got about a 75% scholarship, which isn't close to what I've gotten from their peer schools...

[Shib26]

Well I asked one day too soon. Got the acceptance packet in the mail today. Scholly that works out to slightly less than half of OOS tuition over three years, a little less than I would have liked but it's a fair starting point I guess.

Wow, that did take a long time. Do you live far away?

On the plus side, based on emails previous posters in this thread received, it sounds like they're open to scholarship negotiation and there's money to be had. I'd love to hear how that process goes for you if you feel like sharing. Good luck!

I'm in Texas, so not that far, at least relative to most of the country at least. I'll definitely update here with how the process goes.

Has anyone tried negotiating yet?

I'm going to give it a shot soon. I retook the LSAT in Feb, score should be back soonish and if it's an improvement then that will give me some ammo. Does anyone have any idea what ASU would consider peer schools for negotiating? I'm still waiting to hear back from the bulk of my applications and the only other offer I have so far within a +/- 5 of ASU is Iowa and not sure that would have much of an impact.

[Good Guy Gaud]

Does anyone have any idea what ASU would consider peer schools for negotiating? I'm still waiting to hear back from the bulk of my applications and the only other offer I have so far within a +/- 5 of ASU is Iowa and not sure that would have much of an impact.

Primarily UofA. Other than UofA, your best bet is to use scholarship offers from higher ranked schools, the higher the better. If Iowa ends up being all you've got, then you work with that. Remember: there's absolutely no shame in trying to negotiate for additional financial aid, so even if it doesn't work at least you can say you've tried.

[Shib26]

Does anyone have any idea what ASU would consider peer schools for negotiating? I'm still waiting to hear back from the bulk of my applications and the only other offer I have so far within a +/- 5 of ASU is Iowa and not sure that would have much of an impact.

Primarily UofA. Other than UofA, your best bet is to use scholarship offers from higher ranked schools, the higher the better. If Iowa ends up being all you've got, then you work with that. Remember: there's absolutely no shame in trying to negotiate for additional financial aid, so even if it doesn't work at least you can say you've tried.

Thanks, that's about what I figured. I did apply to UofA but wound up submitting only about 2 weeks ago so might not have anything from them for a while. I'll see what I can do after I get my February score. I like ASU as it is right now, might just love it if they can offer me a little more.

[fliptrip]

Does anyone have any idea what ASU would consider peer schools for negotiating? I'm still waiting to hear back from the bulk of my applications and the only other offer I have so far within a +/- 5 of ASU is Iowa and not sure that would have much of an impact.

Primarily UofA. Other than UofA, your best bet is to use scholarship offers from higher ranked schools, the higher the better. If Iowa ends up being all you've got, then you work with that. Remember: there's absolutely no shame in trying to negotiate for additional financial aid, so even if it doesn't work at least you can say you've tried.

Good to know...I've got full scholly from UofA, so I'll float that out there and see what happens.

[Good Guy Gaud]

Does anyone have any idea what ASU would consider peer schools for negotiating? I'm still waiting to hear back from the bulk of my applications and the only other offer I have so far within a +/- 5 of ASU is Iowa and not sure that would have much of an impact.

Primarily UofA. Other than UofA, your best bet is to use scholarship offers from higher ranked schools, the higher the better. If Iowa ends up being all you've got, then you work with that. Remember: there's absolutely no shame in trying to negotiate for additional financial aid, so even if it doesn't work at least you can say you've tried.

Good to know...I've got full scholly from UofA, so I'll float that out there and see what happens.

Be prepared. Have total COA numbers, employment numbers, etc.

[Teetime23]

Hi everyone! Got accepted towards the end of last year! ASU is my first choice and I am now in the process of trying to negotiate my scholarship. Has anyone had any success? Thanks!

[oh lawd]

Hi everyone! Got accepted towards the end of last year! ASU is my first choice and I am now in the process of trying to negotiate my scholarship. Has anyone had any success? Thanks!

A little bit. From 60% to 75% in-state tuition. Considering an offer to withdraw all other applications for 100%, maybe even 90% if they reject that. The whole process is going rather slowly

[Teetime23]

Hi everyone! Got accepted towards the end of last year! ASU is my first choice and I am now in the process of trying to negotiate my scholarship. Has anyone had any success? Thanks!

A little bit. From 60% to 75% in-state tuition. Considering an offer to withdraw all other applications for 100%, maybe even 90% if they reject that. The whole process is going rather slowly

Great. Thank you! I emailed admissions about 2 weeks ago and am still waiting for a reply.

[RacheterRaptor]

Hi everyone! Got accepted towards the end of last year! ASU is my first choice and I am now in the process of trying to negotiate my scholarship. Has anyone had any success? Thanks!

I got the email about "more money available", replied, and had a Skype interview with the Dean almost two weeks ago now. She said during the interview she was meeting with the scholarship committee next week and hoped to get back to me right after that. Nothing since then. Anyone who responded to that email get any updated offers yet?

[Good Guy Gaud]

Hi everyone! Got accepted towards the end of last year! ASU is my first choice and I am now in the process of trying to negotiate my scholarship. Has anyone had any success? Thanks!

I got the email about "more money available", replied, and had a Skype interview with the Dean almost two weeks ago now. She said during the interview she was meeting with the scholarship committee next week and hoped to get back to me right after that. Nothing since then. Anyone who responded to that email get any updated offers yet?

Might be worth following up soon.

[steviewonders]

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[Nachoo2019]

Hi all. Checking in. Do you think being an undergrad at ASU currently helps my chance of admission? My numbers are a reach for ASU but I figure I'd give it a shot since I'm already going here

[Nachoo2019]

Hi all. Checking in. Do you think being an undergrad at ASU currently helps my chance of admission? My numbers are a reach for ASU but I figure I'd give it a shot since I'm already going here

[sdickey7]

I submitted my application on 1/17, my application went into review on 1/19, but the status just changed to today's date, 2/29. Has anyone had experience with the current status date changing or how soon the decision came after that?