Vanderbilt c/o 2018 applicants Forum

[arklaw13]

Vandy 2L here

I think part of the problem with the student Q&A thing is that they put people up there who have good outcomes. If you asked me if I regret going here, I'd say absolutely not, but I've had great outcomes. If you asked me if I'd pay sticker to go here, I'd still say hell no. I wouldn't pay sticker for HYS, so that doesn't tell you much anyway.

If any of you have more questions, feel free to post in this thread.

[Hikikomorist]

.

[180kickflip]

I would feel good about coming...even though the student panel dodged my question about whether or not they would pay sticker to attend lol

That was you? Excellent job.

Ty.

Even though I probably won't end up attending vandy, I can definitely see myself going back to Nashville for fun. Did anyone find any good spots for food/drinks?

I probably put on 3-5 pounds this trip, and my favorites were pharmacy (best burger and ice cream float) and edleys (nice ribs and great catfish tacos). I wasn't too impressed with jenis ice cream, but my girl liked it. Pancake pantry was good but maybe not worth the half hour line (which I later heard can be bypassed by getting it to go). Hattie Bs damn hot chicken killed me lol

[BigCityDreams]

Waitlisted today...actually pretty surprised. Was definitely expecting a denial. Is there generally any movement from the waitlist?

[carbo09]

...even though the student panel dodged my question about whether or not they would pay sticker to attend lol

I was a few people down from you when you asked that and the first thing that came to mind was that it was a loaded question. The answer 100% depends on your goals. If your goal is BigLaw and you plan on staying long term then paying sticker may not be a bad thing for you (personally I think that would be crazy regardless). If you're doing PI at a school with a good LRAP then it may not be a bad idea.

Even if they were truthful and said yes or no, I don't think that is an accurate indicator of whether the school is worth attending. Some people are more debt-averse than others, some have parents willing to pay for the COL, some are looking for a mid-size firm with a better work/life balance, etc.

[180kickflip]

...even though the student panel dodged my question about whether or not they would pay sticker to attend lol

I was a few people down from you when you asked that and the first thing that came to mind was that it was a loaded question. The answer 100% depends on your goals. If your goal is BigLaw and you plan on staying long term then paying sticker may not be a bad thing for you (personally I think that would be crazy regardless). If you're doing PI at a school with a good LRAP then it may not be a bad idea.

Even if they were truthful and said yes or no, I don't think that is an accurate indicator of whether the school is worth attending. Some people are more debt-averse than others, some have parents willing to pay for the COL, some are looking for a mid-size firm with a better work/life balance, etc.

Well, I think you can ask loaded questions and still take something valuable away from the way a person responds. More than that though, I didn't ask if vandy was worth attending. I asked if the panelists thought vandy would be worth fully debt financed (not parents paying part, GI bill, counting on LRAP,etc) sticker price for them personally. I think that should be a pretty easy yes or no for most People because it's just based on your personal feelings. I didn't ask anyone to make the call for someone else. It may have seemed that way because of the general "VANDY is great for lots of people" answers, but I asked about them personally.

Really, I asked to see how open/honest they were being and get an idea of their perspective on things. Personally, I can't think of a situation where vandy at 275k or whatever would make sense (biglaw and mid law 100% don't), but the panelists had pretty diverse interests and if one of them had a defensible reason to answer yes, I think it would've been great for a lot of people to hear.

[bretby]

Vandy 2L here

I think part of the problem with the student Q&A thing is that they put people up there who have good outcomes. If you asked me if I regret going here, I'd say absolutely not, but I've had great outcomes. If you asked me if I'd pay sticker to go here, I'd still say hell no. I wouldn't pay sticker for HYS, so that doesn't tell you much anyway.

If any of you have more questions, feel free to post in this thread.

Also, to be fair, the vast majority of people will convince themselves that they are happy with whatever choice they have made. I've talked to students at a number of schools and have asked the debt/prestige question and to a person they said they were happy with their choice, whether that was taking a full ride to a lower-ranked school or paying sticker at the best school they got into. I think it's just human nature. Of course there are people who regret their decision and will say so openly, but I think they are much harder to find, especially at an ASW.

Also, that was a great question and you asked it well. I didn't understand how/why they were confused at first about what "debt-financed" meant.

[inlovewithpiper]

Really, I asked to see how open/honest they were being and get an idea of their perspective on things.

This. I was at last week's ASP and, although I realize that the primary goal of those is to convince people to attend, I felt like a lot of people were incredibly disingenuous. Not the faculty necessarily, but the students. I am not sure what sort of instructions they are given beforehand (if any), but at some points I felt like I was attending a timeshare presentation with the amount of high-pressure "sales" that were being pitched. Not to say this is a bad thing, because of course students are proud of their school and their community and want people to attend, but the unwillingness to be more candid about the bad things (because, let's be honest, we already know all about the good) was a little off-putting.

[Yeezus]

Really, I asked to see how open/honest they were being and get an idea of their perspective on things.

This. I was at last week's ASP and, although I realize that the primary goal of those is to convince people to attend, I felt like a lot of people were incredibly disingenuous. Not the faculty necessarily, but the students. I am not sure what sort of instructions they are given beforehand (if any), but at some points I felt like I was attending a timeshare presentation with the amount of high-pressure "sales" that were being pitched. Not to say this is a bad thing, because of course students are proud of their school and their community and want people to attend, but the unwillingness to be more candid about the bad things (because, let's be honest, we already know all about the good) was a little off-putting.

What did you expect them to say though? The students who talk to 0Ls at these events are almost always the students with great results who really like the school. Those students honestly might not have anything bad to say, since they got the best possible outcomes. Have you tried going out of your way to talk to random students who didn't have the best outcomes? Not saying you don't have a point, but depending on who you talked to, what you heard may be par for the course at all schools. Thinking that you'll hear brutally honest criticism about the school from students who were chosen by the school to talk may be a bit naive.

[inlovewithpiper]

Really, I asked to see how open/honest they were being and get an idea of their perspective on things.

This. I was at last week's ASP and, although I realize that the primary goal of those is to convince people to attend, I felt like a lot of people were incredibly disingenuous. Not the faculty necessarily, but the students. I am not sure what sort of instructions they are given beforehand (if any), but at some points I felt like I was attending a timeshare presentation with the amount of high-pressure "sales" that were being pitched. Not to say this is a bad thing, because of course students are proud of their school and their community and want people to attend, but the unwillingness to be more candid about the bad things (because, let's be honest, we already know all about the good) was a little off-putting.

What did you expect them to say though? The students who talk to 0Ls at these events are almost always the students with great results who really like the school. Those students honestly might not have anything bad to say, since they got the best possible outcomes. Have you tried going out of your way to talk to random students who didn't have the best outcomes? Not saying you don't have a point, but depending on who you talked to, what you heard may be par for the course at all schools. Thinking that you'll hear brutally honest criticism about the school from students who were chosen by the school to talk may be a bit naive.

I didn't expect them to outright bash their school, don't get me wrong. But, for example, during the student panel the girl from San Diego said the worst thing about the school was the coffee downstairs. While that may be true of her experience and, you're right that many others may not have any negative concerns to levy, I think the spirit of the question was more clearly about what aspects of the school are subpar when compared to other schools that are similarly ranked against Vandy. Perhaps I was expecting a bit too much, but I had hoped to get a picture of The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. At the end of the day, though, law school is such a personal experience that maybe what one person would consider a negative thing, another would love. I just got the impression that everyone was actively avoiding talking about the bad, that's all.

On a more positive note, that RegState class was super fun. I was sad we only had an hour.

[180kickflip]

Really, I asked to see how open/honest they were being and get an idea of their perspective on things.

This. I was at last week's ASP and, although I realize that the primary goal of those is to convince people to attend, I felt like a lot of people were incredibly disingenuous. Not the faculty necessarily, but the students. I am not sure what sort of instructions they are given beforehand (if any), but at some points I felt like I was attending a timeshare presentation with the amount of high-pressure "sales" that were being pitched. Not to say this is a bad thing, because of course students are proud of their school and their community and want people to attend, but the unwillingness to be more candid about the bad things (because, let's be honest, we already know all about the good) was a little off-putting.

What did you expect them to say though? The students who talk to 0Ls at these events are almost always the students with great results who really like the school. Those students honestly might not have anything bad to say, since they got the best possible outcomes. Have you tried going out of your way to talk to random students who didn't have the best outcomes? Not saying you don't have a point, but depending on who you talked to, what you heard may be par for the course at all schools. Thinking that you'll hear brutally honest criticism about the school from students who were chosen by the school to talk may be a bit naive.

I think part of the reason the panel didn't give off the best vibe is that right before they opened the floor to questions, the panelists made a point to tell us that there were no school faculty in the room for a reason and they were basically there for honest, open dialogue. To me, it was reasonable to expect them to be a bit more open and straight-forward after that...maybe not brutally honest, but at least willing to acknowledge that the school has at least one weakness.

It really went like..
Q: would you pay sticker?
A: Vanderbilt offers a great opportunity for everyone whether they pay sticker or not
Q: What is one thing you think could be improved or done better?
A: Well, the coffee isn't the best...but we have Starbucks right across the street, so thats not even an issue.
Q: Do you think this city is good for commuting by bike?
A: (After one girl starts to say no) Vanderbilt is great for bikes, but the drivers around the city may not be the best.

As far as the classes, I totally enjoyed the class on eminent domain, but I was ready to move on during the mock class. I think it was the difference in teaching styles (slides and jokes versus lecture and pacing).

[Moneytrees]

Waitlisted today. Does anybody know if Vandy offers scholarships to people who get in off the wait list?

[arklaw13]

Waitlisted today. Does anybody know if Vandy offers scholarships to people who get in off the wait list?

Yes

[vdh2102]

Ultimately, the purpose of the event is for the school to woo people into spending big money to attend. Of course they're going to do everything they can to paint the brightest possible picture of themselves-- that's the nature of the game. You can't expect them to give themselves bad press. I think you just have to take what they say with a grain of salt and supplement the ASW experience with your own research.

[Big Red]

Waitlisted today. Does anybody know if Vandy offers scholarships to people who get in off the wait list?

Yes

Ark - do you think the relatively high proportion of kjds at vandy impacts the school?

[storpappa]

Once you understand that ASW is a sales meeting you are on the path to enlightenment. It's not a good or bad thing, but knowing what it's purpose is helps you use the right lens

[arklaw13]

I didn't expect them to outright bash their school, don't get me wrong. But, for example, during the student panel the girl from San Diego said the worst thing about the school was the coffee downstairs. While that may be true of her experience and, you're right that many others may not have any negative concerns to levy, I think the spirit of the question was more clearly about what aspects of the school are subpar when compared to other schools that are similarly ranked against Vandy. Perhaps I was expecting a bit too much, but I had hoped to get a picture of the good, the bad, and the ugly. At the end of the day, though, law school is such a personal experience that maybe what one person would consider a negative thing, another would love. I just got the impression that everyone was actively avoiding talking about the bad, that's all.

One problem is that we have no way of comparing Vandy to similarly ranked schools like UT/UCLA/WUSTL, etc. I didn't even apply to those schools, so I know nothing about them. Also, the panels are usually 2/3Ls who are pretty far removed from their own admissions cycle. So I don't know what the bad is compared to other schools. Maybe people who have friends at other schools can effectively comment, but I certainly can't.

Overall, I can't think of many negative things to say. But I will give you a list, to make up for the fact that the ASW panel didn't:
-legal writing class suck IMO. They're graded, which is terrible in itself, and the grading criteria is far from transparent. P/F grading would be better IMO.
-career services isn't that great, but I think that applies to every school
-if you're around the median it can be very difficult to get a job with a firm. If you have ties to the south, it's easier because certain markets are less grade-selective, but if you're trying to get back to the northeast, Cali, or somewhere else you could easily be fucked.
-probably smaller alumni connections at firms (outside the southeast, at least) because the class size is so small. That said, the alumni connections we do have are pretty helpful in my experience, perhaps more than the average alum. E.g., if a firm has 50 columbia grads working there, maybe alum #13 will try to help a columbia kid out, maybe not. But when there's only 1 Vandy alum at the firm (which can often be the case), it's usually the case that they'll be pretty accessible. This is just my personal experience, though. It's kind of like being from the same small town as someone you meet in a strange city.
-smaller number of firms at OCI because of the small class size. Doesn't hamper mass mail efforts with most markets, but NYC firms tend to be somewhat averse to mass mail from schools where they don't do OCI at.

[keekztresq]

I didn't expect them to outright bash their school, don't get me wrong. But, for example, during the student panel the girl from San Diego said the worst thing about the school was the coffee downstairs. While that may be true of her experience and, you're right that many others may not have any negative concerns to levy, I think the spirit of the question was more clearly about what aspects of the school are subpar when compared to other schools that are similarly ranked against Vandy. Perhaps I was expecting a bit too much, but I had hoped to get a picture of the good, the bad, and the ugly. At the end of the day, though, law school is such a personal experience that maybe what one person would consider a negative thing, another would love. I just got the impression that everyone was actively avoiding talking about the bad, that's all.

One problem is that we have no way of comparing Vandy to similarly ranked schools like UT/UCLA/WUSTL, etc. I didn't even apply to those schools, so I know nothing about them. Also, the panels are usually 2/3Ls who are pretty far removed from their own admissions cycle. So I don't know what the bad is compared to other schools. Maybe people who have friends at other schools can effectively comment, but I certainly can't.

Overall, I can't think of many negative things to say. But I will give you a list, to make up for the fact that the ASW panel didn't:
-legal writing class suck IMO. They're graded, which is terrible in itself, and the grading criteria is far from transparent. P/F grading would be better IMO.
-career services isn't that great, but I think that applies to every school
-if you're around the median it can be very difficult to get a job with a firm. If you have ties to the south, it's easier because certain markets are less grade-selective, but if you're trying to get back to the northeast, Cali, or somewhere else you could easily be fucked.
-probably smaller alumni connections at firms (outside the southeast, at least) because the class size is so small. That said, the alumni connections we do have are pretty helpful in my experience, perhaps more than the average alum. E.g., if a firm has 50 columbia grads working there, maybe alum #13 will try to help a columbia kid out, maybe not. But when there's only 1 Vandy alum at the firm (which can often be the case), it's usually the case that they'll be pretty accessible. This is just my personal experience, though. It's kind of like being from the same small town as someone you meet in a strange city.
-smaller number of firms at OCI because of the small class size. Doesn't hamper mass mail efforts with most markets, but NYC firms tend to be somewhat averse to mass mail from schools where they don't do OCI at.

Thank you so much for this! It was super helpful!

[adil91]

I didn't expect them to outright bash their school, don't get me wrong. But, for example, during the student panel the girl from San Diego said the worst thing about the school was the coffee downstairs. While that may be true of her experience and, you're right that many others may not have any negative concerns to levy, I think the spirit of the question was more clearly about what aspects of the school are subpar when compared to other schools that are similarly ranked against Vandy. Perhaps I was expecting a bit too much, but I had hoped to get a picture of the good, the bad, and the ugly. At the end of the day, though, law school is such a personal experience that maybe what one person would consider a negative thing, another would love. I just got the impression that everyone was actively avoiding talking about the bad, that's all.

One problem is that we have no way of comparing Vandy to similarly ranked schools like UT/UCLA/WUSTL, etc. I didn't even apply to those schools, so I know nothing about them. Also, the panels are usually 2/3Ls who are pretty far removed from their own admissions cycle. So I don't know what the bad is compared to other schools. Maybe people who have friends at other schools can effectively comment, but I certainly can't.

Overall, I can't think of many negative things to say. But I will give you a list, to make up for the fact that the ASW panel didn't:
-legal writing class suck IMO. They're graded, which is terrible in itself, and the grading criteria is far from transparent. P/F grading would be better IMO.
-career services isn't that great, but I think that applies to every school
-if you're around the median it can be very difficult to get a job with a firm. If you have ties to the south, it's easier because certain markets are less grade-selective, but if you're trying to get back to the northeast, Cali, or somewhere else you could easily be fucked.
-probably smaller alumni connections at firms (outside the southeast, at least) because the class size is so small. That said, the alumni connections we do have are pretty helpful in my experience, perhaps more than the average alum. E.g., if a firm has 50 columbia grads working there, maybe alum #13 will try to help a columbia kid out, maybe not. But when there's only 1 Vandy alum at the firm (which can often be the case), it's usually the case that they'll be pretty accessible. This is just my personal experience, though. It's kind of like being from the same small town as someone you meet in a strange city.
-smaller number of firms at OCI because of the small class size. Doesn't hamper mass mail efforts with most markets, but NYC firms tend to be somewhat averse to mass mail from schools where they don't do OCI at.

Interesting. I have ties to a southern market(Atlanta), Do you feel like it would be easier to land at a firm here that doesn't to OCI from Vandy since Vandy is really thought of as a southern Ivy here? Most small firms here have GSU,Mercer,or UGA grads, am I wrong to assume that they'd love to have a Vandy grad because it would increase the prestige of the firm? I'm sure it would be easier to Mass Mail firms in a southern market with ties than NYC or Cali with tied.

[Hikikomorist]

.

[arklaw13]

Waitlisted today. Does anybody know if Vandy offers scholarships to people who get in off the wait list?

Yes

Ark - do you think the relatively high proportion of kjds at vandy impacts the school?

I have no idea. 44% is high compared to some, but I don't really know who is kjd and who isn't in my class without looking it up.

[arklaw13]

I didn't expect them to outright bash their school, don't get me wrong. But, for example, during the student panel the girl from San Diego said the worst thing about the school was the coffee downstairs. While that may be true of her experience and, you're right that many others may not have any negative concerns to levy, I think the spirit of the question was more clearly about what aspects of the school are subpar when compared to other schools that are similarly ranked against Vandy. Perhaps I was expecting a bit too much, but I had hoped to get a picture of the good, the bad, and the ugly. At the end of the day, though, law school is such a personal experience that maybe what one person would consider a negative thing, another would love. I just got the impression that everyone was actively avoiding talking about the bad, that's all.

One problem is that we have no way of comparing Vandy to similarly ranked schools like UT/UCLA/WUSTL, etc. I didn't even apply to those schools, so I know nothing about them. Also, the panels are usually 2/3Ls who are pretty far removed from their own admissions cycle. So I don't know what the bad is compared to other schools. Maybe people who have friends at other schools can effectively comment, but I certainly can't.

Overall, I can't think of many negative things to say. But I will give you a list, to make up for the fact that the ASW panel didn't:
-legal writing class suck IMO. They're graded, which is terrible in itself, and the grading criteria is far from transparent. P/F grading would be better IMO.
-career services isn't that great, but I think that applies to every school
-if you're around the median it can be very difficult to get a job with a firm. If you have ties to the south, it's easier because certain markets are less grade-selective, but if you're trying to get back to the northeast, Cali, or somewhere else you could easily be fucked.
-probably smaller alumni connections at firms (outside the southeast, at least) because the class size is so small. That said, the alumni connections we do have are pretty helpful in my experience, perhaps more than the average alum. E.g., if a firm has 50 columbia grads working there, maybe alum #13 will try to help a columbia kid out, maybe not. But when there's only 1 Vandy alum at the firm (which can often be the case), it's usually the case that they'll be pretty accessible. This is just my personal experience, though. It's kind of like being from the same small town as someone you meet in a strange city.
-smaller number of firms at OCI because of the small class size. Doesn't hamper mass mail efforts with most markets, but NYC firms tend to be somewhat averse to mass mail from schools where they don't do OCI at.

They were actually somewhat open about career services being a bit lacking.

Probably because anyone at any law school will say that if they're being honest. I don't know how our CSO fares comparatively, though. I wish we had better data available about firms. For instance, what the GPAs of people who got callbacks from a given firm the previous few years would help when you're making your bidlist. Or the number of callbacks a given firm gave out the past year. I've suggested to the administration that they give out the data if they can do it in a way that won't lead to private information being given out, but idk if they'll do it. Schools probably tend to hold some of that data close to the chest because if it got posted to ATL there could be criticism. I dunno.

[mohdban]

Decision mailed! I can't sign up for delivery manager because I am international. Any other way of knowing what the decision is instead of waiting 1 week+?

[cafecreme15]

Just emailed admissions, as I'm on my 14th week of waiting. This is getting ridiculous, and I hope my saltiness didn't come across too much in my email haha.

[storpappa]

Doesn't LSN start updating next week as the reports come out?

It isn't the far from now till 4/15