you can find me at www.top-law-schools.com! Forum

[nickhalden]

Hmm, there could be something to that. I got offered PT early in the fall before a retake when I had a mid 160s score. The median LSAT at my undergrad is a 152.

That's frustrating. I had mid-160s before my Sept retake, my undergrad median is 154, and no invite. It will be interesting to see how much (if at all) regular decision applicants are disadvantaged vis-à-vis PT applicants. As in, if there are two nearly identical candidates would the PT receive more money than the regular because he had a decision earlier?

[Tr3]

I think it's also easier to get PT if you have higher scores before the fall LSAT. One of my friends has the same numbers (from the same school) and she got PT, but she took the June exam, whereas I took the September exam and was not offered PT. Who knows.

[Barbaroix2]

On word on how long it takes to hear back for us non PT applicants? Application complete as of 12/1/14. File under review as of 1/5/15.

It took me about 2 and a half months from complete to decision, but I imagine their pace on non-PT apps should start to pick up soon.

[maroon175]

At an admissions event held by Duke and a few other law schools, Dean Hoye talked about how they view applicants in context of their undergraduate university (so a 166 LSAT is more impressive if the student comes from a school that has an average LSAT of 150, as opposed to a 168 from Harvard).

That's really interesting! At my undergraduate institution, the median LSAT is a 154 and 6% of alumni scored above 167.

Very interesting! Could anyone point me to a recent mean LSAT score chart by undergraduate institution? I was only able to find the following from 2008:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/col ... llege.html

[Hikikomorist]

.

[nickhalden]

Very interesting! Could anyone point me to a recent mean LSAT score chart by undergraduate institution? I was only able to find the following from 2008:

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/col ... llege.html

It's in your Academic Summary Report on your LSAC page. It breaks out percentiles for your school across scoring ranges. Add up fifty percent from the bottom (or top) and that's the median for your school. Also remember that the national median is 151.

[OhBoyOhBortles]

I don't think undergrad avg lsat is weighed heavily at all. They may "consider" it, but I doubt it is anything that will penalize an applicant with good stats from a top-ranked undergrad. Or anything that will lift you above the results you might reasonably expect from your statistics. I had a 171 and my undergrad institution's average last year was a 151. Did not get PT invite.

[Scaliafan3421]

deleted

[lawschool1741]

.

[try.honesty]

I don't think undergrad avg lsat is weighed heavily at all. They may "consider" it, but I doubt it is anything that will penalize an applicant with good stats from a top-ranked undergrad. Or anything that will lift you above the results you might reasonably expect from your statistics. I had a 171 and my undergrad institution's average last year was a 151. Did not get PT invite.

At the least I don't think it's certainly not the only factor. I got PT with a mid-160s lsat (retook later), and my score was about the average of my school, certainly not above it by any significant amount

[nickhalden]

So, in sum, we understand no rationale re: PT invites. Anyone want to ask Dean Hoye during a Mordecai interview???

[Mack.Hambleton]

So, in sum, we understand no rationale re: PT invites. Anyone want to ask Dean Hoye during a Mordecai interview???

Lol

[blacklungz]

At an admissions event held by Duke and a few other law schools, Dean Hoye talked about how they view applicants in context of their undergraduate university (so a 166 LSAT is more impressive if the student comes from a school that has an average LSAT of 150, as opposed to a 168 from Harvard).

My guess is that Duke runs some sort of algorithm to send PT invites to applicants that fill a particular percentile within each university.

Does anyone know if Duke increased the number of PT invites sent out this year as compared to last year? I'd be surprised if it actually increased their yield because this system is probably the most blatant example of non-holistic admissions policies I've seen from any school.

Is that really true??? My school's score is 146 and I received a 171. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person from my school to have ever scored above the 95th percentile.

Btw, invited for PT.

[mgschiet]

There can't be a holistic consideration, unless you consider what tincan678 referenced holistic. Duke only has access to your LSAT/GPA when they extend a PT invite, excepting solitications like KissMyAxe made where he provided additional information.

Not entirely true. Unless I am mistaken, they also have access to other information (state of residence, undergraduate institution/degree, military service, etc.). I still wouldn't refer to that as "holistic," but they have access to more than simply LSAT and GPA, so they could potentially be looking at other background information, offering PT to candidates from various demographics to encourage a more diversified field of candidates.

For example, they probably knew my age (28), LSAT score (169), undegraduate major (music), undergraduate institution (along with the accompanying LSAT information), residence (NC), military background, and a GPA range (I hadn't submitted my transcript yet) when they offered me Priority Track. It wasn't until after they got the rest of my information that they placed me on Priority Reserve, haha.

[annzhang151515]

Have heard back from ED yet?

Status: File under review
Current Status Date: 1/20/2015

[quadsbaby]

At an admissions event held by Duke and a few other law schools, Dean Hoye talked about how they view applicants in context of their undergraduate university (so a 166 LSAT is more impressive if the student comes from a school that has an average LSAT of 150, as opposed to a 168 from Harvard).

My guess is that Duke runs some sort of algorithm to send PT invites to applicants that fill a particular percentile within each university.

Does anyone know if Duke increased the number of PT invites sent out this year as compared to last year? I'd be surprised if it actually increased their yield because this system is probably the most blatant example of non-holistic admissions policies I've seen from any school.

Is that really true??? My school's score is 146 and I received a 171. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person from my school to have ever scored above the 95th percentile.

Btw, invited for PT.

My understanding is that if this data is used at all, it's used for interpreting your GPA. I don't think "diversity of school performance" is a particularly interesting factor for law schools. In contrast, it's helpful to know that a student with a 4.0 got it somewhere where the mean LSAT score is 140--it suggests less than the student that got a 4.0 at a university where mean LSAT score is 160.

[leslieknope]

^That's essentially what I remember the SLS and Duke deans saying at the forum I went to. They don't care what school you went to, but they do care how your GPA looks in context of your school.

[bob311]

Anyone else ED II? I've been under review 1 since 1/12 and nothing yet

[MaxinCoolin]

At an admissions event held by Duke and a few other law schools, Dean Hoye talked about how they view applicants in context of their undergraduate university (so a 166 LSAT is more impressive if the student comes from a school that has an average LSAT of 150, as opposed to a 168 from Harvard).

My guess is that Duke runs some sort of algorithm to send PT invites to applicants that fill a particular percentile within each university.

Does anyone know if Duke increased the number of PT invites sent out this year as compared to last year? I'd be surprised if it actually increased their yield because this system is probably the most blatant example of non-holistic admissions policies I've seen from any school.

Is that really true??? My school's score is 146 and I received a 171. I'm pretty sure I'm the only person from my school to have ever scored above the 95th percentile.

Btw, invited for PT.

My understanding is that if this data is used at all, it's used for interpreting your GPA. I don't think "diversity of school performance" is a particularly interesting factor for law schools. In contrast, it's helpful to know that a student with a 4.0 got it somewhere where the mean LSAT score is 140--it suggests less than the student that got a 4.0 at a university where mean LSAT score is 160.

Hmmm interesting. My thinking was that a 171 from my school (a small small state school) may get a bit more attention than a 171 from Harvard. Harvard would have more resources (specific classes, advisors, tutors, alumni, etc.) that can help you get a good LSAT score than a small state school has. And all else equal, the candidate who got a 171 from a state school would be viewed more favorably because if they had the Harvard resources, they probably could have scored higher. Probably wishful thinking on my part, oh well.

Also, my school had a lot of first generation college students whose first language was not English (literally over 65% of my graduating class), so it makes sense why our LSAT score was a little low. The LSAT isn't an easy test when you fully learned English in 4th or 5th grade.

[tkim88]

I have also been under review for ED II since 1/12. Still no word. I imagine we'll hear back next Friday or Saturday. 9-10 DAYS!!!

Any ED I admits here?

[bob311]

I have also been under review for ED II since 1/12. Still no word. I imagine we'll hear back next Friday or Saturday. 9-10 DAYS!!!

Any ED I admits here?

Same exact thing for me. Really really really really hoping.

[nickhalden]

I'm really skeptical how much they actually weigh UG LSAT median in something as quick as a PT invite. Presumably, PTs exist ultimately to increase matriculation of desirable candidates. As we know, desirable candidates are defined largely in their reportable GPA/LSAT. I just don't think Duke would put a ton of work into analyzing and valuing your UG LSAT median in a PT invite calculation. Where's the return? How would it help their medians?

In any case - what interests me more (now that I've gotten over my PT rejection) is speculating if/how regular applicants may be disadvantaged in decisions and scholarships versus PT applicants. If so, I wonder if the higher matriculation in PT applicants comes from the higher scholarships they get from having earlier decisions.

[rebexness]

[matlan72]

Just figured I'd add my 2 cents... I think PT also may have something to do with how likely Duke thinks it would be for an admitted applicant to matriculate, besides other factors like LSAT and GPA... I'm a non-URM, high GPA but 25th LSAT and I was invited to PT and admitted within the first two weeks of the cycle. However, I added Duke to my list of schools on LSAC early and started filling out my app the day it was available (August 23rd I believe). I was invited to submit PT between the time when the app became available (8/23) and when the LSAC began to transmit apps to Duke for review (9/1). So maybe PT is some sort of pro-active YP program or something...

[pylon]

I think it's safe to say It's more complex (or more random) than we think.