Military Law

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:10 pm

willbailey wrote:Has anyone applying for April 2020 Air Force DAP board been contacted for the SJA interview? Guessing they will try avoid in-person interviews now but I haven't heard/seen any updates yet.
That is very strange. As far as I’m aware, there is no information indicating that the DAP process has been altered in any way to reflect COVID-19 concerns. I would contact 1-800-JAG-USAF to inquire about what’s up. I was contacted by my SJA within a couple of days of sending in my application.

Your SJA will appreciate getting this sorted out earlier than later, since their interview notes are due on April 1. Better give them more time than wait until the last second.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:11 pm

willbailey wrote:Has anyone applying for April 2020 Air Force DAP board been contacted for the SJA interview? Guessing they will try avoid in-person interviews now but I haven't heard/seen any updates yet.
Give it some time -- DOD reacting to COVID-19 is still in the macro steps at the Department level (stop movements, etc). The JA world will have to figure out a lot of things in-turn (such as, "are we still holding courts-martial?"). I guarantee in that mix is JAX figuring out how they will adjust recruiting and hiring. And now most of them are going to be trying to navigate this while in a telework status.

So stand by, be patient, and keep following the the JAX Facebook page.

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Re: Military Law

Post by mulligansoup » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:45 pm

thriller1122 wrote:
mulligansoup wrote:Navy had a low acceptance rate this board, so I decided to accept Army and continue with that process now and am getting more and more excited. I followed the email and contacted CAPT MacDonald saying I accept the offer of commission. Now I am waiting to hear back and have started the DODMETS paperwork I received as an alternate to start getting my documents in order.

Is anyone else going through the Army JAGC process right now? What should I expect to happen in the coming weeks? I am sending our good vibes to everyone still waiting and making a decision.
Which board for the Navy are you talking about?
The 3L Spring Board that just came out. I heard it was something like 6/110 applications were accepted, but that was some secondhand information.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:42 pm

Anyone available to offer information on being a Marine Judge Advocate? I am leaning towards USMC over the other branches because I'm interested in being trained to the full extent as an officer, not just as a lawyer. However, I haven't been able to find any information on specifics like how much control you have over your practice area as a JA or the likelihood of being selected to go for an LLM. Also are the assignment location options pretty much just Virginia, Hawaii, San Diego, and Japan? Any insight would be appreciated!

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Re: Military Law

Post by swharre » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:31 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
willbailey wrote:Has anyone applying for April 2020 Air Force DAP board been contacted for the SJA interview? Guessing they will try avoid in-person interviews now but I haven't heard/seen any updates yet.
Give it some time -- DOD reacting to COVID-19 is still in the macro steps at the Department level (stop movements, etc). The JA world will have to figure out a lot of things in-turn (such as, "are we still holding courts-martial?"). I guarantee in that mix is JAX figuring out how they will adjust recruiting and hiring. And now most of them are going to be trying to navigate this while in a telework status.

So stand by, be patient, and keep following the the JAX Facebook page.
My SJA at Scott AFB is allowing FaceTime interviewing, so I think the AF is forward thinking in light of COVID-19

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:46 pm

swharre wrote:
Patrick Bateman wrote:
willbailey wrote:Has anyone applying for April 2020 Air Force DAP board been contacted for the SJA interview? Guessing they will try avoid in-person interviews now but I haven't heard/seen any updates yet.
Give it some time -- DOD reacting to COVID-19 is still in the macro steps at the Department level (stop movements, etc). The JA world will have to figure out a lot of things in-turn (such as, "are we still holding courts-martial?"). I guarantee in that mix is JAX figuring out how they will adjust recruiting and hiring. And now most of them are going to be trying to navigate this while in a telework status.

So stand by, be patient, and keep following the the JAX Facebook page.
My SJA at Scott AFB is allowing FaceTime interviewing, so I think the AF is forward thinking in light of COVID-19
Currently at JASOC 20-B. What I can say is a number of base legal offices are working from home, which would impact interviews. JASOC is still running, normal-ish, we had 6 training days cut off due to the no travel order. Not sure how COVID-19 will impact the selection board.

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Re: Military Law

Post by nodoze » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:19 pm

Great thread and thanks to all who have contributed to it over time.

I am disabled retired from the Navy and just went through the process of helping my oldest get her 4 year ROTC scholarship.

My 2nd oldest believes she wants to be a JAG and I am kinda lost as to what is the best option for her to pursue straight out of high school.

Would her enrolling in a 3+3 program at a University that has an ROTC program be the best option with me paying the first 2-3 years and then her applying for a 4 year or 3 year ROTC program make the most sense or are there better options to consider?

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Thu Apr 02, 2020 12:50 pm

nodoze wrote:Great thread and thanks to all who have contributed to it over time.

I am disabled retired from the Navy and just went through the process of helping my oldest get her 4 year ROTC scholarship.

My 2nd oldest believes she wants to be a JAG and I am kinda lost as to what is the best option for her to pursue straight out of high school.

Would her enrolling in a 3+3 program at a University that has an ROTC program be the best option with me paying the first 2-3 years and then her applying for a 4 year or 3 year ROTC program make the most sense or are there better options to consider?
If you and your second oldest are only considering the Navy, I'll let our Navy posters weigh in.

Air Force has a number ways to skin this cat, though I cannot comment on what is the most economically advantageous.

The Educational Delay (Ed Delay) program is one route - she would go through ROTC as an undergrad, commission, and if selected for Ed Delay by the JAGC, she would then attend law school and subsequently serve as a JAG.

See generally: https://afrotc.asu.edu/sites/default/fi ... aug_11.pdf

She could also go through ROTC, commission into whatever career field, and then pursue either FLEP or ELP to attend law school and become a JAG:

https://www.airforce.com/careers/specia ... y-military


I will note these programs are *extremely* competitive in their selection.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:41 am

mulligansoup wrote:I was wondering if anyone had insight on this specific scenario I find myself in:

I was just offered an AD Army spot off the alternate list. Navy has been my top choice since day 1, but their decision comes out two weeks AFTER I have to tell Army my choice. Is it possible to rescind an acceptance if done in a timely manner since the obligation doesn't attach until DCC (according to the email)?

I am not sure at my shot with the Navy because of the way applications have been over the year but I interned with them over the summer, interned with the Coast Guard before that, and have a background in military ethics; however, my GPA is only 2.8. I only applied Navy and Army in that order of preference.

I just don't want to mess up my chances of anything and finding myself unemployed and reapplying for it all in the fall when I would be happy with Army but don't want to have to give up a chance at Navy if offered.
Current JAG, was in similar situation to yours when applying. I think it’s fair and forthright to be honest in the situation. But you also have no obligation until you commission and can always back out before then, although it could perturb your recruiter/retailer, ultimately it’s part of this process and happens every cycle. In fact sometimes they over offer and account for fallout.

Granted, if you shoot straight with your Army POC be prepared for them to double down on asking you things like “why Navy over Army?” And trying to sell you on Army. It is, after all, their job to advocate. This is how it would go for you regardless of which 2 branches you plugged into this scenario.

But yeah, it’s a big commitment, as long as you are confident in your ranking, you gotta go with what’s best for you/your family, etc and protect your choices. The great thing about any of the JAG Corps is 99.9% of people you come across professionally will say the same thing and encourage this line of thinking.

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Dawg57

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Re: Military Law

Post by Dawg57 » Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone available to offer information on being a Marine Judge Advocate? I am leaning towards USMC over the other branches because I'm interested in being trained to the full extent as an officer, not just as a lawyer. However, I haven't been able to find any information on specifics like how much control you have over your practice area as a JA or the likelihood of being selected to go for an LLM. Also are the assignment location options pretty much just Virginia, Hawaii, San Diego, and Japan? Any insight would be appreciated!
Don’t have the time ATM to type out all I know. But DM as a reminder and I’ll get you resources/info answering some of your questions.

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Re: Military Law

Post by mecarey » Fri Apr 03, 2020 8:01 pm

For anyone else who was watching inboxes, the USAF is sending out emails re: selections made in the March JAG Air Reserve Component board. I hope anyone waiting receives good news!

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:04 pm

Current 3L accepted for Army Reserve. With several states already postponing the bar until the fall, does that pretty much ruin any chance of a 3L making the January training class? I also have heard that you can commission before DCC/JAOBC and was wondering if anyone knew the specifics of how the process works/how you actually go about commissioning early. Thanks and stay safe guys.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:35 am

With a good number of firms reducing/capping salaries and some considering layoffs, is there a possibility that the Army will rescind or cut down on the offers it made, in light of the economic downturn? I am terrified that my upcoming JAOBC class will be "lathamed."

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Re: Military Law

Post by kdial » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:With a good number of firms reducing/capping salaries and some considering layoffs, is there a possibility that the Army will rescind or cut down on the offers it made, in light of the economic downturn? I am terrified that my upcoming JAOBC class will be "lathamed."
I would also, love any insight on these last two posts. Trying to keep a level head about this entire thing, but some doubt is starting to creep in.

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Patrick Bateman

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Re: Military Law

Post by Patrick Bateman » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:With a good number of firms reducing/capping salaries and some considering layoffs, is there a possibility that the Army will rescind or cut down on the offers it made, in light of the economic downturn? I am terrified that my upcoming JAOBC class will be "lathamed."
As someone that came on active duty during the 2008 crash, I would not worry about a recession impacting hiring for JAGs the way it will for the private side. Back in 08 and beyond, you didn't see slots being slashed or offers rescinded. You did see, however, everyone and their mother applying for JAG positions, so the selection rates plummeted due to the artificial spike of applications coming in. Honestly, the only time JAG jobs were put in danger were due to Federal funding issues brought on by sequestration. But that is a story for another day.

The bigger question will be how training and other things will be carried out due to COVID considerations. Officer training and JAG trainings may end up getting pushed way out, which obviously may cause some hardship among new accessions.

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Re: Military Law

Post by howell » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:With a good number of firms reducing/capping salaries and some considering layoffs, is there a possibility that the Army will rescind or cut down on the offers it made, in light of the economic downturn? I am terrified that my upcoming JAOBC class will be "lathamed."
I see Patrick Bateman has responded. Listen to him first.

I have no direct knowledge of what the Army intends to do, but I would be shocked if that happened.

For one, the military budget isn't currently in danger to my knowledge, and I don't see that changing before the next fiscal year at the earliest. Any budgetary impact to the Army will likely take awhile and unfold in different ways. The military usually controls the pipeline instead of just axing people, but reductions in force do occur. Even when things got tight in the Air Force, though, I don't recall them ever telling people not to show up to initial training. The RIFs (which really, really sucked) affected people in the 4-6 year range, if I recall (another poster here has a lot more information about those).

Again, if I recall correctly, the severe impacts of the 2008 downturn for the military took a few years to unfold. The Air Force even decided to speed things up, and it still took several years to really feel the pain (at least for the JAG Corps). Selection boards became more competitive, however, and I think that was predominantly from many more people applying.

I would feel a lot safer being employed by the military right now than being in the private sector.

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Re: Military Law

Post by jam313 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:18 pm

Patrick Bateman wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:With a good number of firms reducing/capping salaries and some considering layoffs, is there a possibility that the Army will rescind or cut down on the offers it made, in light of the economic downturn? I am terrified that my upcoming JAOBC class will be "lathamed."
The bigger question will be how training and other things will be carried out due to COVID considerations. Officer training and JAG trainings may end up getting pushed way out, which obviously may cause some hardship among new accessions.
I can speak to the current JAOBC and DCC trainings -- both are pressing onward without delay.

As far as the next JAOBC class (212th), they should be penciled in to start DCC around August 2020? Being 4 months away, I suppose if social distancing is still a thing, I could see the dates getting pushed out. But if things are back to normal by then, I would speculate it'd be business as usual.

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Re: Military Law

Post by thriller1122 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:45 pm

Does anyone have any information (or guesses) regarding going to OCS and JAG School for the Air Force given the potential for limited or no bar exams? The ABA just officially recommended limited diploma privilege which could delay taking the bar for up to a year. Any guesses if we would be allowed to go before taking the bar?

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:25 pm

thriller1122 wrote:Does anyone have any information (or guesses) regarding going to OCS and JAG School for the Air Force given the potential for limited or no bar exams? The ABA just officially recommended limited diploma privilege which could delay taking the bar for up to a year. Any guesses if we would be allowed to go before taking the bar?
This is all speculation, but I think it's going to depend on what your state decides. States with diploma privilege already don't have to take the bar to be a JAG, so if Nebraska decides it's two law schools are good enough to just waive the bar exam and admit all the 2020 graduates then the Air Force shouldn't have any problem taking them. If your state won't license you then, unfortunately, I don't think you'll be able to comission.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:41 am

thriller1122 wrote:Does anyone have any information (or guesses) regarding going to OCS and JAG School for the Air Force given the potential for limited or no bar exams? The ABA just officially recommended limited diploma privilege which could delay taking the bar for up to a year. Any guesses if we would be allowed to go before taking the bar?
I thought all the branches require bar admission within a certain time frame, like 14 months or something? so would you just go through all the required training and what not and take the bar while working?

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Re: Military Law

Post by thriller1122 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
thriller1122 wrote:Does anyone have any information (or guesses) regarding going to OCS and JAG School for the Air Force given the potential for limited or no bar exams? The ABA just officially recommended limited diploma privilege which could delay taking the bar for up to a year. Any guesses if we would be allowed to go before taking the bar?
I thought all the branches require bar admission within a certain time frame, like 14 months or something? so would you just go through all the required training and what not and take the bar while working?
I'm hoping that is what happens. It seems like it would be more efficient to send us through OCS and JAG School and then we can take the bar after that when it is available. Based on the recent ABA opinion it seems like it would work too. But who knows?

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Re: Military Law

Post by mulligansoup » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:22 am

Despite all the lock downs, I was able to get my DODMETS physical done to keep going with the Army. But I was 5 pounds over the maximum for my height. Dang quarantine snacks! I lost quite a bit since my interview and before I accepted, so I am certain I can definitely get it down by the time DCC rolls around and I am still active and running etc.

I'm not worried in the long term, but will this derail everything now and prevent me from continuing ? or is DODMETS not an official weigh in and just making sure I am overall healthy? I don't really understand this process.

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Re: Military Law

Post by 3dLawstudent » Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:50 pm

mulligansoup wrote:Despite all the lock downs, I was able to get my DODMETS physical done to keep going with the Army. But I was 5 pounds over the maximum for my height. Dang quarantine snacks! I lost quite a bit since my interview and before I accepted, so I am certain I can definitely get it down by the time DCC rolls around and I am still active and running etc.

I'm not worried in the long term, but will this derail everything now and prevent me from continuing ? or is DODMETS not an official weigh in and just making sure I am overall healthy? I don't really understand this process.
Hi, AD select as well. Did they take your measurements after you were weighed? You can pass body fat even if you are over the weight limit, if your measurements bring you within body fat.

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Re: Military Law

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:45 pm

Who’s anxiously awaiting Air Force news? Last year results were already out by now, but obviously there is going to be a delay this year. Any guesses on when calls will go out?

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Re: Military Law

Post by mulligansoup » Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:54 pm

3dLawstudent wrote:
mulligansoup wrote:Despite all the lock downs, I was able to get my DODMETS physical done to keep going with the Army. But I was 5 pounds over the maximum for my height. Dang quarantine snacks! I lost quite a bit since my interview and before I accepted, so I am certain I can definitely get it down by the time DCC rolls around and I am still active and running etc.

I'm not worried in the long term, but will this derail everything now and prevent me from continuing ? or is DODMETS not an official weigh in and just making sure I am overall healthy? I don't really understand this process.
Hi, AD select as well. Did they take your measurements after you were weighed? You can pass body fat even if you are over the weight limit, if your measurements bring you within body fat.
They didn't , and it was only at an urgent care center which didn't feel right. I was following my alternate instructions because I haven't gotten new ones when I accepted the AD offer.

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