Military Law Forum

[Ranger85]

Ok, that's cool then.

I am just now trying to figure out which branch I'd consider working for. Army seems like it's probably the easiest to get into as a 1L. They take 75 2L's and 25 1L's.

I worked a summer during UG with a huge powerhouse firm in Chicago, so I got a taste of what the corporate world was like. I've considered JAG before, but never this heavily. I like the idea of serving my country, traveling, getting good experience, and being saluted! haha


You don't happen to know where I can find some statistics as to how many applications are received each year do you?

Just to give you an idea of being saluted, most officers hate it so much... You'll know when you enter the service. (I'm currently in service, as enlisted. I'm considering coming back to service after law school)

Just FYI the Army hasn' taken 1Ls as Interns in like 2 years. I know they need to update their website.

[Pdk7]

Did anybody for Army use a PHA instead of going through the DODMERB process? If so did you just email your DD2766 and questionnaire? Also, do we have to be 100% green as far as medical readiness (i.e. no missing vaccinations, have all required glasses/inserts, etc.) goes or is the PHA good enough? I'm going to email them on Monday but I figure I'd see if any of you know the answer.

Did you ever get an answer to this? My best guess would be no. I have taken both and a DODMERB is way more intensive than a standard PHA. DODMERB usually does things like blood work, colorblind check and you spend more time with an MD or PA actually being examined. A PHA is usually a questionnaire with a MD/PA, quick dental check, vision check, hearing test, HT.WT, Vaccines, and blood pressure. Also pretty sure everything in the DODMERB is by regulation so if one thing is left out it wouldn't count. You could maybe bring your DODMERB packet with you if you are about to have a PHA but I would probably just go where they tell you.

I did! Turned out that as long as the PHA is digitally signed then you're good to go, which is what I thought but it almost seemed too simple. The whole process was ridiculously quick and painless (literally). They just checked my eyes and asked me some questions and that was it. In and out in less than 30 minutes. I even tried to give them my updated vaccination records but they didn't really seem too concerned about it. I've been through the DODMERB/MEPS process and I know it can be long and tedious, so I guess I was expecting more. I take it that once you're already in the system and have an established medical history they just need to know that you're not falling apart. I also think that as far as being 100% green, they'll take care of any minor deficiencies during in-processing.

[ZeroDay]

If you're USAR or ARNG and scheduled to attend the 191st JAOBC, then PM me for the url to our facebook group. The AD folks were all on the same email chain and just organized a group.

[Legallybound2010]

Another no...0/3 now...this was my last time to apply as a student. Very disappointing...but I have bar prep and the bar to worry about now...guess I'll be reapplying in October. Congrats to all that made it.

[erik_1717]

No luck for me as well! First time applying and it will be the last time with Navy. Marine OCS this summer!!!!!

[hncsarge34]

No luck for me as well! First time applying and it will be the last time with Navy. Marine OCS this summer!!!!!

You should log on during your first libo weekend and tell us how it's going.

[CouchAJ]

How did the people applying to the Navy Jag SP submit their letters of recommendation? The only instructions on the actual online application state, "Letters of recommendation (minimum of three). Letters should be addressed to the "President of the JAGC Accessions Board"." On the Navy JAG careers site, however, there is a "Letters of Recommendation Form (DD370), located at --LinkRemoved--, for reference.

Are we supposed to submit both the filled out DD370 and a separate letter of recommendation addressed to the President of the JAGC Accessions Board per recommender? I'm a little confused....

P.S.

I'm not sure if this question has already been asked before somewhere in this rather extensive discussion, lol.

When I did mine, I filled out the info on the form, printed it, scanned it, then emailed it to my recommenders. They in turn wrote in their comments (or attached another sheet), scanned it and emailed it to the board. Hope that helps.

[zVo]

I'm currently an active duty warrant officer aviator with the U.S. Army and am considering getting my commission (it would be concurrent with my current ADSO), getting out, using my G.I. Bill to go to law school, then re-enter the service as a JAG officer.

I've read just about every page on this thread and haven't come across the following question --

For those who are prior-service officers, how does it affect your JAOBC (if at all)?

[Esquire]

For those who are prior-service officers, how does it affect your JAOBC (if at all)?

You go through the academic portion of JAOBC just the same as everyone else. But you can request a waiver to the soldier skills course, formerly BOLC, currently DCC.

[Ranger85]

For those who are prior-service officers, how does it affect your JAOBC (if at all)?

You go through the academic portion of JAOBC just the same as everyone else. But you can request a waiver to the soldier skills course, formerly BOLC, currently DCC.

I've heard its very few and far between for those getting it waived. Has gotten even fewer in the last couple years.

[Esquire]

For those who are prior-service officers, how does it affect your JAOBC (if at all)?

You go through the academic portion of JAOBC just the same as everyone else. But you can request a waiver to the soldier skills course, formerly BOLC, currently DCC.

I've heard its very few and far between for those getting it waived. Has gotten even fewer in the last couple years.

My class had several granted waivers. If you were an officer previously, that was a guaranteed waiver. Extensive enlisted service also got you a waiver but that was more iffy.

[Ranger85]

For those who are prior-service officers, how does it affect your JAOBC (if at all)?

You go through the academic portion of JAOBC just the same as everyone else. But you can request a waiver to the soldier skills course, formerly BOLC, currently DCC.

I've heard its very few and far between for those getting it waived. Has gotten even fewer in the last couple years.

My class had several granted waivers. If you were an officer previously, that was a guaranteed waiver. Extensive enlisted service also got you a waiver but that was more iffy.

Good, being that I've been to IBOLC and Ranger DCC kinda seems like a waste of time. Who do I talk to about getting it waived? The O6 in charge of JARO?

[twenty]

Hey ya'll (huge disclaimer, 0L)

The only reason I'm interested in law school is for JAG. Is there something I can do either pre-law school or while in law school to drastically increase the likelihood of becoming a JAG officer? I'm honestly even okay with doing OCS now and doing law school on an extended leave program if that has a higher likelihood of success.

Alternatively, is going to law school for JAG just an infinitely bad idea?

[bouakedojo]

Hey ya'll (huge disclaimer, 0L)

The only reason I'm interested in law school is for JAG. Is there something I can do either pre-law school or while in law school to drastically increase the likelihood of becoming a JAG officer?

There's a ton of stuff and I think if you'll go back a little bit in the thread, you'll find lots of good advice such as getting good grades/leadership experience/public service volunteering/moot court, litigation experience/internships with the branches.

I'm honestly even okay with doing OCS now and doing law school on an extended leave program if that has a higher likelihood of success.

I would not do that. There's no guarantee of you becoming a JAG if you did that. I think you might be able to pull that off with the Marines, though? Not sure.

Alternatively, is going to law school for JAG just an infinitely bad idea?

I think so if you mean going only for JAG. JAG was my first choice before heading to law school, but I was okay with my plan A's and plan B's. If you are not comfortable with other options, I don't know if law school is a good idea with the single digit selection rates for the JAG programs.

[andythefir]

Hey ya'll (huge disclaimer, 0L)

The only reason I'm interested in law school is for JAG. Is there something I can do either pre-law school or while in law school to drastically increase the likelihood of becoming a JAG officer? I'm honestly even okay with doing OCS now and doing law school on an extended leave program if that has a higher likelihood of success.

Alternatively, is going to law school for JAG just an infinitely bad idea?

I went to law school to go into the JAG corp. As of now I'm 0 for 3 (1 AF 2 Navy) as a rising 3L. Executive board for the military law student association, good grades from a military-friendly school (top 1/4 at ND). Took classes with an eye to the JAG (intensive trial advocacy, evidence, crim pro-even military law), extra-curriculars were aimed at the JAG (2 moot court teams [1 that I founded], executive board member of several big clubs). Because I'm a sucker I'm going to keep trying this year if I don't get an offer from the firm where I'm going this summer, but I'm not holding my breath.

The best way to think about it is lumping the JAG corp. into a career path with a prosecutor/public defender. You may want the Dallas prosecutor/Air Force JAG but you have to be willing to settle for the Amarillo prosecutor. Those jobs just don't have the grades + extra curricular=output that a lot of other careers do. As badly as you may want it there's just nothing you can do to guarantee them.

That having been said, if you can join a college sports team that seems to be a huge leg up. If you can get a JAG summer that also seems to be huge. But to use my example as a cautionary tale, you can get awful grades your 1st semester, not be competitive for the JAG for your 1L summer (which hires in January, after 1 semester of grades) and then face very stiff odds. The thing most people don't understand about law school is that 1 3 hour exam can be a gigantic roadblock to overcome. If you absolutely would not accept anything other than a JAG commission then law school is probably a bad idea.

[Pdk7]

Hey ya'll (huge disclaimer, 0L)

The only reason I'm interested in law school is for JAG. Is there something I can do either pre-law school or while in law school to drastically increase the likelihood of becoming a JAG officer? I'm honestly even okay with doing OCS now and doing law school on an extended leave program if that has a higher likelihood of success.

Alternatively, is going to law school for JAG just an infinitely bad idea?

I left active duty enlisted specifically to become a JAG officer...and I got selected but it was extremely stressful. Law school is hard enough as it is, but when you're tailoring your experience to meet JAG standards (which are very high) and you know you're doing it to get a job which you only have - at most- a 10-12% chance of getting, the stress factor is magnified. I think its fair to say that most law school students shoot to be in law review or other honors boards or in the top of their classes, but in this situation those things aren't really an option. Essentially every step you take from day one until the due dates for your applications must be taken very carefully and you can't afford to have any missteps. You really don't leave yourself with much wiggle/breathing room.

That being said, I must also say that I was already committed to the Army for active duty service following law school, it was just a matter of whether that service would be for JAG or in some other random branch, should I fail to make the cut. I really had no desire AT ALL do anything else so for me it was sort of a "do or die" situation. But on the other hand, either way there was still a job lined up for me after graduation and right now that is huge. Law school expensive, and a lot of us are now burdened with a very high amount of debt from student loans. I see a lot of stress and uncertainty among my classmates right now as they have to deal with studying for the bar and finding a job. Now that I'm at the end looking back, I would say to anyone looking to go to law school, for any reason, to take a very long hard look at their reasons for wanting to go and weigh them against the realities of the dismal job market and student loan debt. For some people its not worth it. But for others its an acceptable risk. At the end of the day, like everything in life, you just have to ask yourself how much you want this and what you're willing to do, go through, and endure, to get it. Think carefully and decide soon. Everything you do from here on out could have an impact on your appeal as a candidate.

[erik_1717]

No luck for me as well! First time applying and it will be the last time with Navy. Marine OCS this summer!!!!!

You should log on during your first libo weekend and tell us how it's going.

That's a great idea. I'm not sure if I'll have access to much though in terms of technology. I know I'll get my cell phone back, but I don't know if the update will be very long since I'd be typing on an iPhone. Hopefully I will be able to find a computer and give a good run down of how it's going.

[Moves like JAGger]

pardon if this has been answered before -- am I correct in the understanding that the 10 year public service loan forgiveness program applies to service in JAG?

[ZeroDay]

pardon if this has been answered before -- am I correct in the understanding that the 10 year public service loan forgiveness program applies to service in JAG?

yes

[wwUSMC84]

No luck for me as well! First time applying and it will be the last time with Navy. Marine OCS this summer!!!!!

You should log on during your first libo weekend and tell us how it's going.

That's a great idea. I'm not sure if I'll have access to much though in terms of technology. I know I'll get my cell phone back, but I don't know if the update will be very long since I'd be typing on an iPhone. Hopefully I will be able to find a computer and give a good run down of how it's going.

You can go to the Al Gray Research Center on base, which is within a short walking distance from Q-town where candidates love to congregate on liberty. They have plenty of computers avaiable.

If you have any questions about OCS, feel free to let me know. It's been awhile since I went through, but it never really changes. I hope you are in good running shape....

[Young Marino]

Sorry if this has already been addressed. But how tough are acceptance rates into the USAF graduate law program with no prior military experience?

[bouakedojo]

Sorry if this has already been addressed. But how tough are acceptance rates into the USAF graduate law program with no prior military experience?

I know that there were 3 GLP (1L) applicants selected last February and 4 OYCP (2L) applicants selected. A Captain told me that she called JAX and asked about the OYCP and they told her that there were a little over 100 applicants for the OYCP program, although I'm not sure how many for the GLP program.

[Young Marino]

Sorry if this has already been addressed. But how tough are acceptance rates into the USAF graduate law program with no prior military experience?

I know that there were 3 GLP (1L) applicants selected last February and 4 OYCP (2L) applicants selected. A Captain told me that she called JAX and asked about the OYCP and they told her that there were a little over 100 applicants for the OYCP program, although I'm not sure how many for the GLP program.

Do you mean 3 GLP candidates nationwide? I am taking a gap year. Anything you suggest doing to prepare besides getting in tip top shape?

[andythefir]

Do you mean 3 GLP candidates nationwide? I am taking a gap year. Anything you suggest doing to prepare besides getting in tip top shape?

In my interview for the OYCP being in top shape didn't seem to matter at all. They ask for a picture in a suit to make sure you don't have weight problems but other than that it didn't seem to make any difference.

[Patrick Bateman]

Do you mean 3 GLP candidates nationwide? I am taking a gap year. Anything you suggest doing to prepare besides getting in tip top shape?

In my interview for the OYCP being in top shape didn't seem to matter at all. They ask for a picture in a suit to make sure you don't have weight problems but other than that it didn't seem to make any difference.

Just my $.02 as I procrastinate in writing some motions:

Some there may be some SJAs that do not care about fitness but there are a lot that do. Given the four SJAs I've worked for, three put physical fitness (to include the fitness appearance of applicants) toward the top of their list. This also applies to the selection board that makes the ultimate decision - even if the SJA is laid back, one of the three on the panel may not.

While the photo is an easy screen for the true fatties, it is also pretty easy to tell folks that are athletic versus those that are just in acceptable shape. With highly competitive selection and with fitness being 100% in an applicant’s control, my recommendation remains to look/be as fit as possible.

In respect to GLP selection: 3 folks were selected, total, from the lot of applicants that applied for the annual GLP/OYCP board.