Military Law Forum

[Anonymous User]

Army Reserve direct commission candidate here undergoing accessions. Not receiving a lot of clarity from JARO on this point: I am close to swearing in and will be doing so about five months before heading to Ft. Moore. Will I have to drill between swearing in and going to DCC.

[ckndnr]

If anyone is familiar with how first assignments for AF works please let me know:
- someone once told me that if you request a location based on wanting to be near family, you are less likely to get it. is there any stock in that?
- my top choices for now are McGuire or Dover. How popular are those/how likely would it be for me to get those if I listed those with a couple others only
- can you get an active duty assignment at a reserve or national guard base?

[Patrick Bateman]

If anyone is familiar with how first assignments for AF works please let me know:
- someone once told me that if you request a location based on wanting to be near family, you are less likely to get it. is there any stock in that?
- my top choices for now are McGuire or Dover. How popular are those/how likely would it be for me to get those if I listed those with a couple others only
- can you get an active duty assignment at a reserve or national guard base?

I have also heard the family stuff and assignments, though it has always been apocryphal. If I put myself in the JAX mindset, I would think it is just more likely that in their hierarchy of considerations for a first assignment, at which one is at their most fungible, the "want to still be near mom/dad" has got to be pretty low.

McGuire and Dover are all solid assignments. It is reasonable to ask. You should also throw on Andrews and Bolling.

There are RegAF assignments at the Reserve bases like Grissom, Westover, Homestead, etc. But not as a first/second assignment. No in respect to ANG bases.

[Anonymous User]

Army Reserve direct commission candidate here undergoing accessions. Not receiving a lot of clarity from JARO on this point: I am close to swearing in and will be doing so about five months before heading to Ft. Moore. Will I have to drill between swearing in and going to DCC.

My understanding is that you won't be drilling between swearing in and going to DCC - I know some other branches have JAGs report to their unit before going to their branch's JAG school, but that's usually only after they've done the basic direct commission course. I couldn't imagine that you would be drilling without having received the basic training necessary to be an officer.

[Anonymous User]

How long did it take Y'all to get a MEPS appointment? I was accepted in December for Air Force JAG, and since then it feels like the process has stalled out. What is the normal time frame to get a MEPS appointment? Should I be concerned that its been 3 months and there's no movement. (The person I've been working with at the air force has ghosted me for the past couple weeks after I submitted medical information they requested) I'm a current attorney and it would be nice to be able to move forward so I'm not in limbo.

Thanks for any insights, I appreciate it.

[ckndnr]

How long did it take Y'all to get a MEPS appointment? I was accepted in December for Air Force JAG, and since then it feels like the process has stalled out. What is the normal time frame to get a MEPS appointment? Should I be concerned that its been 3 months and there's no movement. (The person I've been working with at the air force has ghosted me for the past couple weeks after I submitted medical information they requested) I'm a current attorney and it would be nice to be able to move forward so I'm not in limbo.

Thanks for any insights, I appreciate it.

My timeline might be a bit different since I took the Feb. Bar but I just had my MEPs appt yesterday & had a prescreening physical on 02/18. My CIV contact has been on and off on responding which...has been frustrating

[ckndnr]

Does anyone know how waivers work/if AF JAG grants waivers?

Had my MEPs physical yesterday and let accessions know that I'd need 2 waivers and haven't heard back regarding next steps

[Anonymous User]

Should I include my LSAT score on my resume for Army JAG? I know Navy, Air Force, and Marines all require you to submit your official LSAT score report with your JAG application, but it appears that Army for some reason does not require this. The thing is though that I scored a 170 on the LSAT so I was hoping for the chance to include it in my Army application, especially since my law school gpa is a bit lackluster (3.2x).

Ideally I would include my score on my resume and also submit my score report as an attached document, but since it's not listed as a requirement I don't want to come off as the douche bragging about his LSAT years after the fact when it's not even being asked for.

Any advice?

[LukeStarkiller]

What's the likelihood of deploying overseas in each of the Army/Navy/Air Force JAG Corps?
One recruiter has told me that deployments are so unlikely that unless you volunteer for one, you won't get one, but my sponsor for my summer internship (JAG, not saying which branch for privacy reasons) said that it's fairly likely.

[Bop]

What's the likelihood of deploying overseas in each of the Army/Navy/Air Force JAG Corps?
One recruiter has told me that deployments are so unlikely that unless you volunteer for one, you won't get one, but my sponsor for my summer internship (JAG, not saying which branch for privacy reasons) said that it's fairly likely.

I'm guessing the discrepancy between the answers you're receiving is the difference between looking at the short and long term. Plenty of 4 year CPTs never deploy, but over the course of a full 20 year career you'll almost certainly deploy at some point. The likelihood of deploying at any given time depends on your unit and job, and also the state of global affairs.

In the Army, for example, JAGs assigned FORSCOM or Special Forces units tend to have a drastically higher chance to deploy than TRADOC (training) units. On the job side of things, a Brigade JAG or a National Security Law attorney is more likely to deploy with their units than a Military Justice attorney. None of these things in any way guarantee a deployment or lack thereof, but there are noticeable patterns in deployments that you can take into consideration when requesting jobs and assignment locations.

[Patrick Bateman]

What's the likelihood of deploying overseas in each of the Army/Navy/Air Force JAG Corps?
One recruiter has told me that deployments are so unlikely that unless you volunteer for one, you won't get one, but my sponsor for my summer internship (JAG, not saying which branch for privacy reasons) said that it's fairly likely.

On the Air Force side, things are evolving as we are now under the AFFORGEN model. Folks are still deploying but the how/when is changing to some degree.

I'd say if you are looking to go and put you hand up, you have a shot - a lot will come down to luck/timing and other factors outside of your control. Some assignments like ADC are non-deployable. And if you miss your shot as an O-3 and really want to do it, there are some career moves you can make that can increase your odds of going downrange as a FGO (I-Law LLM, etc). Or just wait to become the Deputy SJA at a base legal office, as they seem to get tapped with a high frequency these days.

[wrstlelawgorl]

Hey everyone
Long time lurker here (even before law school) lol. Found out a while ago I was selected as an alternate for Navy, and was selected primary for AF. Just waiting on waivers for both to decide which route to go. I am torn because I feel dumb passing up the opportunity for 65k in student loan repayments, and the AF has a lot more bases that are closer to my family in the Midwest. I am concerned about how much more civil law the AF does. But, my dad was in the Navy, and I think the Navy is cooler, but I am not a huge fan of any of the base options for the first two years-- one of the bases is where I was born and raised, and I am apprehensive about Florida or San Diego. And, again, I feel stupid for even thinking about passing up 65k in student loan money if I were to go Navy, but I have a weird impression that maybe Navy JAG is a tiny bit more prestigious?
How did others make their decision? Any Navy JAGs here who wish they had gone AF? Or vice versa?

For any other lurkers who are worried about their chances-- I have a shit LSAT score, I go to an essentially unranked law school in the Midwest, and I have a GPA right on the curve there as well. And my undergrad GPA is middling at best. Also my letters of rec were nothing crazy. A professor who used to work for the CIA, a former boss, another professor, and an old coach. But, I do have in my favor a strong family connection to the military meaning I could play up knowing how the lifestyle works, I played a D2 sport, and have a demonstrable public service history. So, ymmv.

[Patrick Bateman]

Hey everyone
Long time lurker here (even before law school) lol. Found out a while ago I was selected as an alternate for Navy, and was selected primary for AF. Just waiting on waivers for both to decide which route to go. I am torn because I feel dumb passing up the opportunity for 65k in student loan repayments, and the AF has a lot more bases that are closer to my family in the Midwest. I am concerned about how much more civil law the AF does. But, my dad was in the Navy, and I think the Navy is cooler, but I am not a huge fan of any of the base options for the first two years-- one of the bases is where I was born and raised, and I am apprehensive about Florida or San Diego. And, again, I feel stupid for even thinking about passing up 65k in student loan money if I were to go Navy, but I have a weird impression that maybe Navy JAG is a tiny bit more prestigious?
How did others make their decision? Any Navy JAGs here who wish they had gone AF? Or vice versa?

For any other lurkers who are worried about their chances-- I have a shit LSAT score, I go to an essentially unranked law school in the Midwest, and I have a GPA right on the curve there as well. And my undergrad GPA is middling at best. Also my letters of rec were nothing crazy. A professor who used to work for the CIA, a former boss, another professor, and an old coach. But, I do have in my favor a strong family connection to the military meaning I could play up knowing how the lifestyle works, I played a D2 sport, and have a demonstrable public service history. So, ymmv.

Congrats on the selections.

With your family background, you are better informed than most on what you'd be signing up for in the Navy.

I am not too sure how much the civil law concern holds up in respect to the Air Force. You'll touch a bunch of things as an Air Force O-3. You may have a civil law based duty title for a year at base legal, but you will likely be litigating courts and boards that whole time regardless. Everyone has to suck it up for legal assistance regardless of if you are in a military justice or civil law billet.

In my time as an O-3, I had exactly one year with a civil law based duty title. The rest was in justice, deployed, ADC, and beyond. And the year with a civil law OIC role I was at a busy military justice base where I was able to still have a lot of courtroom time.

In terms of the "prestige" - prestigious to whom and in what context? With 15 years in, I really don't buy that at all, for any service. The different services offer different opportunities and a chance to serve in different ways - some people are are better suited for a particular services over others. There are excellent JAGs in all - and some less than excellent JAGs in all.

You need to really dial into exactly what service means to you and how you want to carry that out. The geography is not a permanent thing (even if you get a close to home base for one AF assignment, the remainder are probably going to be outside of the Midwest), some time in civil law is not a permanent thing, and the prestige concept is not real. The $65K for SLRP is real for the Air Force. The chance to serve on a ship is real for the Navy. Identify the objective markers between the two and what is most important to you personally/professionally.

[wet_tissue_paper22]

Hey all,

Do any Army JAG folks have any insight into the waiver process? I recently received a single DQ and am waiting for further guidance from JARO. I'd be curious to see if anyone has any recent experience - I understand that the JAG Corps itself is its own waiver authority. Do they tend to be relatively liberal with waivers? Is the three to six month timeline fairly accurate? I'm wondering if things are moving faster than usual - I received my DODMERB DQ determination within 24 hours of them receiving it, so would be stoked to hear if that might carry over to the JAG waiver authority.

[LukeStarkiller]

If you commission into the JAG Corps after 3L, how long after graduation is your first day of work(/pay), and when does the four year commitment start tolling: four years after commissioning, or four years after the first day of work?

[Bop]

Hey all,

Do any Army JAG folks have any insight into the waiver process? I recently received a single DQ and am waiting for further guidance from JARO. I'd be curious to see if anyone has any recent experience - I understand that the JAG Corps itself is its own waiver authority. Do they tend to be relatively liberal with waivers? Is the three to six month timeline fairly accurate? I'm wondering if things are moving faster than usual - I received my DODMERB DQ determination within 24 hours of them receiving it, so would be stoked to hear if that might carry over to the JAG waiver authority.

JARO will be able to give more precise advice on the timeline than any of us. It depends on how backed up the system is, how desperate they are to get you slotted in one training class over another, and the complexity of your waiver. My waiver took a few months. I got DQed in early January and was waived in late March.

They tend to be a bit more liberal on minor waivers than the normal Army, but some issues are still non-starters. It depends on the waiver.

If you commission into the JAG Corps after 3L, how long after graduation is your first day of work(/pay), and when does the four year commitment start tolling: four years after commissioning, or four years after the first day of work?

In the Army, you commission on your first day of work (day 1 of DCC). That's when the clock starts.

You cannot go to DCC until you have passed your state's bar exam. The typical timeline is: graduate law school in the spring, take the Bar in July, get results in the fall, and go to DCC in January or April depending on how fast your state releases results.

[wet_tissue_paper22]

Hey all,

Do any Army JAG folks have any insight into the waiver process? I recently received a single DQ and am waiting for further guidance from JARO. I'd be curious to see if anyone has any recent experience - I understand that the JAG Corps itself is its own waiver authority. Do they tend to be relatively liberal with waivers? Is the three to six month timeline fairly accurate? I'm wondering if things are moving faster than usual - I received my DODMERB DQ determination within 24 hours of them receiving it, so would be stoked to hear if that might carry over to the JAG waiver authority.

JARO will be able to give more precise advice on the timeline than any of us. It depends on how backed up the system is, how desperate they are to get you slotted in one training class over another, and the complexity of your waiver. My waiver took a few months. I got DQed in early January and was waived in late March.

They tend to be a bit more liberal on minor waivers than the normal Army, but some issues are still non-starters. It depends on the waiver.

If you commission into the JAG Corps after 3L, how long after graduation is your first day of work(/pay), and when does the four year commitment start tolling: four years after commissioning, or four years after the first day of work?

In the Army, you commission on your first day of work (day 1 of DCC). That's when the clock starts.

You cannot go to DCC until you have passed your state's bar exam. The typical timeline is: graduate law school in the spring, take the Bar in July, get results in the fall, and go to DCC in January or April depending on how fast your state releases results.

Awesome, thanks so much for your response! That's helpful to know that JARO's previous guidance was roughly on point in your case (I'm hopeful that my waiver condition will be considered "simple"). If you don't mind me asking a brief follow-up, did that end up shifting your training date to the right? I previously requested Jan. 2025 as my own DCC start date and would love to keep that date if at all possible (recognizing that no two applicant experiences are the same - I am mostly asking because JARO seems swamped and am trying to manage my own expectations without bothering them on low-level questions like this)

[Bop]

Awesome, thanks so much for your response! That's helpful to know that JARO's previous guidance was roughly on point in your case (I'm hopeful that my waiver condition will be considered "simple"). If you don't mind me asking a brief follow-up, did that end up shifting your training date to the right? I previously requested Jan. 2025 as my own DCC start date and would love to keep that date if at all possible (recognizing that no two applicant experiences are the same - I am mostly asking because JARO seems swamped and am trying to manage my own expectations without bothering them on low-level questions like this)

No, but it was darn close to pushing my date to the right. Funny story actually, my waiver was approved 5 days before I left for DCC. JARO even asked if I needed to move my ship date to August to make more time to pack up my place/leave my current job. I was so unhappy at my civilian job at the time that I told them I'd find a way to move my life in 5 days (truth be told, they had put me on alert a few weeks prior that they were willing to shove me into the April DCC class even if my waiver was approved at the last moment, so I was prepared for a quick turn-around).

If your heart is set on January 2025, make it known and they'll work with you.

[Bp06]

Has anyone heard from the Navy Spring board?

[wet_tissue_paper22]

Awesome, thanks so much for your response! That's helpful to know that JARO's previous guidance was roughly on point in your case (I'm hopeful that my waiver condition will be considered "simple"). If you don't mind me asking a brief follow-up, did that end up shifting your training date to the right? I previously requested Jan. 2025 as my own DCC start date and would love to keep that date if at all possible (recognizing that no two applicant experiences are the same - I am mostly asking because JARO seems swamped and am trying to manage my own expectations without bothering them on low-level questions like this)

No, but it was darn close to pushing my date to the right. Funny story actually, my waiver was approved 5 days before I left for DCC. JARO even asked if I needed to move my ship date to August to make more time to pack up my place/leave my current job. I was so unhappy at my civilian job at the time that I told them I'd find a way to move my life in 5 days (truth be told, they had put me on alert a few weeks prior that they were willing to shove me into the April DCC class even if my waiver was approved at the last moment, so I was prepared for a quick turn-around).

If your heart is set on January 2025, make it known and they'll work with you.

Wow, that's an incredible turnaround lol. Also reassuring to hear that they can accommodate tight timeframes.

Thanks again for the information - much appreciated!

[Anonymous User]

Hi everyone, I'm currently a candidate in accessions for Army Reserve direct commission. I need two medical waivers. I know I'm supposed to submit a waiver request memo to JARO, but I'm unclear as to what, if any, additional medical documentation I'm supposed to submit. Should I submit additional medical documentation (like new doctors evaluations, letters of rec, etc.) unprompted along with my request or should I just submit my request and wait to hear if they need or want additional documentation? I want to submit the best case I can, so any guidance you all can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[hgbrown910]

Has anyone heard from the Navy Spring board?

Nope.