Military Law Forum

[Patrick Bateman]

Does anyone have any info on becoming a Special Assistant United State's Attorney (SAUSA) as a JAG? Is it only on certain bases? Only for certain branches? Is it something you can apply for once you're a JAG?
It seems like the perfect step to eventually becoming a ASUA.

I've been a JAG and am currently an AUSA in a large east coast office. My view of JAG-SAUSAs changed quite a bit when my perspective did.

As a JAG, I saw those positions as something to reach for, and thought they would be a good stepping stone to a career in DOJ.

As an AUSA, I think that you're far better off dedicating time to working felony UCMJ cases instead of petty misdemeanor civilian violations.

Being a JAG shows that you're interested in public service; felony case experience will showcase your abilities more than handling some dependent who drove 5mph over the limit.

This answer is spot on.

There was also a SAUSA discussion a few pages back:

viewtopic.php?f=68&t=31543&hilit=Sausa& ... #p10537662

[Anonymous User]

FYI, for anyone looking into Army JAG, now is the best time you'll ever have to apply. The entire Army JAG Corps just received a fairly pointed (and to be frank, desperate) email that recruiting numbers are WAY down. Direct commission applications are down 30% last cycle from 2021, which were already down from previous years.

Add that to the rapid expansion that the JAG Corps is facing because of some new Congressional mandates, and it needs people.

Why are their applications way down? That's not a good sign is it?

Also how long do attorneys stay in and why do they leave?

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone heard from the AF following the April DAP board? I know they met April 10, and have been told—if you are selected—you’ll hear back from them pretty quick.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve checked and looks like the last couple of spring application cycles the applicants received a call back by now. Has anyone received a call yet?

[Anonymous User]

For anyone wondering Navy Student Program decisions went out yesterday. Got the call, I made it in! Feel free to pick my brain.

[Bop]

FYI, for anyone looking into Army JAG, now is the best time you'll ever have to apply. The entire Army JAG Corps just received a fairly pointed (and to be frank, desperate) email that recruiting numbers are WAY down. Direct commission applications are down 30% last cycle from 2021, which were already down from previous years.

Add that to the rapid expansion that the JAG Corps is facing because of some new Congressional mandates, and it needs people.

Why are their applications way down? That's not a good sign is it?

Also how long do attorneys stay in and why do they leave?

It doesn't have anything to do with JAG itself (from what I can tell anyways), Army JAG retention has been steady for a few years now. But there are a few different factors at play that probably contribute to the issue:

The legal market was great for brand new lawyers over the past few years, so less people were mass applying or applying to fallback positions. So JAG naturally had way less applications. Now that the market is falling a bit, we will see if the applications rubber band back in the other direction over the next year or two; only time will tell.

At the same, the Army JAG Corps is very rapidly expanding, so it has more seats to fill than prior years. Plus, military recruiting across the board is down right now.

Also how long do attorneys stay in and why do they leave?

The two big break points for staying or leaving in the Army are the initial contract at 4 years, and hitting Major at 6-7 years where you either go to the Major course and incur an additional service obligation, or turn down the Major course and end your career.

The most common reason people leave is for family. Moving around a lot is very hard on families, especially for spouses trying to build their own career. JAG is also a lot of work for a salary that, while not awful, is not competitive with big law. And some people leave because they end up not liking the job or their leadership.

[lawman95]

I’ve checked and looks like the last couple of spring application cycles the applicants received a call back by now. Has anyone received a call yet?

If you’re talking about AF, no, nothing yet. 2021 people found out April 27, and it was around that same date last year. I was told to check the application website. As long as it still says something along the lines of “you can’t change your application until a decision has been reached,” they haven’t released results yet.

[Anonymous User]

AF application portal was updated. Good luck, everyone!

[Anonymous User]

Hello all,

Navy DAP select here and I’m wondering if anyone has had any experience with MEPS and a previous ACL surgery? Also, wondering what the timeline was between potentially receiving a waiver and commissioning with a previous ACL Injury.

[Specialpros123454321]

Hello all,

Navy DAP select here and I’m wondering if anyone has had any experience with MEPS and a previous ACL surgery? Also, wondering what the timeline was between potentially receiving a waiver and commissioning with a previous ACL Injury.

Not a Navy select, but doing Army Reserve JAG and did MEPs for Marine Corp Jags a few years ago. I had had two ACL surgeries a decade ago, ended up having to get a few waivers, which were granted. DM if you want more specifics

[interestedinmore03]

About how long did the process take? I’d send a PM but i’m new here so I’m not currently authorized to do that unfortunately

[Anonymous User]

FYI, for anyone looking into Army JAG, now is the best time you'll ever have to apply. The entire Army JAG Corps just received a fairly pointed (and to be frank, desperate) email that recruiting numbers are WAY down. Direct commission applications are down 30% last cycle from 2021, which were already down from previous years.

Add that to the rapid expansion that the JAG Corps is facing because of some new Congressional mandates, and it needs people.

Why are their applications way down? That's not a good sign is it?

Also how long do attorneys stay in and why do they leave?

It doesn't have anything to do with JAG itself (from what I can tell anyways), Army JAG retention has been steady for a few years now. But there are a few different factors at play that probably contribute to the issue:

The legal market was great for brand new lawyers over the past few years, so less people were mass applying or applying to fallback positions. So JAG naturally had way less applications. Now that the market is falling a bit, we will see if the applications rubber band back in the other direction over the next year or two; only time will tell.

At the same, the Army JAG Corps is very rapidly expanding, so it has more seats to fill than prior years. Plus, military recruiting across the board is down right now.

Also how long do attorneys stay in and why do they leave?

The two big break points for staying or leaving in the Army are the initial contract at 4 years, and hitting Major at 6-7 years where you either go to the Major course and incur an additional service obligation, or turn down the Major course and end your career.

The most common reason people leave is for family. Moving around a lot is very hard on families, especially for spouses trying to build their own career. JAG is also a lot of work for a salary that, while not awful, is not competitive with big law. And some people leave because they end up not liking the job or their

[ShoTime_17]

What're the daily hours usually like for JAG attorneys? And do you get weekends off, or do you have to use two of your 30 days of paid leave if you want to take a weekend off?

Also, I'll be interning with a JAG office this summer, and I'm curious about the dress code. What do male interns usually wear? Is suit/tie necessary?

Thanks for the help!

[Anonymous User]

Air Force DAP calls are going out today. Good luck, everyone!

[psalom625]

What're the daily hours usually like for JAG attorneys? And do you get weekends off, or do you have to use two of your 30 days of paid leave if you want to take a weekend off?

Also, I'll be interning with a JAG office this summer, and I'm curious about the dress code. What do male interns usually wear? Is suit/tie necessary?

Thanks for the help!

When I interned at Travis AFB, I hardly saw any JA's working weekends. Leave wouldn't be required to take a weekend.

I wore business casual (slacks, button down, brown shoes).

[kparkzz]

Hi everyone - new to this thread. I just got an e-mail saying I was accepted for Army JAG active duty.

I am kind of wondering what next steps are:

How long before the portal to submit the letter of intent opens
How soon I have to go through MEPS if I am requesting to be April of 2024 class (for work/personal reasons - it was an option)

any other next steps in general.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

I am going through the NASIS application with the Navy and I was wondering if being half siblings with someone who came to America validly but their paperwork has since expired would get me disqualified for security clearance? Obviously I disclosed it but I’m so worried it will ruin things for me.

[psalom625]

Hi everyone - new to this thread. I just got an e-mail saying I was accepted for Army JAG active duty.

I am kind of wondering what next steps are:

How long before the portal to submit the letter of intent opens
How soon I have to go through MEPS if I am requesting to be April of 2024 class (for work/personal reasons - it was an option)

any other next steps in general.

Thanks!

1) FWIW, I was accepted mid Nov, then was sent a drop box link the following week.

[Bop]

Hi everyone - new to this thread. I just got an e-mail saying I was accepted for Army JAG active duty.

I am kind of wondering what next steps are:

How long before the portal to submit the letter of intent opens
How soon I have to go through MEPS if I am requesting to be April of 2024 class (for work/personal reasons - it was an option)

any other next steps in general.

Thanks!

Congrats on your acceptance! Unless things have changed recently, direct commission Army JAGs don't go to MEPS, you use DoDMERB instead. It's all done through a website where they will assign you a local doctor/optometrist for your exams. Then you can just schedule those appointments around your work schedule. They will give you deadlines, but if you're not trying to expedite your processing, you should have plenty of time.

[Patrick Bateman]

What're the daily hours usually like for JAG attorneys? And do you get weekends off, or do you have to use two of your 30 days of paid leave if you want to take a weekend off?

Also, I'll be interning with a JAG office this summer, and I'm curious about the dress code. What do male interns usually wear? Is suit/tie necessary?

Thanks for the help!

Weekends are going to be off like normal (no leave required) as long as you are within a certain geographic radius - this can vary depending on the installation commander but often is something in terms of within a multiple hour drive. But a normal weekend at home or the local area is not charged leave.

Daily hours for the active duty JAGs will vary on the assignment. Some base legal offices are very busy and will have longer hours, particularly if you are preparing for a court or a board. Other bases may see less military justice and will be less crazy as a result. And then there is always the phenomenon of a quiet base suddenly getting very busy due to a drug ring or something leading to multiple courts all around the same time.

Your hours as a civilian intern will be the normal 9-5 or whatever is set for civilians in that office.

For attire, I would be in a suit for your first day and assess from there. You will generally be fine with khakis and a button up - I always wore a tie as an intern with a navy sport coat I kept in my office if something came up.

[Anonymous User]

I tried to search for this answer but not finding a recent one.

So I’ll ask it. Regarding drug use, say, a harder drug like cocaine, LSD, etc.,

How negative is that on an AF JAG application? Is that an automatic DQ?

I read somewhere that the AF no longer DQs for prior drug use, but I wasn't sure if that was only for enlisted and not commissioned.

For reference, 1-time “trial” about ten years ago.

[psalom625]

Anyone know a UBE state that has a quick turn around time from start of application to swearing in?

[Anonymous User]

Regarding drug use, say, a harder drug like cocaine, LSD, etc.,
How negative is that on an AF JAG application? Is that an automatic DQ?
...
For reference, 1-time “trial” about ten years ago.

1-time use 10 years ago is not automatic DQ. AFI 51-101 para 5.2 and AFMAN 36-2032 para 5.4 are the eligibility rules. 5.4.11 treats drug use as a medical matter, disqualifying if your currently using drugs or have history of drug abuse disorder. 10 years ago isnt current, 1-time trial isnt a disorder.

will it impact your application? maybe, prob depends on number of avail slots and quality of your application compared to other applicants. never been on a selection board, so I cant say much more than that.

Army JAG application doesnt ask about prior drug use.

[ShortTimeLurker]

I've been lurking this thread for years and I'm finally a rising 3L getting ready to apply to the JAG Corps. I could use some guidance on picking a branch. Shoutout to ya'll for the knowledge, especially Patrick.

I interned with both the Air Force and Army JAG Corps. I want to join to get national security law (operations law) experience and then move to something like the DOD Office of General Counsel's International Affairs Division. (Or any similar agency that advises on national security law.)

I know that the Air Force makes everyone a generalist - prosecuting cases, legal assistance, and miscellaneous administrative law issues. I like that because I like the idea of some practice diversity, and I enjoy trial advocacy a lot. As I understand it, when they notice you're good at something they start throwing more of that at you. I have been advised to be patient for those opportunities and seek assignments at bases with a heavier operational focus, like Hurlburt.

In the Army, I know that you usually start by doing legal assistance for the first year and nothing else. After that you do what you're told, but I hear the Army has more need of national security law practice and has a few NSL-dedicated shops, including in the Pentagon. I'll also admit jump school is a teenage fantasy of mine. But I'm worried about getting stuck in jobs I don't like.

Any thoughts?

[Bop]

I've been lurking this thread for years and I'm finally a rising 3L getting ready to apply to the JAG Corps. I could use some guidance on picking a branch. Shoutout to ya'll for the knowledge, especially Patrick.

I interned with both the Air Force and Army JAG Corps. I want to join to get national security law (operations law) experience and then move to something like the DOD Office of General Counsel's International Affairs Division. (Or any similar agency that advises on national security law.)

I know that the Air Force makes everyone a generalist - prosecuting cases, legal assistance, and miscellaneous administrative law issues. I like that because I like the idea of some practice diversity, and I enjoy trial advocacy a lot. As I understand it, when they notice you're good at something they start throwing more of that at you. I have been advised to be patient for those opportunities and seek assignments at bases with a heavier operational focus, like Hurlburt.

In the Army, I know that you usually start by doing legal assistance for the first year and nothing else. After that you do what you're told, but I hear the Army has more need of national security law practice and has a few NSL-dedicated shops, including in the Pentagon. I'll also admit jump school is a teenage fantasy of mine. But I'm worried about getting stuck in jobs I don't like.

Any thoughts?

Can speak on the Army perspective.

It is true that you aren't going to start in NSL, and in fact, you aren't likely to touch NSL until the back half of your CPT years (most NSL jobs are O4+). They want NSL attorneys to have strong military bearings so they aren't going to throw them into the fire right off the bat. I have seen a CPT get it as their second assignment, right after Administrative Law (his starting point), but that's not common.

The vast majority of CPTs do some combination of Legal Assistance, Administrative Law, Special Victims' Counsel, SAUSA, Military Justice Advisor/Trial Counsel, or Trial Defense Services as their first 2-3 jobs.

Then once you finish your initial jobs, the doors swing wide open. You will get more opportunity to craft your career once you get some initial work under your belt, and especially when you PCS. That's when you can really gun for NSL.

I'll also admit jump school is a teenage fantasy of mine.

I graduated jump school in May, there were 4 total JAGs in my class. If you're in an Airborne/Special Forces unit it's pretty easy to go. Hell, my unit has a JAG Jumpmaster. If you're hellbent on going to Airborne school, the easiest way is to just ask to get sent to Fort Liberty. Every single major command on Fort Liberty is willing to send their JAGs to airborne school; 82nd, 18th, 3rd Group, and 1SFC.

Also, I am compelled by law to link this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ6QX-OsWUc