JAG to BigLaw Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi,

I’m finishing a JAG tour and received an offer from a BigLaw firm in a practice area I’ve wanted since law school. I’m still wrestling with giving up a recession-proof job with a guaranteed pension for a job without those things for roughly the same pay*, but this is likely my only chance to do sophisticated work in a practice area I’m interested in with the prospects of a much more lucrative future than what a govt salary will earn.

Are partner prospects so slim that this would be a foolish move? Is there a palpable “I might lose my job if I have an off day” fear as an associate?

I really dislike military legal work and love the people I’ve met at the firm, but there is a ton of gloom and doom out there from folks who go BigLaw (I have no idea what 1850 billables would feel like, but 60 hour weeks as a trial atty is my norm) and I don’t have a great sense for what successful laterals do if they don’t make partner...which is much less predictable than picking up the next rank in the military. Am I crazy to make this jump without more $?

I know I’m skimpy on the details here. I don’t want to out myself

*(Yes...the benefits+salary+housing allowance+reduced IBR loan payments make the $ about the same. Comparing the salary trajectories I won’t start taking home more pay until a 5-6th year associate. Just push the “I believe” button...)

[Anonymous User]

I'd say that the JAG experience is much more relaxing generally. Yes, you have trial weeks, but I'm really doubtful you're doing 60hrs/week in trial prep. The base I was at as a summer intern had one of the largest dockets in our command, and that was not the life of any of our attorneys, even during busy season. They had a lot more 9-5 type weeks than they did 60hr weeks. Sure, you have to workout, go to change of commands, etc., but none of that seemed very stressful. Once everyone left work for the day, they were pretty much off, except the rotational on-call person.

In comparison, in biglaw you're on call 24/7. 1850 is not a reasonable target if you want to keep your job long term. And, you're definitely not making income partner, let alone equity partner, phoning in 1850 years. 2000+ is a reasonable line to stay employed, and I imagine most people who make partner are in the 2200+ range (plus are extremely lucky and competent).

Hours aside, I was really excited to join the JAG Corps until I really experienced the summer. Serving your country is great. Being in the location I was at was great. The people were great. You know what wasn't great? The legal work. Generally, it was just really unsophisticated and boring. You were basically a DA but in the military. Sure, you get to rotate through other areas of the law (if a civilian is not occupying that post), but those also seemed really bland. Our labor person was the only person that I thought had interesting work, and I thought the work was interesting due to how hilarious it frequently was and not due to its complexity. Meanwhile, my biglaw work is much more complex and high stakes. I never go to trial (or likely ever will), but that's something I really wasn't that interested in doing anyway.

I don't doubt you at all on the compensation front. JAG is pretty much the most lucrative government gig, and JAGs life pretty damn cushy lives in frequently very low COL areas.

IMO, if you want to keep trying simple cases, enjoy a chill lifestyle, get great pension, and don't mind PCS, stay in JAG. If you want to pretty much never try a case, get more complex work, make more money in the medium term, and likely never make partner (or at least equity partner) but are OK with being a perpetual "counsel" making like $400-$500k for biglaw hours, then biglaw is for you.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you so much for this thoughtful feedback. The way you framed the issues ring true. My hours are more demanding than what you described, but that’s due to some manning issues we’ve been dealing with for about 18 months...I agree that most JAGs have a cushy life. And it gets even cushier (or numbing—choose your characterization) when you get out to pasture as an SJA after your trial time has ended. In any event, the quantity of administrivia (it’s insane...)and nature of the work (which is basically, as you described, what a mid-level ADA in a sex crimes unit does) is certainly pushing hard towards the firm.

I really appreciate the clarity on the hours. I really have no frame of reference since I was gung go JAG all of law school. I never summered. But I loved law school, did really well, and wish I had a better idea now that I’m at this juncture. Thank you!

[Wubbles]

Anon above stated that 1850 isn't realistic for keeping your job long term, but I'd like to point out that OP did not say which market the biglaw offer is in. If it's closer to regional biglaw, i.e. Cleveland, Minneapolis, Nashville, etc. then 1850 might be a true target

[Anonymous User]

Yes, it would be a secondary market in one of those cities Wubbkes cites. Thanks for the clarity, Wubbles

[Anonymous User]

Anon above stated that 1850 isn't realistic for keeping your job long term, but I'd like to point out that OP did not say which market the biglaw offer is in. If it's closer to regional biglaw, i.e. Cleveland, Minneapolis, Nashville, etc. then 1850 might be a true target

Anon from above. +1 to this comment. Regional biglaw is a different beast that comes with lower hours and compensation and frequently higher partnership prospects.

[howell]

I recently left the AF JAG Corps for one of the large labor & employment firms. Here were a few things I considered leading into the transition.

Moving - Not sure which branch you're in, but we moved every 2 years (or more frequently), and the spouse wasn't in a portable career. Picture your family situation over the next 10+ years for all those moves.

Career after JAG - Picture yourself at retirement age and your retirement pay. It's likely not "fuck you" money, and/or you might actually want to do something with your time. A lot of JAGs facing retirement haven't done real legal work in 10, 15, or more years. That job hunt can be very challenging. On the other hand, bailing at the 4-10 year point puts you on the job market at your most marketable and lets you build a career you won't age out of so soon. This was a big deal for me, especially since I joined late (early 30s). I'd be early 50s after my 20, on the market after 5-10 years of management positions. Seemed terrible.

Guard/Reserves - Depending on your firm, this is doable. We have several Reservists and Guardsmen at our firm. You can still stay tied in with the enjoyable parts of the military, get a retirement, and get (likely) much cheaper health insurance. If you're in the Air Force and are looking to settle down, I would strongly encourage joining the Guard over the Reserves.

I'm willing to share more details and answer other questions over PM if you're interested.

ETA: Also consider posting in the Military Law thread. We cover transitions in there too.

[Anonymous User]

I recently left the AF JAG Corps for one of the large labor & employment firms. Here were a few things I considered leading into the transition.

Moving - Not sure which branch you're in, but we moved every 2 years (or more frequently), and the spouse wasn't in a portable career. Picture your family situation over the next 10+ years for all those moves.

Career after JAG - Picture yourself at retirement age and your retirement pay. It's likely not "fuck you" money, and/or you might actually want to do something with your time. A lot of JAGs facing retirement haven't done real legal work in 10, 15, or more years. That job hunt can be very challenging. On the other hand, bailing at the 4-10 year point puts you on the job market at your most marketable and lets you build a career you won't age out of so soon. This was a big deal for me, especially since I joined late (early 30s). I'd be early 50s after my 20, on the market after 5-10 years of management positions. Seemed terrible.

Guard/Reserves - Depending on your firm, this is doable. We have several Reservists and Guardsmen at our firm. You can still stay tied in with the enjoyable parts of the military, get a retirement, and get (likely) much cheaper health insurance. If you're in the Air Force and are looking to settle down, I would strongly encourage joining the Guard over the Reserves.

I'm willing to share more details and answer other questions over PM if you're interested.

ETA: Also consider posting in the Military Law thread. We cover transitions in there too.

Thanks, Howell! Going to PM you on a couple details/follow-ups.

[TankHunter08]

I recently left the AF JAG Corps for one of the large labor & employment firms. Here were a few things I considered leading into the transition.

Moving - Not sure which branch you're in, but we moved every 2 years (or more frequently), and the spouse wasn't in a portable career. Picture your family situation over the next 10+ years for all those moves.

Career after JAG - Picture yourself at retirement age and your retirement pay. It's likely not "fuck you" money, and/or you might actually want to do something with your time. A lot of JAGs facing retirement haven't done real legal work in 10, 15, or more years. That job hunt can be very challenging. On the other hand, bailing at the 4-10 year point puts you on the job market at your most marketable and lets you build a career you won't age out of so soon. This was a big deal for me, especially since I joined late (early 30s). I'd be early 50s after my 20, on the market after 5-10 years of management positions. Seemed terrible.

Guard/Reserves - Depending on your firm, this is doable. We have several Reservists and Guardsmen at our firm. You can still stay tied in with the enjoyable parts of the military, get a retirement, and get (likely) much cheaper health insurance. If you're in the Air Force and are looking to settle down, I would strongly encourage joining the Guard over the Reserves.

I'm willing to share more details and answer other questions over PM if you're interested.

ETA: Also consider posting in the Military Law thread. We cover transitions in there too.

Well it looks like the PM feature has been taken down since I last posted during law school a handful of years ago. Howell, do folks just email now?

[howell]

Well it looks like the PM feature has been taken down since I last posted during law school a handful of years ago. Howell, do folks just email now?

You can use airforcejagquestions@gmail.com. I'll then reply from my normal account.

[QContinuum]

Well it looks like the PM feature has been taken down since I last posted during law school a handful of years ago. Howell, do folks just email now?

FYI, uses with less than 5 posts are not able to send PMs. However, they are still able to receive/read PMs from other users.

Users with 5 or more posts continue to be able to both send and receive PMs as before.