3L Public Defender Applications Forum

[BlueLotus]

If anyone has interned with Bronx Defenders Family Defense Practice, please PM me with details!

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know if you are required to apply to Brooklyn Defender Services through EJW or OCI at one of the schools they list on the website? Do they not allow direct applications?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know if you are required to apply to Brooklyn Defender Services through EJW or OCI at one of the schools they list on the website? Do they not allow direct applications?

They do allow direct, but I would do EJW if you can. You can reapply direct if not preselected.

[BlueLotus]

Heard of anyone who got a FTLT jerb thru table talk alone?

[spleenworship]

Heard of anyone who got a FTLT jerb thru table talk alone?

I got to the final round interview with Miami via table talk.

[Anonymous User]

Heard of anyone who got a FTLT jerb thru table talk alone?

I got my job through table talk. My other two offers were from EJW preselects. I had one sort-of offer through a non-EJW office (sort-of because they said I would have to move out there before getting my confirmed offer...that wasn't in the cards for me.)

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know anything about appellate hiring at PD offices? I know there are way fewer jobs than for trial attorney positions, but I have top grades and will be coming off a federal clerkship. Do I have any chance?

You have a number of offices in NYC that exclusively do appeals. I think a few other states might have separate appeals offices as well. I met a person from one of the NY appeals offices that was trying to get a straight ahead PD job but was only able to get the job at the appeals office post law school. Almost all of them hire 3Ls for 2 year fellowship type things.

--LinkRemoved--
http://www.appellatedefender.org/Employment.html

I don't know where you're looking, but I interned at LAS's appellate division for a little over a year. They just hired a class of 6 and their hiring is based solely on how much funding they receive for the year. I know that 6 is a big class for them. The hiring is done separate from the trial office. Unlike the trial office there is no time commitment, but they also hire for longer than 2 years. They prefer people with appellate experience and obviously, dedication to indigent defense. You're in a good position- I did not have top grades but they were impressed with my work, so I plan to go back to appeals after I am done at my trial office. Because they hire so few, their hiring process is very competitive.

[BlueLotus]

Just sent a flurry of PD apps to EJW.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if LAS will be giving significantly less offers since the criminal practice isn't even attending ejw

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if LAS will be giving significantly less offers since the criminal practice isn't even attending ejw

I heard LAS is estimating that they are hiring 40 instead of 70 (as in some previous years).

[BlueLotus]

I wonder if LAS will be giving significantly less offers since the criminal practice isn't even attending ejw

I heard LAS is estimating that they are hiring 40 instead of 70 (as in some previous years).

How many spots in the Juvenile Rights Practice are open?

[Anonymous User]

BDS hired 9 this year, if that info is useful to anyone. It seems unlikely that they will hire in the double digits ever again like they did during a couple years of growth.

ETA: 3 were former summer interns.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder if LAS will be giving significantly less offers since the criminal practice isn't even attending ejw

I heard LAS is estimating that they are hiring 40 instead of 70 (as in some previous years).

How many spots in the Juvenile Rights Practice are open?

I'm not sure. I only heard about their criminal practice!

[iShotFirst]

What does LAS stand for?

[Anonymous User]

What does LAS stand for?

Legal Aid Society

[BlueLotus]

Rejected by LAS Juvenile Rights practice yesterday via text/email.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know anything about appellate hiring at PD offices? I know there are way fewer jobs than for trial attorney positions, but I have top grades and will be coming off a federal clerkship. Do I have any chance?

You have a number of offices in NYC that exclusively do appeals. I think a few other states might have separate appeals offices as well. I met a person from one of the NY appeals offices that was trying to get a straight ahead PD job but was only able to get the job at the appeals office post law school. Almost all of them hire 3Ls for 2 year fellowship type things.

--LinkRemoved--
http://www.appellatedefender.org/Employment.html

I don't know where you're looking, but I interned at LAS's appellate division for a little over a year. They just hired a class of 6 and their hiring is based solely on how much funding they receive for the year. I know that 6 is a big class for them. The hiring is done separate from the trial office. Unlike the trial office there is no time commitment, but they also hire for longer than 2 years. They prefer people with appellate experience and obviously, dedication to indigent defense. You're in a good position- I did not have top grades but they were impressed with my work, so I plan to go back to appeals after I am done at my trial office. Because they hire so few, their hiring process is very competitive.

It sounds like all the criminal appeals in NY are handled either pro bono through attorneys at big firms or through these fellows, which can only stay for 2-3 years. So say you go into one of these criminal appeals fellowship ordeals, wtf do you after your 2-3 year fellowship?

Also, just as a more general question to those of you who are planning to work as public defenders in one of the NYC boroughs, do most you have significant others that are going to support you (or just have money, such as through an inheritance)? It looks like most of the PD positions in NYC boroughs pay around $50-55k /year starting, which is obviously not enough money to support yourself with NY cost of living, especially when factoring in IBR payments, putting money towards retirement, supporting dependents (assuming you have a family), etc. So how do people typically make that work?

[BlueLotus]

OMG, this EJW wait is killllling me!

[Anonymous User]

Rejected by LAS Juvenile Rights practice yesterday via text/email.

They are sending rejects already?? Did you have panel interview?

[BlueLotus]

Rejected by LAS Juvenile Rights practice yesterday via text/email.

They are sending rejects already?? Did you have panel interview?

No interview. Sent cover letter and resume via ejw.

[Anonymous User]

Also, just as a more general question to those of you who are planning to work as public defenders in one of the NYC boroughs, do most you have significant others that are going to support you (or just have money, such as through an inheritance)? It looks like most of the PD positions in NYC boroughs pay around $50-55k /year starting, which is obviously not enough money to support yourself with NY cost of living, especially when factoring in IBR payments, putting money towards retirement, supporting dependents (assuming you have a family), etc. So how do people typically make that work?

You CAN live in New York on that salary. You just can't live in the best neighborhoods and/or you might have to have roommates. You can't live extravagantly, but you can make it work. I guess having children might make it pretty hard, and you might have to delay retirement savings.

[Anonymous User]

Also, just as a more general question to those of you who are planning to work as public defenders in one of the NYC boroughs, do most you have significant others that are going to support you (or just have money, such as through an inheritance)? It looks like most of the PD positions in NYC boroughs pay around $50-55k /year starting, which is obviously not enough money to support yourself with NY cost of living, especially when factoring in IBR payments, putting money towards retirement, supporting dependents (assuming you have a family), etc. So how do people typically make that work?

You CAN live in New York on that salary. You just can't live in the best neighborhoods and/or you might have to have roommates. You can't live extravagantly, but you can make it work. I guess having children might make it pretty hard, and you might have to delay retirement savings.

I'm living in a super nice area of brooklyn on 56k with one roommate in a small 2br. That would be hard if I were a single mother or something, but as a single 25 year old? Not a problem. In law school I basically lived on 24,000 a year in DC when you factor in how much of my loan went to school. Obviously I wasn't saving then, but on my 45k-ish take home this year I will start saving. I have no plans for children for at least 7 years, so I'm feeling pretty confident now! Now, I'm lucky because my LRAP is so great I will never pay a penny of loans until I start making over 75k, and after that its only a small percentage.

Don't forget: expect a couple small bumps in pay grade even your first year when you pass the bar and/ or jump into solo practice from training. Almost any org will increase by a couple thousand! and in a few years you can expect to be in the 60s, which doesn't suck.

by "solo" I just meant without supervision, not like, leaving your PD office!

[abby3211]

3L PD wannabe here. I'm going to have about 1 and 1/2 years of PD experience by the time I graduate (Student license with both a crim defense clinic at school and then the pd's office this past summer and all this year). I'm not worried about going to a big city - medium or small towns are fine. How the hell do I find a PD job that hires pre-Bar?? Our career services suck at anything other than the big name offices that everyone is applying to....

(PS I've got about 30 apps in to EJW so fingers crossed, but not holding my breath after reading about last year's bloodbath)

[Anonymous User]

In law school I basically lived on 24,000 a year in DC when you factor in how much of my loan went to school.

Did you live under a bridge in southeast DC? I clerked for a year in DC after I graduated and even with a tiny 1 bedroom apartment out in bumblefuck Alexandria (I was less than a mile from Springfield) and a $63k /year salary, I barely managed to save to save anything. DC is really expensive, for what it is.

I'm living in a super nice area of brooklyn on 56k with one roommate in a small 2br. . . . on my 45k-ish take home this year I will start saving. I have no plans for children for at least 7 years, so I'm feeling pretty confident now!

How are you seeing a $45k take-home on a $56k /year salary in NY? That doesn't sounds right, unless you're evading taxes. $56k /year should be around $40k /year take-home in NY after federal, state, local, medicare, medicaid, and social security taxes, assuming your single and one allowance (for yourself). See http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/result . Take out health insurance and other various deductions, I'd be surprised if your take-home is over $37k /year, assuming you're not evading taxes. $37k /year is rough in a place as expensive as NYC. How much are you saving from that? (I'm impressed that you're able to save anything, but I guess willingness to live with a roommate, out in Brooklyn, and in a small apartment helps.)

[Anonymous User]

In law school I basically lived on 24,000 a year in DC when you factor in how much of my loan went to school.

Did you live under a bridge in southeast DC? I clerked for a year in DC after I graduated and even with a tiny 1 bedroom apartment out in bumblefuck Alexandria (I was less than a mile from Springfield) and a $63k /year salary, I barely managed to save to save anything. DC is really expensive, for what it is.

I'm living in a super nice area of brooklyn on 56k with one roommate in a small 2br. . . . on my 45k-ish take home this year I will start saving. I have no plans for children for at least 7 years, so I'm feeling pretty confident now!

How are you seeing a $45k take-home on a $56k /year salary in NY? That doesn't sounds right, unless you're evading taxes. $56k /year should be around $40k /year take-home in NY after federal, state, local, medicare, medicaid, and social security taxes, assuming your single and one allowance (for yourself). See http://www.paycheckcity.com/calculator/salary/result . Take out health insurance and other various deductions, I'd be surprised if your take-home is over $37k /year, assuming you're not evading taxes. $37k /year is rough in a place as expensive as NYC. How much are you saving from that? (I'm impressed that you're able to save anything, but I guess willingness to live with a roommate, out in Brooklyn, and in a small apartment helps.)

Yeah definitely not evading taxes, and I did the same thing with a calculator and got 44 soooo don't know what to tell you there.

I lived in NW DC all four years, paid less than $1200/mo for rent, and got a stipend for the summers while doing PD work, so its closer to 27,000 per year. It all depends on how you live. I don't have anyone to support but a chubby cat, I had no issues whatsoever.

"Out" in Brooklyn....yeah I'm in park slope with one roommate in a 2br. I VASTLY prefer this area to Manhattan, and I'm a 20 minute subway from midtown. It's small but really nice, and my bedroom is actually very large by ny standards. I don't feel the need to live any kind of life of luxury but yeah, I put away a little something every month. Don't know what to tell you....sorry it worked for me and not for you? It's doable with my lifestyle, as I said before it would not be doable if I were supporting a child. and DC was a breeze so I really can't tell you why that was so tough for you. Most of my friend took out fewer loans than I did and lived on way less than that per year, but the lived in group houses so rent was closer to 600-800. I have always had roommates but in apartments with private bathrooms. I plan to have roommates until I move in with my boyfriend. I prefer it and it is affordable.

I make a budget for myself in a spreadsheet and keep track of the money I spend. I encourage other to do the same. My routine expenses now are the gym (70/mo) mani-pedi (30/month) and groceries (150/mo). My utilities are included in my rent. I avoid eating out and don't have pricey binge drinking nights that I had on occasion in law school. I make coffee and tea at home and don't buy it. Maybe its the little things, but it works and I'm very happy!