Military Law Forum

[Patrick Bateman]

PB,

I read through this thread a while ago and remember that you hypothesized that base selection was related to when a candidate passed a bar exam. I think that you suggested that it might be advantageous for an applicant to take the bar in a state known for quick results. I was wondering if you have had any confirmation on this or if it is still just a theory?

The reason I ask is that I am very interested in JAG and am contemplating several schools, including Wisconsin and Marquette, where graduates are admitted to the Wisconsin bar upon graduation. So it would seem that graduates of these two schools would have a tremendous advantage in receiving a base assignment near the top of their list??

Thanks,

Mark

I'm not going to unearth my original quote but here is the deal:

The timing of your law license has an impact on your base assignment and OTS class assignment. Impacts can be both positive and negative. There are fantastic and miserable assignments in each class of JAGs that are assigned out. I happened to receive an outstanding assignment out of my class. I have friends that came in at the same time with even better bases and friends assigned at locales I would only wish on my worst enemy.

There are absolutely no advantages or disadvantages in terms of bases based on your law license return date. Do not, I repeat do not, select a law school with this anywhere on your mind. Assignments are a chaotic process which are constantly altered by people moving out, people retiring, people coming in, people changing assignments and stations, etc. One JAX officer walked us through what it meant for one senior JAG to retire - dozens of other assignments were impacted.

Also keep keep in mind that one man's trash is another's treasure. I'm a city boy that hopefully will never end up at FE Warren or Mountain Home. I know JAGs at my current assignment that would give anything for the chance to hunt and fish every weekend. Some assignments are in great locales but might lack the sort of work you are interested in. Terrible locations might offer the best professional opportunities. Every base offers a unique experience that will have its own pros and cons. There is not a single across the board perfect assignment.

[amped]

So, lately I've been thinking a lot about trying for the Marine JAG program. Anyone have any reasons why I shouldn't? What are the disadvantages versus the other services? Note that I consider the longer training an advantage. For some reason I just get (good) chills all over when I think about being a Marine. I also want to do national security or some related fed govt work after school (or after the Marines as the case may be). Just curious what people's thoughts are on the pros/cons of doing JAG (and specifically the Marine JAG). Also note that I have a family, so length/frequency of deployments is a consideration.

[brownshoe]

So, lately I've been thinking a lot about trying for the Marine JAG program. Anyone have any reasons why I shouldn't? What are the disadvantages versus the other services? Note that I consider the longer training an advantage. For some reason I just get (good) chills all over when I think about being a Marine. I also want to do national security or some related fed govt work after school (or after the Marines as the case may be). Just curious what people's thoughts are on the pros/cons of doing JAG (and specifically the Marine JAG). Also note that I have a family, so length/frequency of deployments is a consideration.

There are lots of posts on here about pros/cons generally. For Marine specific - are you a PT stud? If not, you need to be getting that way. Max 3 mile run is 18:00 and max pull-ups is 20. You need to be pretty close to those numbers. You will go to their real OCS (much harder than the other services) and then 6 months of TBS (basic infantry training). That one aspect turned me off more than anything. If you have a family, it's almost like another deployment. If you have any more Marine questions, let me know. I'm Navy, by the way, but have lots of Marine JAG friends.

[Chiglaw]

Sorry if this has been asked earlier; it's a long thread.

What are your chances of landing at your #1 base choice. If I end up going the JAG route I would really love to be at Peterson working with Space Command, and Colorado Springs would be a fantastic place to live as well. Any idea how large the attorney staff is there?

[SwollenMonkey]

There are lots of posts on here about pros/cons generally. For Marine specific - are you a PT stud? If not, you need to be getting that way. Max 3 mile run is 18:00 and max pull-ups is 20. You need to be pretty close to those numbers. You will go to their real OCS (much harder than the other services) and then 6 months of TBS (basic infantry training). That one aspect turned me off more than anything. If you have a family, it's almost like another deployment. If you have any more Marine questions, let me know. I'm Navy, by the way, but have lots of Marine JAG friends.

In the Marines, 18 minutes is the fastest time possible for the 3 miles. I believe 26 or 28 minutes is the maximum allowable time. 20 pull-ups is the maximum while you have to be able to do 3 pull-ups just to pass this portion of the fitness tests. You also have to do crunches. 100 crunches is the max. i don't remember the minimum allowable number of crunches. Might be 55. Physical fitness tests are conducted semi-annually and you have to maintain your weight in accordance to your height or maintain a "neat" appearance. That is, if you look like a fat pig in your Dress "C" uniform, you will be put on weight control even if your height is proportional to your weight.

Infantry training is a breeze and fun. Swim-qual is fun. Marine life is not too bad as enlisted, and it is even better as a lawyer. You'll be feared, respected and worshiped without ever having killed insurgents or experienced combat. I'm not Marine JAG, but have friends that love it. It is not for everyone.

[lukeatomic]

I recently saw a list of Army JAG recruits and their respective schools. Any such list for Air Force?

[Corsair]

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[Rowinguy2009]

Good luck!

[SwollenMonkey]

Army interview tomorrow morning at a Starbucks (the officer is in town at another law school, I'm stealing her during her free time). Any last minute thoughts, forum-goers?

Women in uniform are sexy. Try to not check out her goods.
Good luck.

[Undead_Ed]

In the Marines, 18 minutes is the fastest time possible for the 3 miles. I believe 26 or 28 minutes is the maximum allowable time. 20 pull-ups is the maximum while you have to be able to do 3 pull-ups just to pass this portion of the fitness tests. You also have to do crunches. 100 crunches is the max. i don't remember the minimum allowable number of crunches. Might be 55. Physical fitness tests are conducted semi-annually and you have to maintain your weight in accordance to your height or maintain a "neat" appearance. That is, if you look like a fat pig in your Dress "C" uniform, you will be put on weight control even if your height is proportional to your weight.

Infantry training is a breeze and fun. Swim-qual is fun. Marine life is not too bad as enlisted, and it is even better as a lawyer. You'll be feared, respected and worshiped without ever having killed insurgents or experienced combat. I'm not Marine JAG, but have friends that love it. It is not for everyone.

So are you a Marine, then? I was wondering about what I would actually have to get on the 3-mile run to be considered for JAG. Of course, the recruiter said 20 minutes , but I couldn't run that when I was 18. I'm pushing 30 now. Anybody have any insight into what kind of a run would be considered average or doable for the Marines? I've been getting right around 24:00 lately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqg3ldlbb00

[SwollenMonkey]

So are you a Marine, then? I was wondering about what I would actually have to get on the 3-mile run to be considered for JAG. Of course, the recruiter said 20 minutes , but I couldn't run that when I was 18. I'm pushing 30 now. Anybody have any insight into what kind of a run would be considered average or doable for the Marines? I've been getting right around 24:00 lately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqg3ldlbb00

I was in the Marines, but was not an officer. I was enlisted. JAG standards might be different upon entering, but as with all things, they get easier as you progress. 30 is still young. Running 3 miles in 18 minutes is not accomplished by all. I am a runner, so I ran 3 in 18 easily. 20 minutes is about average, but I'd say 22 minutes to be safe. If you want to do the Marines, but are concerned about the physical aspects, you should focus your efforts on passing the physical fitness tests instead of trying to be a PT stud. Talk to your JAG recruiter about any concerns you may have and ask for clarification. Officer/JAG lifestyle is a lot different than enlisted, so the standards might not be as rigid.

As long as you can pass the physical fitness test, you'll be fine. Not all Marines, including officers, are running machines.

[brownshoe]

If you want to do the Marines, but are concerned about the physical aspects, you should focus your efforts on passing the physical fitness tests instead of trying to be a PT stud. Talk to your JAG recruiter about any concerns you may have and ask for clarification. Officer/JAG lifestyle is a lot different than enlisted, so the standards might not be as rigid.

As long as you can pass the physical fitness test, you'll be fine. Not all Marines, including officers, are running machines.

I'm sorry, but this is wrong on several points. First, the PT standards are actually much more rigid for officers. Second, focusing your efforts on just passing will result in not getting selected. No, not everyone is a running machine. But if you are weak on running (over 22:00), you better be doing 20 pull-ups and 100 sit-ups - not many law students are doing that. Those numbers will get you a 276/300 at age 25. 275 is the number I hear that you need to be competetive.

[amped]

Oh one more thing...if I'm a 2L right now, can I still apply for the Marine PLC program? or is it too late?

[SwollenMonkey]

If you want to do the Marines, but are concerned about the physical aspects, you should focus your efforts on passing the physical fitness tests instead of trying to be a PT stud. Talk to your JAG recruiter about any concerns you may have and ask for clarification. Officer/JAG lifestyle is a lot different than enlisted, so the standards might not be as rigid.

As long as you can pass the physical fitness test, you'll be fine. Not all Marines, including officers, are running machines.

I'm sorry, but this is wrong on several points. First, the PT standards are actually much more rigid for officers. Second, focusing your efforts on just passing will result in not getting selected. No, not everyone is a running machine. But if you are weak on running (over 22:00), you better be doing 20 pull-ups and 100 sit-ups - not many law students are doing that. Those numbers will get you a 276/300 at age 25. 275 is the number I hear that you need to be competetive.

Well put! Do make up for any aspects of PT that you may not be strong as you'd like to be. The standards are more rigid for officers, but then again, not every officer is a PT stud.
I was never able to do 20 pull-ups. My best is 17 pull-ups, but running 3 miles is easy. Since it is easy for me to run, but hard to do pull-ups, I'm aiming to do at least 15 pull-ups, 100 crunches, and run 3 miles in 18.

I should have elaborated on my point. Thanks for replying brownshoe. I'm a 0L now, but am maintaining physical shape because military law is one of my options.

[Corsair]

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[edmoser]

Anybody hear back from the Feb boards?

[movieguru873]

does anybody know the process for being selected into army or marine jag? I know that the airforce does OYCP which is a little bit easier than direct appointment to be accepted into. Is there any such program for the marines and army?

[Patrick Bateman]

I recently saw a list of Army JAG recruits and their respective schools. Any such list for Air Force?

The list exists but it is not published.

PS: "Recruits" has a specific meaning in the military. Law students/lawyers selected for an Army Direct Commission are not recruits.

[lindseyl]

I recently saw a list of Army JAG recruits and their respective schools. Any such list for Air Force?

The list exists but it is not published.

PS: "Recruits" has a specific meaning in the military. Law students/lawyers selected for an Army Direct Commission are not recruits.

A list of schools for current JAGs is available, though. --LinkRemoved--

[Patrick Bateman]

I recently saw a list of Army JAG recruits and their respective schools. Any such list for Air Force?

The list exists but it is not published.

PS: "Recruits" has a specific meaning in the military. Law students/lawyers selected for an Army Direct Commission are not recruits.

A list of schools for current JAGs is available, though. --LinkRemoved--

178 law schools represented in my US Air Force! Outstanding!

[Patrick Bateman]

Sorry if this has been asked earlier; it's a long thread.

What are your chances of landing at your #1 base choice. If I end up going the JAG route I would really love to be at Peterson working with Space Command, and Colorado Springs would be a fantastic place to live as well. Any idea how large the attorney staff is there?

Your chances are not all that great. Assignments can be a crap shoot. You also have to keep in mind you move every two years. Even if you land Peterson, it is only for a while. Your second assignment is almost always a different Major Command, so you would not see Space Command again for a few tours. Peterson only has 6-7 junior JAGs (this excludes civilians and the SJA/Deputy).

[goreman]

Earlier in the thread, there was somebody asking for people who are Army JAGs and more info on the Army JAG Corps. While I am not a JAG officer yet (just selected for the FLEP), I'm currently deployed and I work very closely with the JAG officers in our unit. I can pass off any questions to them and get to you with a response if you want.

[Undead_Ed]

Anybody hear back from the Feb boards?

Not a peep. I called the base on Monday and was told I should hear something soon. I didn't realize this, but it is apparently going to be the base SJA who calls.

[movieguru873]

Earlier in the thread, there was somebody asking for people who are Army JAGs and more info on the Army JAG Corps. While I am not a JAG officer yet (just selected for the FLEP), I'm currently deployed and I work very closely with the JAG officers in our unit. I can pass off any questions to them and get to you with a response if you want.

I actually do have a question. Is there more than one way to get a comission into the army jag besides direct appointment during 3L? I didn't know if it was possible to enlist while in law school. Thanks for the help!

[goreman]

Also, for those interested in Army JAG, this link goes to a pretty interesting website called "Army Strong Stories" with blogs from people's experiences in the Army. While each individual has their own blog, all of the JAG-related ones are grouped together on this link. It might help answer some questions or you can also post questions to the people writing there.

http://www.armystrongstories.com/catego ... e-general/

(movieguru -- I'm not entirely sure, but I'll look into it and get back to you)