Military Law Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone with experience in the Army's OGC care to talk to us about the day to day responsibilities of a lawyer? Like, if I am leaning more towards general litigation work, would I be much better served working as a JAG?

[Patrick Bateman]

As a side note, after watching the inauguration and Gorsuch's nomination last night, I noticed many of the military aides are JAGs. The position itself isn't specific to a certain job so thought that was interesting.

For the Air Force, they are known as Legislative Liaisons. The JAG Corps has a dedicated slot within the program - most folks picked up for it are newish to mid level Majors (around the same career mark folks apply for the LLM program or for an in-residence slot at IDE like Air Command & Staff College).

General article I was able to find on it:

http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/News/Artic ... t-politics

[Anonymous User]

I think that's different from the White House Social Aide program. Below is the article I saw. Couldn't tell if the AF and Marine officers were JAG, but I noticed the JAG insignia on most of the Army and Navy uniforms. Makes sense given the occasion last night.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... a7f8f9beaa


Navy had four JAGs serving there in 2014.
http://jag.navylive.dodlive.mil/2014/05 ... ial-aides/

[Anonymous User]

Anybody hear back about interviews regarding Army OGC honors program?

Yes. Invitation to interview received this morning.

I can confirm this. Do we know how many people are interviewed for each position available?

Looks like 6 people are being flown to the Pentagon to interview in the next few weeks (I'm basing this on the number of emails included in the flight scheduling email), but there might be more later that I don't know about.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody hear back about interviews regarding Army OGC honors program?

Yes. Invitation to interview received this morning.

I can confirm this. Do we know how many people are interviewed for each position available?

Looks like 6 people are being flown to the Pentagon to interview in the next few weeks (I'm basing this on the number of emails included in the flight scheduling email), but there might be more later that I don't know about.

I also see 6 folks in my email. Last initials for each person: B G J M P W

[Anonymous User]

Anybody hear back about interviews regarding Army OGC honors program?

Yes. Invitation to interview received this morning.

I can confirm this. Do we know how many people are interviewed for each position available?

Looks like 6 people are being flown to the Pentagon to interview in the next few weeks (I'm basing this on the number of emails included in the flight scheduling email), but there might be more later that I don't know about.

I also see 6 folks in my email. Last initials for each person: B G J M P W

This is what I see. I doubt there will be more later, but there could be. I've been trying to get more info on the actual work you'd do as a Honors lawyer. Anyone have thoughts on this? If you're interest in more litigation based work, is being a regular JAG a better idea?

[Anonymous User]

Anybody hear back about interviews regarding Army OGC honors program?

Yes. Invitation to interview received this morning.

I can confirm this. Do we know how many people are interviewed for each position available?

Looks like 6 people are being flown to the Pentagon to interview in the next few weeks (I'm basing this on the number of emails included in the flight scheduling email), but there might be more later that I don't know about.

I also see 6 folks in my email. Last initials for each person: B G J M P W

This is what I see. I doubt there will be more later, but there could be. I've been trying to get more info on the actual work you'd do as a Honors lawyer. Anyone have thoughts on this? If you're interest in more litigation based work, is being a regular JAG a better idea?

Great question. From their website I didn't get the impression they did much in terms of advocacy but more in terms of preparing and presenting formal legal opinions. If you want to talk off-line, I'm "J," so feel free to email me.

[Anonymous User]

Anybody hear back about interviews regarding Army OGC honors program?

Yes. Invitation to interview received this morning.

I can confirm this. Do we know how many people are interviewed for each position available?

Looks like 6 people are being flown to the Pentagon to interview in the next few weeks (I'm basing this on the number of emails included in the flight scheduling email), but there might be more later that I don't know about.

I also see 6 folks in my email. Last initials for each person: B G J M P W

This is what I see. I doubt there will be more later, but there could be. I've been trying to get more info on the actual work you'd do as a Honors lawyer. Anyone have thoughts on this? If you're interest in more litigation based work, is being a regular JAG a better idea?

Great question. From their website I didn't get the impression they did much in terms of advocacy but more in terms of preparing and presenting formal legal opinions. If you want to talk off-line, I'm "J," so feel free to email me.

"G" here. I emailed them to ask about the type of work before I applied, and it's definitely more transactional work than litigation. There seems to be a fair amount of advising on Army and DOD policies, working on agreements with other entities, etc. But the person I talked to said they do advise on litigation sometimes. My thoughts on it are that there's no real guarantee of litigation in regular JAG either, so the opportunity to do higher level work at the Pentagon is well worth it, even if you want to end up trying cases.

[Anonymous User]

Yes. Invitation to interview received this morning.

I can confirm this. Do we know how many people are interviewed for each position available?

Looks like 6 people are being flown to the Pentagon to interview in the next few weeks (I'm basing this on the number of emails included in the flight scheduling email), but there might be more later that I don't know about.

I also see 6 folks in my email. Last initials for each person: B G J M P W

This is what I see. I doubt there will be more later, but there could be. I've been trying to get more info on the actual work you'd do as a Honors lawyer. Anyone have thoughts on this? If you're interest in more litigation based work, is being a regular JAG a better idea?

Great question. From their website I didn't get the impression they did much in terms of advocacy but more in terms of preparing and presenting formal legal opinions. If you want to talk off-line, I'm "J," so feel free to email me.

"G" here. I emailed them to ask about the type of work before I applied, and it's definitely more transactional work than litigation. There seems to be a fair amount of advising on Army and DOD policies, working on agreements with other entities, etc. But the person I talked to said they do advise on litigation sometimes. My thoughts on it are that there's no real guarantee of litigation in regular JAG either, so the opportunity to do higher level work at the Pentagon is well worth it, even if you want to end up trying cases.

That's cool. I wonder how this type of work would be viewed if you're trying to get a government job after the 4 years, for example at the DOJ. I'd assume that AUSA positions (which would be incredibly difficult anyways) would be out of consideration without any trial experience

[Anonymous User]

Just got accepted into the Navy 2L JAG Corps Internship Program!! Does anybody know if 2L JAG interns in the Navy will be paid this summer? Also, does anybody know the percentage of Navy 2L Interns who end up being accepted to active duty during 3L? I know for Army, it's around 70-80% -- but perhaps Navy is more competitive?

Any input will be highly appreciated!

[Anonymous User]

Just got accepted into the Navy 2L JAG Corps Internship Program!! Does anybody know if 2L JAG interns in the Navy will be paid this summer? Also, does anybody know the percentage of Navy 2L Interns who end up being accepted to active duty during 3L? I know for Army, it's around 70-80% -- but perhaps Navy is more competitive?

Congrats! How'd you find out?

[Anonymous User]

(Replying to above)
I received an email from the Lt. in charge of selecting interns. Does anybody know the timeline for medical and security clearances for interns? Will it be soon after acceptance or will it be closer towards the start of summer?

[TheSpanishMain]

You're not going to get medically cleared as an intern. They're not going to send you to medical and security unless you're selected by the Student Program and they're actually going to commission you.

[Patrick Bateman]

Responding to the dozen embedded quotes above regarding Army Honors GC:

Any General Counsel's Office job for the Feds is going to be generally transactional - there can be some civil litigation that comes up in the labor law and information litigation arenas however (and maybe others, I only have limited exposure in this area). Going from a position like that to a criminal AUSA or criminal Main Justice position would be extremely difficult. As I've noted before, the selling point JAGs bring to the table is trial experience and that is just not the type of experience you are going to get as an assistant GC - your average U.S. Attorney's Office is going to be composed of former state/local prosecutors, laterals from litigating components of Main Justice, some BigLaw laterals, and JAGs.

There are civil AUSA positions, however, that might be in reach, depending on exactly what you did for the GC. There are also areas of Main Justice that might appreciate those skills - I have had a number of JAG friends that ended up with civil specialties while on active duty and were able to sell those to the different sections within DOJ Civil Division (or ENRD, etc). While I love criminal work and that tends to be the most common path for JAGs -> DOJ/USAO, it is not the only game in town.

The point about no guarantees of criminal litigation experience in JAG is a fair point and one that should be considered. There is indeed someelement of luck in landing at busy bases where you can try courts, getting selected as an ADC, etc. That said, there is still plenty a new JAG can do to influence his/her chances for opportunities.

[wg6524]

Just got accepted into the Navy 2L JAG Corps Internship Program!! Does anybody know if 2L JAG interns in the Navy will be paid this summer? Also, does anybody know the percentage of Navy 2L Interns who end up being accepted to active duty during 3L? I know for Army, it's around 70-80% -- but perhaps Navy is more competitive?

Any input will be highly appreciated!

Probably not. The Navy usually doesn't pay interns.

The thing that is different between the two is that the Navy looks at your more and often. The Army is more of a one shot deal.

[Anonymous User]

Just received notice that I got a spot for the Army Jag Reserve (previously waitlisted)

[Anonymous User]

Responding to the dozen embedded quotes above regarding Army Honors GC:

Any General Counsel's Office job for the Feds is going to be generally transactional - there can be some civil litigation that comes up in the labor law and information litigation arenas however (and maybe others, I only have limited exposure in this area). Going from a position like that to a criminal AUSA or criminal Main Justice position would be extremely difficult. As I've noted before, the selling point JAGs bring to the table is trial experience and that is just not the type of experience you are going to get as an assistant GC - your average U.S. Attorney's Office is going to be composed of former state/local prosecutors, laterals from litigating components of Main Justice, some BigLaw laterals, and JAGs.

There are civil AUSA positions, however, that might be in reach, depending on exactly what you did for the GC. There are also areas of Main Justice that might appreciate those skills - I have had a number of JAG friends that ended up with civil specialties while on active duty and were able to sell those to the different sections within DOJ Civil Division (or ENRD, etc). While I love criminal work and that tends to be the most common path for JAGs -> DOJ/USAO, it is not the only game in town.

The point about no guarantees of criminal litigation experience in JAG is a fair point and one that should be considered. There is indeed someelement of luck in landing at busy bases where you can try courts, getting selected as an ADC, etc. That said, there is still plenty a new JAG can do to influence his/her chances for opportunities.

Is this experience (luck in landing jobs w/ crim lit) unique to AF JAG? Or do you think it applies to the other services?

May affect where I or others apply.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone wanna share experiences with medical waiver process?

[Patrick Bateman]

Responding to the dozen embedded quotes above regarding Army Honors GC:

Any General Counsel's Office job for the Feds is going to be generally transactional - there can be some civil litigation that comes up in the labor law and information litigation arenas however (and maybe others, I only have limited exposure in this area). Going from a position like that to a criminal AUSA or criminal Main Justice position would be extremely difficult. As I've noted before, the selling point JAGs bring to the table is trial experience and that is just not the type of experience you are going to get as an assistant GC - your average U.S. Attorney's Office is going to be composed of former state/local prosecutors, laterals from litigating components of Main Justice, some BigLaw laterals, and JAGs.

There are civil AUSA positions, however, that might be in reach, depending on exactly what you did for the GC. There are also areas of Main Justice that might appreciate those skills - I have had a number of JAG friends that ended up with civil specialties while on active duty and were able to sell those to the different sections within DOJ Civil Division (or ENRD, etc). While I love criminal work and that tends to be the most common path for JAGs -> DOJ/USAO, it is not the only game in town.

The point about no guarantees of criminal litigation experience in JAG is a fair point and one that should be considered. There is indeed someelement of luck in landing at busy bases where you can try courts, getting selected as an ADC, etc. That said, there is still plenty a new JAG can do to influence his/her chances for opportunities.

Is this experience (luck in landing jobs w/ crim lit) unique to AF JAG? Or do you think it applies to the other services?

May affect where I or others apply.

Short answer is no - trial experience is trial experience, regardless of what color uniform you are wearing.

The longer answer/the better question is what service will give you the opportunity to try the most cases out of the gate. I can't speak with any true expertise to how the Army/Navy/Marines staff their first and second assignment JAGs and how that impacts courtroom time. I'll let the other folks from those services weigh in.

The Air Force model is certainly conducive for getting trial experience right away. You will get to serve as a trial counsel at your first assignment, regardless if you are serving in the military justice or civil division of your base legal office. The only real limfac is if you end up at a slow base that just does not have a lot of courts going on - that, however, can be helped by volunteering to try cases at other, busier, bases (we had JAGs from other bases coming to my second assignment all the time to second chair our cases for experience) and getting to all the trial ad courses you can at AFJAGS.

You can always request a busy base as your second assignment - generally that will help you land an ADC gig by your 3rd/4th year, and that is where the real volume kicks in. For perspective, the best JAG I have ever tried cases with started at a slower Space Command base as his first assignment.

After ADC, you can go STC/SDC or diversify your skill set at our appellate shops. With this model, you have a really strong resume by year 6-7 and will have put on O-4. Prime time to punch out for a Fed gig and the Reserves.

[AntonJart]

Hello everyone! I'm in the process of assembling Accession packet #1 for the Army JAG RC. I have to submit a proof of citizenship:

"Birth Certificate or Citizenship Papers: Original copies or certified copies of either your birth certificate or citizenship papers will be required as part of your hard copy file."

Does any one know whether I can use a notarized copy of my Naturalization Certificate? Or I will have to get it certified by USCIS?

[JackSparrow123]

Hello everyone! I'm in the process of assembling Accession packet #1 for the Army JAG RC. I have to submit a proof of citizenship:

"Birth Certificate or Citizenship Papers: Original copies or certified copies of either your birth certificate or citizenship papers will be required as part of your hard copy file."

Does any one know whether I can use a notarized copy of my Naturalization Certificate? Or I will have to get it certified by USCIS?

Will you get your original certificate back? If so, I would just send the original copy.

[AntonJart]

Hello everyone! I'm in the process of assembling Accession packet #1 for the Army JAG RC. I have to submit a proof of citizenship:

"Birth Certificate or Citizenship Papers: Original copies or certified copies of either your birth certificate or citizenship papers will be required as part of your hard copy file."

Does any one know whether I can use a notarized copy of my Naturalization Certificate? Or I will have to get it certified by USCIS?

Will you get your original certificate back? If so, I would just send the original copy.

Hey! Nope, won't get anything from the packet returned.

[usn26]

They want you to submit original copies, but won't return them? That can't be right.

[AntonJart]

They want you to submit original copies, but won't return them? That can't be right.

yep, there is a note below that message "This document will not be returned to you, so do not send your only copy."

I was wondering what they mean by "Certified Copy." Can a Notary Public notarize the copy?

[Patrick Bateman]

They want you to submit original copies, but won't return them? That can't be right.

yep, there is a note below that message "This document will not be returned to you, so do not send your only copy."

I was wondering what they mean by "Certified Copy." Can a Notary Public notarize the copy?

A random notary cannot certify the document. You need a records custodian for that particular record from the originating office, like someone that could do a FRE 902(11) certification.