AUSA/USAO hiring Forum

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the response re timeline! So do they set you up for your security clearance/background check between offering you the job and your start date? So in your situation between July and November? I looked up the SF-86 form online and saw it but I haven't filled it out or anything. This is something that you fill out after you've been offered the job, right?

Also, as to the background check, did you call the people you listed to give them a heads up that they're going to be contacted by someone? I'm guessing the answer is yes (just so they're not caught off guard) but I wasn't sure. I'm pretty sure I filled out the SF-86 back when I was applying for Marine Corps OCS but I never remember any of the people I listed telling me that agents had called them about me. I also don't remember interviewing with agents or anything so maybe that was a different clearance?

Yes that’s right. Post accepting offer we began the sf-86 process. Lengthy form. Go pee in a cup. I did tell my references they would prob get a call. Not everyone did end up getting a call but a large number of the references did get either a call or in person interview. I also sat for an interview. I was moving from another state so my process may have been longer than others.

For whatever it’s worth, I began applying in earnest in Jan 2018. Started the job in November 2018. I applied at about 25 offices. Got interviews at two. Offer at one.

[Anonymous User]

Re: interviews - my office was doing them right when everything started. We did a couple in person but no handshakes, then everything really shut down and we switched over to video. However, I'm not sure how they handled the final interview with the USA, whether that was video or socially-distanced local. I think it may have been a mix of both depending on candidate preference and location.

Re: background check - yes, you get set up for it between offer and start date. They're not going to start the process before someone has accepted an offer - it's a pain in the ass and they have to set up a personalized SF-86 online for you, so they only do it once someone has accepted. But they have to do it before you can start - you can't start the job without having at least a prima facie successful check (i.e. they determine that on its face your SF-86 has no issues, you start work, and they continue the deep dive into your background once you've started).

I'm pretty sure I told some people I'd listed them but probably not everyone. I notified people I listed as personal references (friends who knew me at various places), but didn't notify former employers or the like. They will interview you and people who knew you.

Thanks for the answer! Sorry, I should have clarified that I was asking specifically about the references part but that answers it!

[Anonymous User]

Anybody have any experience with the "term" jobs that are offered. They always state that there for a term but the term could be extended. Barring something stupid by the person who gets the job, is it somewhat common for the term to be extended, or very rare? Or, as I'm assuming, is it a "it depends" situation? Lol, thanks for any guidance!

[andythefir]

Anybody have any experience with the "term" jobs that are offered. They always state that there for a term but the term could be extended. Barring something stupid by the person who gets the job, is it somewhat common for the term to be extended, or very rare? Or, as I'm assuming, is it a "it depends" situation? Lol, thanks for any guidance!

There are 2 kinds of jobs that could qualify as terms. 1 is all USAO jobs have a 2 year probation term, where you can be fired without a lengthy process. The other are the 14 month ones, which some districts use as an extended try out for all their hires, and others truly have one off funding. I’d say the 14 month routine would be good for an office you actually want to join. But 14 months in Laredo or Idaho won’t make SDNY come knocking at month 15.

[Anonymous User]

So actually the probationary term for AUSAs is 14 months, not 2 years. As for term jobs, they’re not necessarily limited to 14 months, and can also be replacements for people who are on details. I know some offices like to hire their term hires into permanent positions if they can, but it’s not guaranteed and it doesn’t always work out. So there’s always a little bit of a risk.

You’re probably not going to go from Idaho or Laredo to SDNY, no, but you can often use that experience to go elsewhere in the country (SDNY is pretty atypical in terms of hiring, in the grand scheme of offices across the country).

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I did see that most of the postings mention the probationary period but also saw some of the true "term" that are not expected to exceed 14 months. I'm an ADA so moreso I'm just wondering if I were to be lucky enough to be selected for even one of these term positions, is this something I tell my current boss about and hope that he'll let me come back at the end of the term? Or is it more likely that as long as you're doing OK, you're going to keep working in that region.

Really, before committing to leaving my already pretty good job, I'd hate to take a term position and burn a bridge with my boss, move to a different region of the country where I'm not barred, and find myself already having to make alternative plans right when I start the term position.

I'm guessing that if it truly is a term position, that I would probably need to start the application process again for new AUSA positions since it's only 14 months, right? At least as of now, the prestigious offices have never really been a goal of mine. I'm mainly hoping to get in an office, see how I like it as well as the region. From there, maybe goals change but as of now, the idea of getting into a more prestigious office isn't quite on my goals list yet.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

It’s really going to depend on circumstances, funding, and the needs of the office at that time. My office is very open with term applicants that if they turn out to be a good fit, our goal is to hire them permanently, but that we can’t guarantee it. I’m not sure all offices treat term positions this way. I think it would be tough to guarantee either that you’d come back at the end of that specific term, or that you’d be able to keep working. You’d kind of have to be willing to take a bit of a risk.

I believe that if you’re in a term position you can keep renewing it without reapplying, but that if you were to move to a permanent position you’d have to go through the application process again.

[Anonymous User]

It’s really going to depend on circumstances, funding, and the needs of the office at that time. My office is very open with term applicants that if they turn out to be a good fit, our goal is to hire them permanently, but that we can’t guarantee it. I’m not sure all offices treat term positions this way. I think it would be tough to guarantee either that you’d come back at the end of that specific term, or that you’d be able to keep working. You’d kind of have to be willing to take a bit of a risk.

I believe that if you’re in a term position you can keep renewing it without reapplying, but that if you were to move to a permanent position you’d have to go through the application process again.

Good to know, thanks! It would definitely be cool to take a position, even if I knew it was a short term. I think I'll just try my best to not burn a bridge at my local office if I am offered one of those term positions where there's a possibility I'm only there for a brief time.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have to take a poly as a part of their background? I never really thought about it as it doesn't look like a TS clearance requires one but I just saw a posting for Western District of PA that says Secret/Top Secret/SCI may be required. Just curious if most offices do a poly? Or does someone have to poly to do certain cases? Or maybe a supervisory role would require it?

[Anonymous User]

I have never had a poly or heard of anyone doing a poly. I also don’t think supervisors have any different requirements from line AUSAS. That said, it is possible specific cases might require something additional - I know when I clerked, my judge got a case that required him and the rest of chambers to get a clearance (I didn’t have to because it was going to continue past my end date so they just had the career clerk handle it). It was a case where the parties had to use a
scif to access some of the discovery, so fairly intense security. Pretty sure they (chambers et al) didn’t do a poly, but can’t say it never happens for the right cases. In that case, you’d need a supervisor with the same clearance, but I don’t think that all supervisors would automatically get that level of clearance.

Tl;dr - you’re not going to do a poly to get hired and I’ve never heard of anyone doing one, but I can’t rule it out for certain cases/caseloads.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if the right thread to ask this question. How often do civil division AUSAs go to court and have trials? Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

I'd say one or maybe two trials a year is a decent approximation. Easily could have fewer or more, like 3-4 in a year, depending on your cases. I'm mostly in court arguing motions, frequency again being totally dependent on your cases - sometimes I'll have 2-3 arguments in a week, other times I'll go a month or two without any. Then you'll obviously have to appear for status, scheduling conferences, other routine type stuff. So you're in court, but definitely not as much as the criminal peeps.

[Anonymous User]

I'd say one or maybe two trials a year is a decent approximation. Easily could have fewer or more, like 3-4 in a year, depending on your cases. I'm mostly in court arguing motions, frequency again being totally dependent on your cases - sometimes I'll have 2-3 arguments in a week, other times I'll go a month or two without any. Then you'll obviously have to appear for status, scheduling conferences, other routine type stuff. So you're in court, but definitely not as much as the criminal peeps.

Thank you for your response. I am applying to a few AUSA positions and I am only interested in civil law, so it limits my options for how many AUSA applications I am interested in applying to.

Related question: Does it matter if my only trial experience is with being first chair in two bench trials (also civil)? I am just worried only having tried bench trials may ding me. I have more than 4 and less than 5 years of experience practicing civil litigation.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, I’m not sure I’ve even seen a jury civil trial in either of the offices I’ve worked in. Very few civil trials at all, and they were all bench trials. That said, I’m not in civil and also have worked in offices with very small civil divisions (and presumably caseloads). So based on my experience, I don’t think only doing bench trials will ding you automatically (though of course if there’s someone applying who has done lots of jury trials they may edge you out). As a data point, my office recently hired an affirmative civil enforcement AUSA who’s been practicing for 15 years, and I think they told me they have 4-5 trials total (because the value in their experience is all the stuff before trial).

[Anonymous User]

I've had one trial this year. An AUSA i work with had 3 set back-to-back-to-back before the court restrictions put in place on account of the virus, having already tried one case earlier this year. It just really depends. If you like trial work, get on another AUSA's case going to trial, since all trials are staffed (generally speaking) with 2 AUSAs. The trials you see in the civil division are usually your run of the mill FTCA or Bivens (read: tort) cases or Title VII cases, which are the cases i generally try to avoid.

Trial experience - i think any trial experience (bench or jury) is obviously going to be helpful but it's not required. I literally had zero trial experience when i applied (4-5 years out of law school at the time, like you). As the above poster notes, most of our work is on paper, so while i can't speak for all offices, i think my office places greater emphasis on your legal writing and reasoning abilities than trial experience, but likes to hear why you'll be good at doing both.

[Anonymous User]

I have a similar question about the AUSA hiring process. I had my third and final interview in mid-May with the U.S. Attorney about one month after my second interview. About 3 weeks later, the office asked for references; they called 2 of my 3 references the day after I responded. It has been 8 business days since they spoke to my references, but have yet to receive an offer or a rejection. Is COVID and/or the riots slowing down the process? If I've been rejected, wouldn't I have received a rejection letter by now? Just wondering if this timeline is normal.

[Anonymous User]

There's no real way of knowing. I don't think you should count yourself out, because yes, most offices are still very much in flux right now and coping with COVID (and possibly protests/riots if they were a big deal in the city). Also I'm pretty sure the office has to get approval from main justice before they can make an offer. I got my offer in around 5 business days, BUT there were circumstances in play where the office was trying to make the hire as quickly as possible, and they had contacted my references before the final USA interview, not after. I don't think 8 business days is long enough under these circumstances to say anything one way or another.

To be blunt, it is entirely possible they've made an offer to someone else and are waiting for that person to accept before they send out rejections; you might be a second choice. But there's nothing you can do about any of that now. I know it's almost impossible not to read the tea leaves, but you don't have enough information about what's going on behind the scenes to be able to do so accurately.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any information/experience with SDCA? Hiring process (how many interviews, etc.), what the leadership there is like, etc.

[Anonymous User]

I had an interview with the front office and US Attorney maybe 8 or 9 business days ago, but haven't heard a peep since. Still too early to worry, right?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. Anyone have any intel re CD Cal? Such as time from intial interview to FO interview to references to final offer? Cheers.

[Anonymous User]

I had an interview with the front office and US Attorney maybe 8 or 9 business days ago, but haven't heard a peep since. Still too early to worry, right?

I think so. They're probably interviewing several people this round and may not have finished all of the interviews yet, let alone made a decision on offers. This process moves slow, I wouldn't be worried (OK, I would be worried, but it's not actually a concern).

[Anonymous User]

I had an interview with the front office and US Attorney maybe 8 or 9 business days ago, but haven't heard a peep since. Still too early to worry, right?

I think so. They're probably interviewing several people this round and may not have finished all of the interviews yet, let alone made a decision on offers. This process moves slow, I wouldn't be worried (OK, I would be worried, but it's not actually a concern).

Piggy backing off of this. I had an interview approx 2 weeks ago. My questions are: 1) is it kosher to send a follow up email after two weeks if you haven't heard anything? 2) if so, do I follow up with the HR/assistant or the folks from the office I directly interviewed with? (It was 4 individuals).

[Anonymous User]

I would not send a follow-up unless you have another offer with a deadline, or something substantive to update them with. They haven't forgotten they interviewed you, they may well have had more interviews to conduct after yours, and usually offices have to get approval from main DOJ for a hire, which can take a little while. Two weeks is not a long time.

Tbh honest I'm anti-following up just generally, and my approach is you don't have the job until you have the job, so assume you didn't get it and go on with life/applications as normal until/unless you hear from them. But after a month-6 weeks maybe you could reach out, really to either HR or someone who interviewed you. If you want an excuse to make a further connection and go with the latter, I'd go with whoever seemed to be running the show/communicated with you most (having been an interviewer but not a head honcho, there are times when I haven't know what's happening either). If you want to avoid worrying about saying anything awkward to someone who's making hiring decisions, maybe go with HR. (Obviously still be nice and polite and so on to HR, not doing so could ding you, but it's a lower pressure call b/c HR doesn't decide who to hire.)

[Anonymous User]

I would not send a follow-up unless you have another offer with a deadline, or something substantive to update them with. They haven't forgotten they interviewed you, they may well have had more interviews to conduct after yours, and usually offices have to get approval from main DOJ for a hire, which can take a little while. Two weeks is not a long time.

Tbh honest I'm anti-following up just generally, and my approach is you don't have the job until you have the job, so assume you didn't get it and go on with life/applications as normal until/unless you hear from them. But after a month-6 weeks maybe you could reach out, really to either HR or someone who interviewed you. If you want an excuse to make a further connection and go with the latter, I'd go with whoever seemed to be running the show/communicated with you most (having been an interviewer but not a head honcho, there are times when I haven't know what's happening either). If you want to avoid worrying about saying anything awkward to someone who's making hiring decisions, maybe go with HR. (Obviously still be nice and polite and so on to HR, not doing so could ding you, but it's a lower pressure call b/c HR doesn't decide who to hire.)

Thanks! Yeah, I have been very much on the fence about it. It was only my first interview a few weeks ago, but they had mentioned there could be one more round if I moved forward in the process. Sounds like best bet is to just wait it out.

[Anonymous User]

Any word out of EDNY/SDNY? Or are those offices completely shut down to hiring?