Military Law Forum

[bouakedojo]

I can confirm I know of an applicant that received a call for their OYCP app at around 5:15 pm CST. Pm me for more details if desired.

Congrats to all those selected!

[DannyBoy31]

Anybody on the east coast get a call today at that those times?

[mlittle5]

I'm in Atlanta but did not receive a call. I'm hoping it'll come Monday, though I know that's likely just wishful thinking.

[DannyBoy31]

I'm in Atlanta but did not receive a call. I'm hoping it'll come Monday, though I know that's likely just wishful thinking.

I'm in the same boat. If they got calls that late though then there is still some hope. 6:00-6:30 EST on a Friday might have been too late for some SJA's to still be in the office.

[mlittle5]

I'm in Atlanta but did not receive a call. I'm hoping it'll come Monday, though I know that's likely just wishful thinking.

I'm in the same boat. If they got calls that late though then there is still some hope. 6:00-6:30 EST on a Friday might have been too late for some SJA's to still be in the office.

That's what I'm thinking. I know the SJA I interviewed with is typically gone by 1600. If an email went out with a list of "selects" past that time, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get it. Fingers crossed...

[jeanster]

I'm in Atlanta but did not receive a call. I'm hoping it'll come Monday, though I know that's likely just wishful thinking.

I'm in the same boat. If they got calls that late though then there is still some hope. 6:00-6:30 EST on a Friday might have been too late for some SJA's to still be in the office.

That's what I'm thinking. I know the SJA I interviewed with is typically gone by 1600. If an email went out with a list of "selects" past that time, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't get it. Fingers crossed...

Good luck to all. I'm currently waiting as well- I guess we'll find out this week if we haven't already.

Congrats to those who will be serving in two years time!

[Ranger85]

Have any of you that were selected for the Army Summer Internship heard anything about assignments yet? Other than just submitting the wishlist.

[erik_1717]

Have any of you that were selected for the Army Summer Internship heard anything about assignments yet? Other than just submitting the wishlist.

I have not. I was only picked as an alternate and figured that I wasn't selected because I didn't hear anything last week either. Were you selected or an alternate?

[target]

So if I don't get a phone call from my SJA today, should I assume my OYLP application was denied?

[mlittle5]

So if I don't get a phone call from my SJA today, should I assume my OYLP application was denied?

IMO, I would assume so. I saw confirmation of OYCP calls coming out Friday on another board:

http://airforceots.com/portal/modules.p ... ic&t=27255

[target]

So if I don't get a phone call from my SJA today, should I assume my OYLP application was denied?

IMO, I would assume so. I saw confirmation of OYCP calls coming out Friday on another board:

http://airforceots.com/portal/modules.p ... ic&t=27255

Yeah, there were a few on this board who got the phone call last Friday. I just don't know how long I should wait before calling it. It's good to have some closure imo.

[mlittle5]

So if I don't get a phone call from my SJA today, should I assume my OYLP application was denied?

IMO, I would assume so. I saw confirmation of OYCP calls coming out Friday on another board:

http://airforceots.com/portal/modules.p ... ic&t=27255

Yeah, there were a few on this board who got the phone call last Friday. I just don't know how long I should wait before calling it. It's good to have some closure imo.

I know the feeling. I'm staring at my phone and my Inbox like it's my job.

[turtlejax]

Does anyone know anything about how the looming sequester would affect JAG hiring or commissioning? Are we safe for the most part because the positions are for AD?

[blink]

For those of us really set on JAG even before LS starts, what is some of the most solid advice? I've read a lot of this forum over the years, but it's not easily navigable. Obviously finish towards the top of the class. Moot Court is apparently helpful. Physical fitness is of course a necessity. Leadership qualities are essential. But what other concrete things can help? I don't care what branch, I just want to serve my country and practice a wide variety of law at the same time. I'd love to hear some things people have to say on the topic, things that I can do now before LS or during to help bolster my chances. Thanks!

[Ranger85]

Have any of you that were selected for the Army Summer Internship heard anything about assignments yet? Other than just submitting the wishlist.

I have not. I was only picked as an alternate and figured that I wasn't selected because I didn't hear anything last week either. Were you selected or an alternate?

Selected, The Selection list wasn't due till Feb 18th so some people probably didn't accept and you might still have a shot.

[andythefir]

For those of us really set on JAG even before LS starts, what is some of the most solid advice? I've read a lot of this forum over the years, but it's not easily navigable. Obviously finish towards the top of the class. Moot Court is apparently helpful. Physical fitness is of course a necessity. Leadership qualities are essential. But what other concrete things can help? I don't care what branch, I just want to serve my country and practice a wide variety of law at the same time. I'd love to hear some things people have to say on the topic, things that I can do now before LS or during to help bolster my chances. Thanks!

I came into law school with my heart set on the JAG corp, and so far have had absolutely no success. There really is just 1 thing you have control over that is going to make a substantial difference: get a 1L and 2L summer internship with the JAG. The problem is if you do that you have dramatically reduced your chances for any other employment. Honestly, if I had my heart set on serving I would try to commission outside of the JAG corp. The numbers are just too rough to justify throwing 3 years and lots of money at a chance somewhere between 1 and 10%.

[LSATmakesMeNeurotic]

Have any of you that were selected for the Army Summer Internship heard anything about assignments yet? Other than just submitting the wishlist.

I have not. I was only picked as an alternate and figured that I wasn't selected because I didn't hear anything last week either. Were you selected or an alternate?

Selected, The Selection list wasn't due till Feb 18th so some people probably didn't accept and you might still have a shot.

Just got an email saying the alternates will hopefully have an answer by March 29th. Thanks to Congress not being able to play nicely in the sandbox, the internship program has been stunted.

[bouakedojo]

Just got an email saying the alternates will hopefully have an answer by March 29th. Thanks to Congress not being able to play nicely in the sandbox, the internship program has been stunted.

One of my friends was selected for the official AF internship, but HQ told him they couldn't actually give him an offer until after this sequestration stuff was sorted out. And there's only 25 official interns for the AF total this summer!

[Patrick Bateman]

For those of us really set on JAG even before LS starts, what is some of the most solid advice? I've read a lot of this forum over the years, but it's not easily navigable. Obviously finish towards the top of the class. Moot Court is apparently helpful. Physical fitness is of course a necessity. Leadership qualities are essential. But what other concrete things can help? I don't care what branch, I just want to serve my country and practice a wide variety of law at the same time. I'd love to hear some things people have to say on the topic, things that I can do now before LS or during to help bolster my chances. Thanks!

I came into law school with my heart set on the JAG corp, and so far have had absolutely no success. There really is just 1 thing you have control over that is going to make a substantial difference: get a 1L and 2L summer internship with the JAG. The problem is if you do that you have dramatically reduced your chances for any other employment. Honestly, if I had my heart set on serving I would try to commission outside of the JAG corp. The numbers are just too rough to justify throwing 3 years and lots of money at a chance somewhere between 1 and 10%.

Blink: Beyond what I and others have poured into this board, not sure what else to offer. At the risk of being snarky, read all the thread, more than once. There is a ton of valuable stuff here, from a variety of backgrounds and from all the services (except the Coasties?). If you looking for a silver bullet for accessions success, you are not going to find it. Good grades, moot court/litigation experience, a demonstrated commitment to public service, and an internship if you can land one.

Andy: For the love of God man - It is "Corps." With the "s". "Corp" makes my brain scream at a volume that only a decent single malt can quiet. I suspect my fellow JAGs, or any Marines (heaven help you if the Devil Dogs find you first) on this thread are wired the same way. Also, stop using: "the JAG." Stick with either "JAG" or "the JAG Corps." If you have been typing that stuff out on any application materials and the SJA is as neurotic as I am, it very well could have an adverse impact on your application status. Attention to detail is a hallmark throughout the services and I would certainly ding an applicant for that.

[blink]

For those of us really set on JAG even before LS starts, what is some of the most solid advice? I've read a lot of this forum over the years, but it's not easily navigable. Obviously finish towards the top of the class. Moot Court is apparently helpful. Physical fitness is of course a necessity. Leadership qualities are essential. But what other concrete things can help? I don't care what branch, I just want to serve my country and practice a wide variety of law at the same time. I'd love to hear some things people have to say on the topic, things that I can do now before LS or during to help bolster my chances. Thanks!

I came into law school with my heart set on the JAG corp, and so far have had absolutely no success. There really is just 1 thing you have control over that is going to make a substantial difference: get a 1L and 2L summer internship with the JAG. The problem is if you do that you have dramatically reduced your chances for any other employment. Honestly, if I had my heart set on serving I would try to commission outside of the JAG corp. The numbers are just too rough to justify throwing 3 years and lots of money at a chance somewhere between 1 and 10%.

Blink: Beyond what I and others have poured into this board, not sure what else to offer. At the risk of being snarky, read all the thread, more than once. There is a ton of valuable stuff here, from a variety of backgrounds and from all the services (except the Coasties?). If you looking for a silver bullet for accessions success, you are not going to find it. Good grades, moot court/litigation experience, a demonstrated commitment to public service, and an internship if you can land one.

Andy: For the love of God man - It is "Corps." With the "s". "Corp" makes my brain scream at a volume that only a decent single malt can quiet. I suspect my fellow JAGs, or any Marines (heaven help you if the Devil Dogs find you first) on this thread are wired the same way. Also, stop using: "the JAG." Stick with either "JAG" or "the JAG Corps." If you have been typing that stuff out on any application materials and the SJA is as neurotic as I am, it very well could have an adverse impact on your application status. Attention to detail is a hallmark throughout the services and I would certainly ding an applicant for that.

Yeah, I realize there is a ton of stuff in this thread and I'll need to go back through. I'm not sure if I ever stopped in to say thanks but I really appreciate how much you have contributed Bateman. One specific question...demonstrated interest in public service: I'm in Teach For America now, and I'm wondering how this could help the JAG app process? I don't recall ever reading anything about this.

[Patrick Bateman]

For those of us really set on JAG even before LS starts, what is some of the most solid advice? I've read a lot of this forum over the years, but it's not easily navigable. Obviously finish towards the top of the class. Moot Court is apparently helpful. Physical fitness is of course a necessity. Leadership qualities are essential. But what other concrete things can help? I don't care what branch, I just want to serve my country and practice a wide variety of law at the same time. I'd love to hear some things people have to say on the topic, things that I can do now before LS or during to help bolster my chances. Thanks!

I came into law school with my heart set on the JAG corp, and so far have had absolutely no success. There really is just 1 thing you have control over that is going to make a substantial difference: get a 1L and 2L summer internship with the JAG. The problem is if you do that you have dramatically reduced your chances for any other employment. Honestly, if I had my heart set on serving I would try to commission outside of the JAG corp. The numbers are just too rough to justify throwing 3 years and lots of money at a chance somewhere between 1 and 10%.

Blink: Beyond what I and others have poured into this board, not sure what else to offer. At the risk of being snarky, read all the thread, more than once. There is a ton of valuable stuff here, from a variety of backgrounds and from all the services (except the Coasties?). If you looking for a silver bullet for accessions success, you are not going to find it. Good grades, moot court/litigation experience, a demonstrated commitment to public service, and an internship if you can land one.

Andy: For the love of God man - It is "Corps." With the "s". "Corp" makes my brain scream at a volume that only a decent single malt can quiet. I suspect my fellow JAGs, or any Marines (heaven help you if the Devil Dogs find you first) on this thread are wired the same way. Also, stop using: "the JAG." Stick with either "JAG" or "the JAG Corps." If you have been typing that stuff out on any application materials and the SJA is as neurotic as I am, it very well could have an adverse impact on your application status. Attention to detail is a hallmark throughout the services and I would certainly ding an applicant for that.

Yeah, I realize there is a ton of stuff in this thread and I'll need to go back through. I'm not sure if I ever stopped in to say thanks but I really appreciate how much you have contributed Bateman. One specific question...demonstrated interest in public service: I'm in Teach For America now, and I'm wondering how this could help the JAG app process? I don't recall ever reading anything about this.

Happy to help.

I've never heard anything official from on high regarding a non-profit like TFA. My personal position, were I ever to find myself as an SJA (will occur when glaciers start forming in hell) or at JAX is that I would look on an experience like that favorably. It reflects that you are willing to serve the greater good and have an ambition beyond just a pay check. Those positions are also not easy to get, so it shows you showed yourself as qualified to someone out there. I've come across a number of different personalities in the JAG Corps all of whom had their own reasons for wanting to serve as an officer. As a result, I've never seen a "true" path in terms of public service, be it being prior enlisted, in a USAO/DOJ/Dist Attorney internship, or something a bit less conventional like TFA.

If you are truly good at it, I would also see being a teacher as a quality that could translate well into the trial-lit and advocacy heavy world of the JAG Corps. Our job is to help non-lawyers make important decisions - explaining technical concepts to someone without that specific technical background strikes me as the bread and butter of teaching. Most of the successful litigation track JAGs I know (Area Defense Counsels, Senior Trial Counsels, etc) like to bounce their arguments off of non-lawyers for that very reason. We make our arguments to a panels of AF officers and occasionally senior enlisted, outside of the JAG career field (unless the forum is military judge alone), so the ability to tone down the lawyer in favor the plain-English core concepts can be an incredibly valuable skill.

[blink]

Blink: Beyond what I and others have poured into this board, not sure what else to offer. At the risk of being snarky, read all the thread, more than once. There is a ton of valuable stuff here, from a variety of backgrounds and from all the services (except the Coasties?). If you looking for a silver bullet for accessions success, you are not going to find it. Good grades, moot court/litigation experience, a demonstrated commitment to public service, and an internship if you can land one.

Andy: For the love of God man - It is "Corps." With the "s". "Corp" makes my brain scream at a volume that only a decent single malt can quiet. I suspect my fellow JAGs, or any Marines (heaven help you if the Devil Dogs find you first) on this thread are wired the same way. Also, stop using: "the JAG." Stick with either "JAG" or "the JAG Corps." If you have been typing that stuff out on any application materials and the SJA is as neurotic as I am, it very well could have an adverse impact on your application status. Attention to detail is a hallmark throughout the services and I would certainly ding an applicant for that.

Yeah, I realize there is a ton of stuff in this thread and I'll need to go back through. I'm not sure if I ever stopped in to say thanks but I really appreciate how much you have contributed Bateman. One specific question...demonstrated interest in public service: I'm in Teach For America now, and I'm wondering how this could help the JAG app process? I don't recall ever reading anything about this.

Happy to help.

I've never heard anything official from on high regarding a non-profit like TFA. My personal position, were I ever to find myself as an SJA (will occur when glaciers start forming in hell) or at JAX is that I would look on an experience like that favorably. It reflects that you are willing to serve the greater good and have an ambition beyond just a pay check. Those positions are also not easy to get, so it shows you showed yourself as qualified to someone out there. I've come across a number of different personalities in the JAG Corps all of whom had their own reasons for wanting to serve as an officer. As a result, I've never seen a "true" path in terms of public service, be it being prior enlisted, in a USAO/DOJ/Dist Attorney internship, or something a bit less conventional like TFA.

If you are truly good at it, I would also see being a teacher as a quality that could translate well into the trial-lit and advocacy heavy world of the JAG Corps. Our job is to help non-lawyers make important decisions - explaining technical concepts to someone without that specific technical background strikes me as the bread and butter of teaching. Most of the successful litigation track JAGs I know (Area Defense Counsels, Senior Trial Counsels, etc) like to bounce their arguments off of non-lawyers for that very reason. We make our arguments to a panels of AF officers and occasionally senior enlisted, outside of the JAG career field (unless the forum is military judge alone), so the ability to tone down the lawyer in favor the plain-English core concepts can be an incredibly valuable skill.

Great stuff, Bateman, thanks. One other question that I can't recall ever being answered specifically (but maybe implied often): does the exact degree of physical fitness matter? If I have a perfect score on the fitness tests, will that place me in higher regard than if I have a less impressive, but still sufficient score?

[Patrick Bateman]

Blink: Beyond what I and others have poured into this board, not sure what else to offer. At the risk of being snarky, read all the thread, more than once. There is a ton of valuable stuff here, from a variety of backgrounds and from all the services (except the Coasties?). If you looking for a silver bullet for accessions success, you are not going to find it. Good grades, moot court/litigation experience, a demonstrated commitment to public service, and an internship if you can land one.

Andy: For the love of God man - It is "Corps." With the "s". "Corp" makes my brain scream at a volume that only a decent single malt can quiet. I suspect my fellow JAGs, or any Marines (heaven help you if the Devil Dogs find you first) on this thread are wired the same way. Also, stop using: "the JAG." Stick with either "JAG" or "the JAG Corps." If you have been typing that stuff out on any application materials and the SJA is as neurotic as I am, it very well could have an adverse impact on your application status. Attention to detail is a hallmark throughout the services and I would certainly ding an applicant for that.

Yeah, I realize there is a ton of stuff in this thread and I'll need to go back through. I'm not sure if I ever stopped in to say thanks but I really appreciate how much you have contributed Bateman. One specific question...demonstrated interest in public service: I'm in Teach For America now, and I'm wondering how this could help the JAG app process? I don't recall ever reading anything about this.

Happy to help.

I've never heard anything official from on high regarding a non-profit like TFA. My personal position, were I ever to find myself as an SJA (will occur when glaciers start forming in hell) or at JAX is that I would look on an experience like that favorably. It reflects that you are willing to serve the greater good and have an ambition beyond just a pay check. Those positions are also not easy to get, so it shows you showed yourself as qualified to someone out there. I've come across a number of different personalities in the JAG Corps all of whom had their own reasons for wanting to serve as an officer. As a result, I've never seen a "true" path in terms of public service, be it being prior enlisted, in a USAO/DOJ/Dist Attorney internship, or something a bit less conventional like TFA.

If you are truly good at it, I would also see being a teacher as a quality that could translate well into the trial-lit and advocacy heavy world of the JAG Corps. Our job is to help non-lawyers make important decisions - explaining technical concepts to someone without that specific technical background strikes me as the bread and butter of teaching. Most of the successful litigation track JAGs I know (Area Defense Counsels, Senior Trial Counsels, etc) like to bounce their arguments off of non-lawyers for that very reason. We make our arguments to a panels of AF officers and occasionally senior enlisted, outside of the JAG career field (unless the forum is military judge alone), so the ability to tone down the lawyer in favor the plain-English core concepts can be an incredibly valuable skill.

Great stuff, Bateman, thanks. One other question that I can't recall ever being answered specifically (but maybe implied often): does the exact degree of physical fitness matter? If I have a perfect score on the fitness tests, will that place me in higher regard than if I have a less impressive, but still sufficient score?

It certainly cannot hurt.

Having only applied to AF DAP, I cannot say if this is different for OYCP/GLP, but I am not aware of any PT as part of the application process. A lot of SJAs will ask applicants where they rank and stack on the PT Test (a very good idea do have done a mock test ahead of time so you can tell them where you are ). From personal experience, physical appearance will speak volumes in this category. There is a reason applicants include a picture as part of the application package. If an appicant looks heavy, it really will not matter if they can somehow still run fast. To be successful, you need to look fit. Looking fat (or having an abysmal law school GPA) will generally kill any interview before it even gets off the ground.

If you can honestly say you have cleared 90 on mock AF PT tests for your interview, you will have the box checked in this regard.

[blink]

Happy to help.

I've never heard anything official from on high regarding a non-profit like TFA. My personal position, were I ever to find myself as an SJA (will occur when glaciers start forming in hell) or at JAX is that I would look on an experience like that favorably. It reflects that you are willing to serve the greater good and have an ambition beyond just a pay check. Those positions are also not easy to get, so it shows you showed yourself as qualified to someone out there. I've come across a number of different personalities in the JAG Corps all of whom had their own reasons for wanting to serve as an officer. As a result, I've never seen a "true" path in terms of public service, be it being prior enlisted, in a USAO/DOJ/Dist Attorney internship, or something a bit less conventional like TFA.

If you are truly good at it, I would also see being a teacher as a quality that could translate well into the trial-lit and advocacy heavy world of the JAG Corps. Our job is to help non-lawyers make important decisions - explaining technical concepts to someone without that specific technical background strikes me as the bread and butter of teaching. Most of the successful litigation track JAGs I know (Area Defense Counsels, Senior Trial Counsels, etc) like to bounce their arguments off of non-lawyers for that very reason. We make our arguments to a panels of AF officers and occasionally senior enlisted, outside of the JAG career field (unless the forum is military judge alone), so the ability to tone down the lawyer in favor the plain-English core concepts can be an incredibly valuable skill.

Great stuff, Bateman, thanks. One other question that I can't recall ever being answered specifically (but maybe implied often): does the exact degree of physical fitness matter? If I have a perfect score on the fitness tests, will that place me in higher regard than if I have a less impressive, but still sufficient score?

It certainly cannot hurt.

Having only applied to AF DAP, I cannot say if this is different for OYCP/GLP, but I am not aware of any PT as part of the application process. A lot of SJAs will ask applicants where they rank and stack on the PT Test (a very good idea do have done a mock test ahead of time so you can tell them where you are ). From personal experience, physical appearance will speak volumes in this category. There is a reason applicants include a picture as part of the application package. If an appicant looks heavy, it really will not matter if they can somehow still run fast. To be successful, you need to look fit. Looking fat (or having an abysmal law school GPA) will generally kill any interview before it even gets off the ground.

If you can honestly say you have cleared 90 on mock AF PT tests for your interview, you will have the box checked in this regard.

Awesome; thank you again. Last question, I promise! I've been looking all over for any way to get involved with the USAO/DOJ this summer, but I'm having a hard time. I'm going to just call them tomorrow, but before I go in blind, I was wondering if you know of anything that USAO offers to pre-law students? I'd love to get any kind of experience around cases in the DOJ, since that's where I want to end up long term. Everything they seem to have pertains only to current law students. Your help is much appreciated.

[eas1423]

Re: USAO opportunities -- I interned at the USAO in DC after my 1L year last summer, and we had 1 undergrad intern attached to the program (and probably 75 other law students, total). His girlfriend's mom was one of the section supervisors so that may have had something to do with it -- but anyway, it was possible! Unfortunately they assigned him to routine stuff like copying/filing in the least respected section, Misdemeanors. (Contrast that with USAF JAG, which allowed me to intern as an undergrad but gave me the same work as the law students! Mil beats civ yet again!

Anyway, so, it seems that it could be possible to intern with USAO as an undergrad, but it might be more worth your time to do something over the summer specifically slated for undergrads, and then cut your teeth more thoroughly at USAO when in law school.