Military Law Forum
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Re: Military Law
Anna - We've obviously spoken on PM, but I'd just reiterate: as someone who has gotten a physical from a private doctor and then passed through MEPS, I don't see a downside to your doing it; if this is what you guys want, then push for it! I know reassurance to know either way would be helpful, but the sense I get is that no one really knows. If you send me a PM, I can give you the email of a former Army doc who has been helpful to me, but the reality is it really depends on the specifics that no one here is qualified (I imagine) to evaluate.
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Re: Military Law
I am interested in any tips/advice re: ODS as well. Thanks!xerxes wrote:Also - has anyone gone to Navy ODS lately?
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- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:43 pm
Re: Military Law
Applied for Oct 12 deadline, 2012.
3L, first attempt. No prior military.
Felt interview went great (officers asked about other parts of application, impression i got was that they didnt want me thrown out on a technicallity should they score me high on the interview and move my application along)
Any idea when we should expect to hear back re: professional recommendations? Do they stick to the 8-week timeline?
3L, first attempt. No prior military.
Felt interview went great (officers asked about other parts of application, impression i got was that they didnt want me thrown out on a technicallity should they score me high on the interview and move my application along)
Any idea when we should expect to hear back re: professional recommendations? Do they stick to the 8-week timeline?
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- Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:35 pm
Re: Military Law
legalsport wrote:Applied for Oct 12 deadline, 2012.
3L, first attempt. No prior military.
Felt interview went great (officers asked about other parts of application, impression i got was that they didnt want me thrown out on a technicallity should they score me high on the interview and move my application along)
Any idea when we should expect to hear back re: professional recommendations? Do they stick to the 8-week timeline?
If you don't mind me asking, where did you interview???
I've got an interview at Wright Patterson on the 20th of this month. Just had my application package overnighted today.
I'm really hoping to get in but I doubt it will happen. I've got moot court/moot court board/Ap. Ad. TA on my resume and 4 really good LOR's but I'm in the middle of the class...

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Re: Military Law
blong4133 wrote:legalsport wrote:Applied for Oct 12 deadline, 2012.
3L, first attempt. No prior military.
Felt interview went great (officers asked about other parts of application, impression i got was that they didnt want me thrown out on a technicallity should they score me high on the interview and move my application along)
Any idea when we should expect to hear back re: professional recommendations? Do they stick to the 8-week timeline?
If you don't mind me asking, where did you interview???
I've got an interview at Wright Patterson on the 20th of this month. Just had my application package overnighted today.
I'm really hoping to get in but I doubt it will happen. I've got moot court/moot court board/Ap. Ad. TA on my resume and 4 really good LOR's but I'm in the middle of the class...
For what board are you applying? The Spring board already?
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- howell
- Posts: 615
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Re: Military Law
Looks like legalsport is applying to the Navy, and blong4133 is applying to the Air Force. In case there's some confusion.
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Re: Military Law
yea, sorry about the confusion. applied for Navy. not AF
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Re: Military Law
No, it's for the December board (Air Force). I called a couple of months ago and the paralegal called me a couple of weeks ago to schedule the interview. Told me that I had to have my application submitted and in their hands at least 1 week prior to the interview.Kobe_Teeth wrote:blong4133 wrote:legalsport wrote:Applied for Oct 12 deadline, 2012.
3L, first attempt. No prior military.
Felt interview went great (officers asked about other parts of application, impression i got was that they didnt want me thrown out on a technicallity should they score me high on the interview and move my application along)
Any idea when we should expect to hear back re: professional recommendations? Do they stick to the 8-week timeline?
If you don't mind me asking, where did you interview???
I've got an interview at Wright Patterson on the 20th of this month. Just had my application package overnighted today.
I'm really hoping to get in but I doubt it will happen. I've got moot court/moot court board/Ap. Ad. TA on my resume and 4 really good LOR's but I'm in the middle of the class...
For what board are you applying? The Spring board already?
I've been pushing it to about as late as I could because school has been doing a number on me the past month and half.
And sorry for not catching that you were applying for the Navy, legalsport. I didn't catch that

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Re: Military Law
As far as Navy timetable, I would just call accessions if it gets close and they aren't up. The folks there were great about updating timetable for me.
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- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:23 pm
Re: Military Law
Hey guys. I'm a 2L part-time student and active duty Marine with 18+ years of service. I just applied for the Navy SP and my interview was amazing; particularly because I interned over the summer with the same Capt that I interviewed with.
My concerns are my school and GPA. I'm stationed in Hawaii, so I didn't have a choice of schools. This is the only one for 2500 miles! Right now, Hawaii is a low tier 1 school.
My GPA when I submitted my application was 3.25, but after the deadline I had some grades come in that bumped it up to 3.43.
I keep hearing that the fact that I'm active duty will help, but it still doesn't make me feel any better. Does anyone have any clue of what the average law school GPA is of incoming Navy JAGs?
Thanks.
My concerns are my school and GPA. I'm stationed in Hawaii, so I didn't have a choice of schools. This is the only one for 2500 miles! Right now, Hawaii is a low tier 1 school.
My GPA when I submitted my application was 3.25, but after the deadline I had some grades come in that bumped it up to 3.43.
I keep hearing that the fact that I'm active duty will help, but it still doesn't make me feel any better. Does anyone have any clue of what the average law school GPA is of incoming Navy JAGs?
Thanks.
- Ex Cearulo
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:51 pm
Re: Military Law
You're Active Duty with 18+ yrs of service and the Navy lets you apply to a JAG program?! How many of those have you been an officer? I ask because the Air Force's limit is 10 years of total active federal commissioned service. I'm curious to know if it's the same for the Navy, perhaps due to federal statute, or if the Navy is just way more lenient with letting people pursue their JAG ambitions.CouchAJ wrote:Hey guys. I'm a 2L part-time student and active duty Marine with 18+ years of service. I just applied for the Navy SP and my interview was amazing; particularly because I interned over the summer with the same Capt that I interviewed with.
My concerns are my school and GPA. I'm stationed in Hawaii, so I didn't have a choice of schools. This is the only one for 2500 miles! Right now, Hawaii is a low tier 1 school.
My GPA when I submitted my application was 3.25, but after the deadline I had some grades come in that bumped it up to 3.43.
I keep hearing that the fact that I'm active duty will help, but it still doesn't make me feel any better. Does anyone have any clue of what the average law school GPA is of incoming Navy JAGs?
Thanks.
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- Posts: 17
- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:23 pm
Re: Military Law
I'm enlisted, so I don't have any commissioned time.HawgDriver wrote:You're Active Duty with 18+ yrs of service and the Navy lets you apply to a JAG program?! How many of those have you been an officer? I ask because the Air Force's limit is 10 years of total active federal commissioned service. I'm curious to know if it's the same for the Navy, perhaps due to federal statute, or if the Navy is just way more lenient with letting people pursue their JAG ambitions.CouchAJ wrote:Hey guys. I'm a 2L part-time student and active duty Marine with 18+ years of service. I just applied for the Navy SP and my interview was amazing; particularly because I interned over the summer with the same Capt that I interviewed with.
My concerns are my school and GPA. I'm stationed in Hawaii, so I didn't have a choice of schools. This is the only one for 2500 miles! Right now, Hawaii is a low tier 1 school.
My GPA when I submitted my application was 3.25, but after the deadline I had some grades come in that bumped it up to 3.43.
I keep hearing that the fact that I'm active duty will help, but it still doesn't make me feel any better. Does anyone have any clue of what the average law school GPA is of incoming Navy JAGs?
Thanks.
From my understanding, the Air Force is the only branch that caps the prior service time for incoming officers. They (and the Marine Corps) also have lower maximum age limits for new officers.
One could look at the Navy's requirements as "way more lenient" or as making way more sense. If I had a 15 year MSgt in the AF that came in enlisted with no degree, managed his time wisely enough to earn not only a bachelors degree but also a J.D., all while maintaining operational readiness, I would think that he would be an excellent candidate for JAG. He already knows the service, policies and regulations...he's more than likely a proven leader, and has probably been training young officers for a while. Why stop a guy like that from becoming a JAG because he’s been in over 10 years?
Statutorily, the big limitation is the ability to retire before your 62nd birthday. I could do 40 years in the Navy/Marine Corps and still be under that bar.
- Ex Cearulo
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- Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:51 pm
Re: Military Law
You're preaching to the choir, brother. Although I think the way the Air Force does it means you have to have less than 10 years of total commissioned service time; so enlisted time wouldn't count against you, but the age thing could obviously still be a factor depending on the situation.CouchAJ wrote:I'm enlisted, so I don't have any commissioned time.HawgDriver wrote: You're Active Duty with 18+ yrs of service and the Navy lets you apply to a JAG program?! How many of those have you been an officer? I ask because the Air Force's limit is 10 years of total active federal commissioned service. I'm curious to know if it's the same for the Navy, perhaps due to federal statute, or if the Navy is just way more lenient with letting people pursue their JAG ambitions.
From my understanding, the Air Force is the only branch that caps the prior service time for incoming officers. They (and the Marine Corps) also have lower maximum age limits for new officers.
One could look at the Navy's requirements as "way more lenient" or as making way more sense. If I had a 15 year MSgt in the AF that came in enlisted with no degree, managed his time wisely enough to earn not only a bachelors degree but also a J.D., all while maintaining operational readiness, I would think that he would be an excellent candidate for JAG. He already knows the service, policies and regulations...he's more than likely a proven leader, and has probably been training young officers for a while. Why stop a guy like that from becoming a JAG because he’s been in over 10 years?
Statutorily, the big limitation is the ability to retire before your 62nd birthday. I could do 40 years in the Navy/Marine Corps and still be under that bar.
However, they also require you to be an O-3 with less than three years time-in-grade by the first day of law school. If I'm released from my career field (BIG if...don't get me started), I'm going to have to convince JAG to give me a waiver when I apply because I'll be 3 months (months!) over the limit. Does the Navy have a similar limitation?
On one hand, I understand it, because what are you going to do with a Major fresh out of law school who, after 3 yrs of law school, only has about 5-7 yrs left until he can retire? I could understand the argument of it not being worth it to the AF in the long run. But even then, someone applying under those circumstances will be required to apply to the program (Excess Leave Program) in which the Air Force pays zero law school tuition and zero salary except for 2 months in the summer! So it's not like they'd be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars out of pocket for someone to go to law school and then only serve for 4 yrs. The financial risk is almost zero and, in return, you get a highly motivated (why else would they give up almost 100% of their pay for 3 years?!) and highly experienced officer.
On the other hand, I don't see why they would handcuff themselves and why they couldn't approach it like the medical corps does. I have a personal friend who was a pilot, went to med school as a Major, but after he graduated he came out as a Capt and had to serve a certain amount of time as a Capt until he got promoted again. If someone is that dedicated to being a JAG and also brings a great deal of professional AF experience to the table, how does that not make the JAG Corps stronger? Why would you not even consider someone who has been a Capt for more than 3 years or even four years?
Obviously, I'm biased. And I'd love to hear someone else's opinion and get into a respectable debate about the merits of allowing older officers to apply to the JAG Corps. It's just extremely frustrating to me that after 6 years of service in a very demanding career field that the Air Force may not even consider the possibility of allowing me to continue to serve as a lawyer, which is what I'm passionate about doing.
:::steps off soap box:::
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Re: Military Law
I don't know about the Navy's Excess Leave Program (or if they even have one), but in the Marine Corps, to qualify for the ELP-L, you have to be an O3 or below with a minimum of 2 but not more than 6 years total active duty (commissioned and enlisted combined). I don't think we have any TIG limitations.HawgDriver wrote:You're preaching to the choir, brother. Although I think the way the Air Force does it means you have to have less than 10 years of total commissioned service time; so enlisted time wouldn't count against you, but the age thing could obviously still be a factor depending on the situation.CouchAJ wrote:I'm enlisted, so I don't have any commissioned time.HawgDriver wrote: You're Active Duty with 18+ yrs of service and the Navy lets you apply to a JAG program?! How many of those have you been an officer? I ask because the Air Force's limit is 10 years of total active federal commissioned service. I'm curious to know if it's the same for the Navy, perhaps due to federal statute, or if the Navy is just way more lenient with letting people pursue their JAG ambitions.
From my understanding, the Air Force is the only branch that caps the prior service time for incoming officers. They (and the Marine Corps) also have lower maximum age limits for new officers.
One could look at the Navy's requirements as "way more lenient" or as making way more sense. If I had a 15 year MSgt in the AF that came in enlisted with no degree, managed his time wisely enough to earn not only a bachelors degree but also a J.D., all while maintaining operational readiness, I would think that he would be an excellent candidate for JAG. He already knows the service, policies and regulations...he's more than likely a proven leader, and has probably been training young officers for a while. Why stop a guy like that from becoming a JAG because he’s been in over 10 years?
Statutorily, the big limitation is the ability to retire before your 62nd birthday. I could do 40 years in the Navy/Marine Corps and still be under that bar.
However, they also require you to be an O-3 with less than three years time-in-grade by the first day of law school. If I'm released from my career field (BIG if...don't get me started), I'm going to have to convince JAG to give me a waiver when I apply because I'll be 3 months (months!) over the limit. Does the Navy have a similar limitation?
On one hand, I understand it, because what are you going to do with a Major fresh out of law school who, after 3 yrs of law school, only has about 5-7 yrs left until he can retire? I could understand the argument of it not being worth it to the AF in the long run. But even then, someone applying under those circumstances will be required to apply to the program (Excess Leave Program) in which the Air Force pays zero law school tuition and zero salary except for 2 months in the summer! So it's not like they'd be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars out of pocket for someone to go to law school and then only serve for 4 yrs. The financial risk is almost zero and, in return, you get a highly motivated (why else would they give up almost 100% of their pay for 3 years?!) and highly experienced officer.
On the other hand, I don't see why they would handcuff themselves and why they couldn't approach it like the medical corps does. I have a personal friend who was a pilot, went to med school as a Major, but after he graduated he came out as a Capt and had to serve a certain amount of time as a Capt until he got promoted again. If someone is that dedicated to being a JAG and also brings a great deal of professional AF experience to the table, how does that not make the JAG Corps stronger? Why would you not even consider someone who has been a Capt for more than 3 years or even four years?
Obviously, I'm biased. And I'd love to hear someone else's opinion and get into a respectable debate about the merits of allowing older officers to apply to the JAG Corps. It's just extremely frustrating to me that after 6 years of service in a very demanding career field that the Air Force may not even consider the possibility of allowing me to continue to serve as a lawyer, which is what I'm passionate about doing.
:::steps off soap box:::
However, if you are interested in the Navy's JAG program and you don't already have a degree, you can apply in your 2 or 3L year to the Student Program and execute an interservice transfer (DD Form 368) if accepted. Or, depending on how long your current commitment is, you could simply EAS from the Air Force and commission into the Navy after law school. You may have to start off in a part-time program somewhere (like me), but it’s not impossible. You would get constructive service credit for law school and your prior commission to start you out as an O3. May be a step down from where you could be after 3 years, but at least you would be in the JAG.
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Re: Military Law
Good luck to everyone who applied Army!
I'll probably be hurt by my lack of quality LORs, but I'm out of school and it gets more difficult.
I'll probably be hurt by my lack of quality LORs, but I'm out of school and it gets more difficult.
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- Posts: 173
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Re: Military Law
Hey guys, I am a senior in Undergrad and would like to become a JAG Officer. I know I am far off, but I am going to apply to all the internships and ROTC programs during law schools. I am currently in the process of choosing law schools, and I have an option of a part-time program. Would this hurt me for the ROTC programs or DAP? Or do they like to see this?
Thanks
Thanks
- LazinessPerSe
- Posts: 207
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:18 am
Re: Military Law
Not to deter you from your dream if you're super committed, but just know that the selection rates right now for most branches are between 5-10% of applicants. I wouldn't bank on a job is all. On your question - do you have a part or full-time job keeping you from attending law school full-time? What are you looking to gain from going part-time? A part-time program theoretically does not hurt you for DAP since DAP requires a degree and bar passage. Not sure if it hurts you with the student programs.hoogs23 wrote:Hey guys, I am a senior in Undergrad and would like to become a JAG Officer. I know I am far off, but I am going to apply to all the internships and ROTC programs during law schools. I am currently in the process of choosing law schools, and I have an option of a part-time program. Would this hurt me for the ROTC programs or DAP? Or do they like to see this?
Thanks
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Re: Military Law
Part-time at a T14 with a full-time job lined up, but not sure if I want to go that route; just looking for some advice right now. And, I do know about the job prospects, so I would be pursuing other jobs also so whichever would come first.LazinessPerSe wrote:Not to deter you from your dream if you're super committed, but just know that the selection rates right now for most branches are between 5-10% of applicants. I wouldn't bank on a job is all. On your question - do you have a part or full-time job keeping you from attending law school full-time? What are you looking to gain from going part-time? A part-time program theoretically does not hurt you for DAP since DAP requires a degree and bar passage. Not sure if it hurts you with the student programs.hoogs23 wrote:Hey guys, I am a senior in Undergrad and would like to become a JAG Officer. I know I am far off, but I am going to apply to all the internships and ROTC programs during law schools. I am currently in the process of choosing law schools, and I have an option of a part-time program. Would this hurt me for the ROTC programs or DAP? Or do they like to see this?
Thanks
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- Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 8:42 pm
Re: Military Law
My thought would be go to the best school you can, and worry about ramifications later. I personally don't know how much GT's part time program compares in terms of the way it looks vs. regular degree, but I doubt it would hurt you; if anything, it shows you can multi-task, etc.
With that being said, I have no idea if there is any stigma to a part-time program that might hurt you. I don't know of any, but would be hard to say.
With that being said, I have no idea if there is any stigma to a part-time program that might hurt you. I don't know of any, but would be hard to say.
- howell
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am
Re: Military Law
I went part-time my first three years of law school and then full-time my last year, and it was never directly a problem in my interviews, nor was it mentioned as a problem in feedback from an SJA after the SJA received feedback from the selection board. Any problem or benefit from going part-time will be something indirect. Here are some areas I received feedback on from JAG officers in different branches both before and after my interviews:
- Leadership positions: JAG likes to see a history of leadership. If you're working full-time and going to school part-time, working in leadership roles on top of all of that can be difficult. On the other hand, if you directly manage people in your full-time job, then that is a positive. Having a history of leadership before law school is always good, but showing that you have the desire and capacity to lead in anything you do is also beneficial, so finding leadership roles while in law school is helpful.
- Actual legal experience: I had two different recruiting/interviewing officers (Army and Air Force) suggest that getting actual legal experience on my resume would be a plus. If you're working a full-time job, it's likely not in a capacity that counts for this, and working in internships can be pretty much impossible for some people working FT and going to school PT.
- Non-law service activities: I had secondary feedback from an SJA I interviewed with that showing interests outside of law while in law school would be helpful, specifically some kind of community service activity. As someone who worked 50+ hours a week during most of law school, maintained good grades, did law review & moot court, was an SBA representative, and volunteered with an organization that provided wills and other documents for first responders, this was kind of discouraging to hear.
There are other areas where you might face challenges or possibly some advantages. My GPA/rank was also evaluated as any other GPA/rank - no one cared whether I just went to school part-time and didn't have to work or if I worked 60 hours a week and still maintained a good GPA. Depending on your situation, this can be a positive or a negative for you.
Extracurricular activities in law school (law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.) are also viewed favorably by the selection board to different degrees. Working these in while working FT and going to school PT can be very difficult (although doable at most schools).
My take is that you will be evaluated like any other candidate, so the important thing is learning what JAG interviewers and selection boards are looking for and presenting that in your application package and interview no matter what obstacles you have to overcome to build your resume in such a fashion. Going PT can be a blessing or a curse in doing so.
- Leadership positions: JAG likes to see a history of leadership. If you're working full-time and going to school part-time, working in leadership roles on top of all of that can be difficult. On the other hand, if you directly manage people in your full-time job, then that is a positive. Having a history of leadership before law school is always good, but showing that you have the desire and capacity to lead in anything you do is also beneficial, so finding leadership roles while in law school is helpful.
- Actual legal experience: I had two different recruiting/interviewing officers (Army and Air Force) suggest that getting actual legal experience on my resume would be a plus. If you're working a full-time job, it's likely not in a capacity that counts for this, and working in internships can be pretty much impossible for some people working FT and going to school PT.
- Non-law service activities: I had secondary feedback from an SJA I interviewed with that showing interests outside of law while in law school would be helpful, specifically some kind of community service activity. As someone who worked 50+ hours a week during most of law school, maintained good grades, did law review & moot court, was an SBA representative, and volunteered with an organization that provided wills and other documents for first responders, this was kind of discouraging to hear.
There are other areas where you might face challenges or possibly some advantages. My GPA/rank was also evaluated as any other GPA/rank - no one cared whether I just went to school part-time and didn't have to work or if I worked 60 hours a week and still maintained a good GPA. Depending on your situation, this can be a positive or a negative for you.
Extracurricular activities in law school (law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.) are also viewed favorably by the selection board to different degrees. Working these in while working FT and going to school PT can be very difficult (although doable at most schools).
My take is that you will be evaluated like any other candidate, so the important thing is learning what JAG interviewers and selection boards are looking for and presenting that in your application package and interview no matter what obstacles you have to overcome to build your resume in such a fashion. Going PT can be a blessing or a curse in doing so.
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Re: Military Law
Yeah it is a tough choice, seems like a lot. Probably better to go the traditional route. Thanks for all the help
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- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:26 pm
Re: Military Law
For anyone curious and interested in the timeline, those of us in the 190th JAOBC (Army) starting in February received our list of possible duty locations yesterday - about three months out from our start date.
- howell
- Posts: 615
- Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:57 am
Re: Military Law
Just curious, but how does that work? Is that just them narrowing it down, or do you have some ability to select your duty location?Jagjen82 wrote:For anyone curious and interested in the timeline, those of us in the 190th JAOBC (Army) starting in February received our list of possible duty locations yesterday - about three months out from our start date.
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Re: Military Law
Out of curiosity, what are the available duty stations for the 190th JAOBC?
- Esquire
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:45 pm
Re: Military Law
They give you a list of locations. You put in for your preferences. They use that preference sheet to help determine where to put the new JAGs.howell wrote:Just curious, but how does that work? Is that just them narrowing it down, or do you have some ability to select your duty location?Jagjen82 wrote:For anyone curious and interested in the timeline, those of us in the 190th JAOBC (Army) starting in February received our list of possible duty locations yesterday - about three months out from our start date.
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