Military Law Forum

[klussy]

I was submitting my application, realized I needed an LSAT score report....and wtf?! My percentile dropped, magically, from 92 to 91! My old email that I dug up from 2009 says: "Your December 2009 LSAT score is 165. The percentile rank is 92." Yet when I log in to LSAC it is suddenly 91.

This pisses me off more than it should.

[LazinessPerSe]

Just for all you JAG gunners:

I didn't do so well on the LSAT; my percentile was pretty low. If only I could have taken it again. Good news on that front. Turns out that your LSAT score doesn't need to be your law school application score. There's nothing preventing you (read: me) from retaking the LSAT while in law school and gunning a much better score.

I'll give Navy JAG two application cycles before I go through that pain again. Even still, the option is there for any who are willing to climb that mountain again.

[howell]

Just for all you JAG gunners:

I didn't do so well on the LSAT; my percentile was pretty low. If only I could have taken it again. Good news on that front. Turns out that your LSAT score doesn't need to be your law school application score. There's nothing preventing you (read: me) from retaking the LSAT while in law school and gunning a much better score.

I'll give Navy JAG two application cycles before I go through that pain again. Even still, the option is there for any who are willing to climb that mountain again.

I had wondered about this. Did someone confirm this for you?

I felt a bit duped when I had to produce my LSAT score for anything other than law school admission. When I was applying to law school, I knew I only needed a certain score to get into the school I wanted to attend, so I took an earlier LSAT that didn't allow me much time to study. Just wanted to get it done. It's a long story, but I am confident I could have done better with just a few more weeks of practice.

[balzie94]

Just for all you JAG gunners:

I didn't do so well on the LSAT; my percentile was pretty low. If only I could have taken it again. Good news on that front. Turns out that your LSAT score doesn't need to be your law school application score. There's nothing preventing you (read: me) from retaking the LSAT while in law school and gunning a much better score.

I'll give Navy JAG two application cycles before I go through that pain again. Even still, the option is there for any who are willing to climb that mountain again.

Are you sure that's a constructive use of your time? Remember, the Navy requires you to list all of your LSAT scores and the date(s) on which you took it. It might look a little odd that you took the LSAT while in law school. On top of this, the LSAT does not play a huge role in the process anyway, provided that you do very well in your Navy interview, as we have established here. Perhaps if you scored a 150 and you are confident you could score a 160 or better, retaking it would be advisable. But outside of that, I just don't see it.

[BetterCallSaul!]

Just for all you JAG gunners:

I didn't do so well on the LSAT; my percentile was pretty low. If only I could have taken it again. Good news on that front. Turns out that your LSAT score doesn't need to be your law school application score. There's nothing preventing you (read: me) from retaking the LSAT while in law school and gunning a much better score.

I'll give Navy JAG two application cycles before I go through that pain again. Even still, the option is there for any who are willing to climb that mountain again.

Are you sure that's a constructive use of your time? Remember, the Navy requires you to list all of your LSAT scores and the date(s) on which you took it. It might look a little odd that you took the LSAT while in law school. On top of this, the LSAT does not play a huge role in the process anyway, provided that you do very well in your Navy interview, as we have established here. Perhaps if you scored a 150 and you are confident you could score a 160 or better, retaking it would be advisable. But outside of that, I just don't see it.

+1. You might want to strengthen your application by volunteering your time/services somewhere (e.g. soup kitchen, tutoring, legal assistance, etc...)

[Patrick Bateman]

Have an interview coming up with the AF. I just finished reading all 137 pages. Right about page 110 with all of the discussions regarding LSAT, School, and Rankings, I got extremely nervous. I really want to serve and believe I have a lot to offer as a “whole person” concept; however, considering the above, I am not sure if I have any chance to stand whatsoever .

Point of clarification: while AF applicants have to submit LSAT paperwork as part of the application package, it does not play into our selection process. To the best of my knowledge, it is only the Navy (and maybe this extends to the Marine Corps) that actively considers the LSAT for accessions.

[Pogues]

To Captain Bateman and the other Air Force insiders.

On page 98 of this board, it looks like last years Air Force October DAP selection board made its decision by 14 October. I don't want to start the rumor mill rolling, but, do you have any thoughts about when the selection board will meet/make its decision this year?

Thank you again for your contributions to this thread.

[LazinessPerSe]

Just for all you JAG gunners:

I didn't do so well on the LSAT; my percentile was pretty low. If only I could have taken it again. Good news on that front. Turns out that your LSAT score doesn't need to be your law school application score. There's nothing preventing you (read: me) from retaking the LSAT while in law school and gunning a much better score.

I'll give Navy JAG two application cycles before I go through that pain again. Even still, the option is there for any who are willing to climb that mountain again.

Are you sure that's a constructive use of your time? Remember, the Navy requires you to list all of your LSAT scores and the date(s) on which you took it. It might look a little odd that you took the LSAT while in law school. On top of this, the LSAT does not play a huge role in the process anyway, provided that you do very well in your Navy interview, as we have established here. Perhaps if you scored a 150 and you are confident you could score a 160 or better, retaking it would be advisable. But outside of that, I just don't see it.

I don't see a reason why you can't achieve both success on a retake and constructively use your time for another activity to bolster the package too. There is no in-depth hours analysis on how many days you went to the soup kitchen or worked for the VA clinic. For myself, I fall into that 150 range and would retake for a 160+. To answer a previous question, yes, this was confirmed as an interesting but nonetheless viable option.

My only point is just that - it's an option for those like myself who scored poorly and want to shore up parts of the application.

[bouakedojo]

I don't see a reason why you can't achieve both success on a retake and constructively use your time for another activity to bolster the package too. There is no in-depth hours analysis on how many days you went to the soup kitchen or worked for the VA clinic. For myself, I fall into that 150 range and would retake for a 160+. To answer a previous question, yes, this was confirmed as an interesting but nonetheless viable option.

My only point is just that - it's an option for those like myself who scored poorly and want to shore up parts of the application.

Do you not have a 162?

I am not on any admissions boards, of course, but I personally would question the judgment of doing something like that. But then again, I hate the LSAT, so....

If you decide to go that route, best of luck to you.

[Scotusnerd]

Do you not have a 162?

I am not on any admissions boards, of course, but I personally would question the judgment of doing something like that. But then again, I hate the LSAT, so....

If you decide to go that route, best of luck to you.

yeah, I gotta agree with questioning the judgment of that. That just smells wrong to me.

[MeredithDC]

To Captain Bateman and the other Air Force insiders.

On page 98 of this board, it looks like last years Air Force October DAP selection board made its decision by 14 October. I don't want to start the rumor mill rolling, but, do you have any thoughts about when the selection board will meet/make its decision this year?

Thank you again for your contributions to this thread.

I second this question!

[Patrick Bateman]

To Captain Bateman and the other Air Force insiders.

On page 98 of this board, it looks like last years Air Force October DAP selection board made its decision by 14 October. I don't want to start the rumor mill rolling, but, do you have any thoughts about when the selection board will meet/make its decision this year?

Thank you again for your contributions to this thread.

If I had to ballpark, I would expect around 16 Nov. I doubt the board will even convene before 14 October of this year.

And while I am a sucker for military customs and courtesies, no one out there actually needs to be prefixing my online moniker with actual rank. I'm not actually Patrick Bateman; he is happily employed as a Vice President at the investment firm of Pierce & Pierce.

[MeredithDC]

If I had to ballpark, I would expect around 16 Nov. I doubt the board will even convene before 14 October of this year.

Yikes. I was told end of October in my interview, but I guess things have changed. Here is to another month of waiting by the phone!

Would you suggest going ahead and scheduling an interview time for the December board? At some point on its FB page the AF said that we would know back in time to re interview for December, but we will need to have the next interview scheduled by November 15 correct?

Thanks!

[Pogues]

To Captain Bateman and the other Air Force insiders.

On page 98 of this board, it looks like last years Air Force October DAP selection board made its decision by 14 October. I don't want to start the rumor mill rolling, but, do you have any thoughts about when the selection board will meet/make its decision this year?

Thank you again for your contributions to this thread.

If I had to ballpark, I would expect around 16 Nov. I doubt the board will even convene before 14 October of this year.

And while I am a sucker for military customs and courtesies, no one out there actually needs to be prefixing my online moniker with actual rank. I'm not actually Patrick Bateman; he is happily employed as a Vice President at the investment firm of Pierce & Pierce.

On the Bateman thing - that's good to know. Here I was thinking they let American Psychos into the JAG Corps.

16 November huh? Guess Meredith and I will have a long wait. Thanks again

[Patrick Bateman]

If I had to ballpark, I would expect around 16 Nov. I doubt the board will even convene before 14 October of this year.

Yikes. I was told end of October in my interview, but I guess things have changed. Here is to another month of waiting by the phone!

Would you suggest going ahead and scheduling an interview time for the December board? At some point on its FB page the AF said that we would know back in time to re interview for December, but we will need to have the next interview scheduled by November 15 correct?

Thanks!

As I've noted before, my estimate on when the selections will come out is nothing more than a scientific wild ass guess (SWAG). I'm not with JAX or the official accessions process in anyway, so the date could easily be sooner than later.

Your question is a good one and an issue that applicants have had before. You are correct that your drop-dead date for the Dec board is 15 Nov. My recommendation has always been to set up your SJA interview and prep the application package so you can meet the deadline for the Dec board. There is no harm in letting the SJA know in the interview that you have a pending application for the previous board - the SJAs generally have two weeks to staff the package up to JAX, so if you are selected in that window, they do not have to send anything up.

[8444]

Has anyone been through USAF JAG on-campus interview this semester? Is it simply an informational interview, or could it lead to success with DA or OYCP?

[Pogues]

Has anyone been through USAF JAG on-campus interview this semester? Is it simply an informational interview, or could it lead to success with DA or OYCP?

The on-campus interviews are pretty much information sessions. That being said, you should still go to them. I did it, and it helped me set up an externship at an Air Force Base near my school. At the very least, you will get to meet a few Captains who might be able to help you later on. Good luck to you!

[brownshoe]

How bad would it be to have two DUIs (one 5+ years ago; one this year)?

I'm incredibly interested in JAG (probably Navy), and I'm otherwise a strong applicant, but I'm worried this will fuck me. Thoughts?

Pretty bad. There are few absolutes, but that's probably a dealbreaker.

[Scotusnerd]

How bad would it be to have two DUIs (one 5+ years ago; one this year)?

I'm incredibly interested in JAG (probably Navy), and I'm otherwise a strong applicant, but I'm worried this will fuck me. Thoughts?

When the Navy JAG captain came to our school for a presentation, we got numbers from him. He said approximately 3,000 people applied last year. They took 35.

I'm glad you're interested in JAG, but I'm not sure if it's in the cards for you, based on what he said. It's incredibly competitive. Particularly with a recent DUI, they will probably take an extremely hard look at your application.

I'm not saying 'don't bother', but that is definitely not a good sign.

Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were in law school when you got that DUI. That's definitely really bad. Here, the Supreme Court would put the fear of God in you right about now. They have a glut of lawyers and are looking for reasons to boot people. C&F would be an excellent reason in this case.

[balzie94]

How bad would it be to have two DUIs (one 5+ years ago; one this year)?

When the Navy JAG captain came to our school for a presentation, we got numbers from him. He said approximately 3,000 people applied last year. They took 35.

There's no way 3,000 people applied to SP or DAP last year. Not even close. Sorry.

[BetterCallSaul!]

How bad would it be to have two DUIs (one 5+ years ago; one this year)?

I'm incredibly interested in JAG (probably Navy), and I'm otherwise a strong applicant, but I'm worried this will fuck me. Thoughts?

This is a pretty big deal -- especially given one happened this year. And while I think your chances for securing a Judge Advocate slot are small as a result, you will never know your chances if you don't try. Just try to make your package as strong as possible. Own up to your mistake and recover. It might take several boards (or even years) for you to prove you're JA worthy.

Just keep at it if you really want it. Persistence is key.

[bouakedojo]

How bad would it be to have two DUIs (one 5+ years ago; one this year)?

When the Navy JAG captain came to our school for a presentation, we got numbers from him. He said approximately 3,000 people applied last year. They took 35.

There's no way 3,000 people applied to SP or DAP last year. Not even close. Sorry.

That does sound like a really high number. Selection rates were 1% last year?

How bad would it be to have two DUIs (one 5+ years ago; one this year)?

I'm incredibly interested in JAG (probably Navy), and I'm otherwise a strong applicant, but I'm worried this will fuck me. Thoughts?

I would have a plan B ready, because I would guess that would kill your app.

[balzie94]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure a recent DUI would kill your app. Sorry, son.

[Patrick Bateman]

How bad would it be to have two DUIs (one 5+ years ago; one this year)?

I'm incredibly interested in JAG (probably Navy), and I'm otherwise a strong applicant, but I'm worried this will fuck me. Thoughts?

There are few absolutes, but that's probably a dealbreaker.

Agreed 100%.

Based on my time in so far, I cannot envision any situation in which you can get selected. Some criminal conduct can be excused if it happened when you were a teenager or under some other mitigating circumstance. Your issue is that the most recent one occurred in the "you knew better" phase of life and is compounded by the fact that you were an also law student.

When it is done right, officers are selected because they have the intelligence, judgment, and maturity to be able to lead and set the example. The double DUI calls all those characteristics into question for you, even if you have otherwise outstanding things on your resume.

[balzie94]

Out of curiosity, and not to sound dumb, but do minor traffic infractions hurt a candidate's chances? I noticed on the AF form it asked about even speeding tickets, etc.