Military Law Forum

[BHL]

Thanks for the advice.

As a follow up, any idea what my letters of recommendation should include/not include? My recommenders have been asking. I told them to comment on my legal skills, leadership ability, etc.

An SJA, who had been on the review committee, told me that ensuring that you've out the maxed out the number of LORs is more important than having great LORs. He said sometimes the reviewers don't even give them much attention, but look more so to see if you have 5 LORs. Imo, I don't think they matter much. I didn't max out on my LORs when I applied and was still admitted, but I would've supplied more LORs had I had enough time. Regardless, the JAG website tells you to get LORs that can attest to your "work ethic, duty performance, leadership potential, etc." Tell your recommenders that and sit down with them for a chat session so they can pick your brain for potential LOR material.

[brownshoe]

Thanks for the advice.

As a follow up, any idea what my letters of recommendation should include/not include? My recommenders have been asking. I told them to comment on my legal skills, leadership ability, etc.

In addition to ^, make sure the recommender gives a sense of how well he/she knows you & how closely you've worked/how long. This establishes the credibility of the author.

Ask them to compare you with others who have been/are in similar positions, but only if it would be a very positive comment. Good but not great here could damn you with faint praise.

Finally, CONCRETE EXAMPLES of why he/she says such good things about you.

Oh, and it all has to be done in a page.

I totally agree with this - have the recommender compare you to others in your position/class. Have him/her give specific examples that explain the characterstics they attribute to you. I did this exactly, and apparently it worked. Keep in mind 3miles - I was a prior officer and applied through the SP, so things might be different for you as a DA. I'm sure they want the same attributes - leadership/service/integrity - but I would imagine they put quite a bit of emphasis on what you've done in practice - just speculation. Good luck.

[SoxyPirate]

also interested in JAG

[J-Rod]

So, something a LTC told me today is that the Army is changing their loan repayment policy so that upon entering the JAGC, you will receive $65k, and you will still be eligible for the money for continuing service at 4 years, and 6 years, and then another $60k when you complete the Graduate Course around year 8-9 . . . are the other branches going to be doing something similar? Perhaps Rotor or Bateman might be aware of this?

[Rotor]

So, something a LTC told me today is that the Army is changing their loan repayment policy so that upon entering the JAGC, you will receive $65k, and you will still be eligible for the money for continuing service at 4 years, and 6 years, and then another $60k when you complete the Graduate Course around year 8-9 . . . are the other branches going to be doing something similar? Perhaps Rotor or Bateman might be aware of this?

Sorry, don't know anything about the Navy JAG incentives. I do know that our overall end-strength is well above our programmed/budgeted, so all reenlistment bonuses have been suspended for the remainder of FY09 (yes, that's for enlisted bonuses, but I expect the officer bonus programs to be adjusted similarly). Looking at the FY10 budget, it's only getting worse not better; but JAGC may be insulated since recruiting/retention of advanced degree types (JAG, Medical, etc) may still require bonus $.

[lawlover829]

ur pic is cute.

[Patrick Bateman]

So, something a LTC told me today is that the Army is changing their loan repayment policy so that upon entering the JAGC, you will receive $65k, and you will still be eligible for the money for continuing service at 4 years, and 6 years, and then another $60k when you complete the Graduate Course around year 8-9 . . . are the other branches going to be doing something similar? Perhaps Rotor or Bateman might be aware of this?

I am well aware of the Army policy.
--LinkRemoved--

My understanding is the following:
Under LRP, the Army will repay 33 1/3 percent or $1,500 per year, whichever amount is greater, after the Soldier's successful completion of each year on active duty. The total maximum amount that the Army will repay under LRP is $65,000.

It requires you give up GI Bill entitlements. It also, obviously, requires you to be in the Army. Even had I know about this program when I was applying for my commission as a 3L, I would not have hesitated in sticking with USAF.


The unofficial word around AF JAG is that our higher ups are responding in due course. I've heard quite a bit that the continuation pay ($20K at 4 years, $40K at 6) will increase, perhaps even doubling. There are also plenty of rumors regarding a LRP program similar to the Army's, but I am taking it all with a grain of salt.

I do not want to speculate too much about policy changes until I get something in writing from the powers that be in DC. If I come across anything in this regard that I am able to distribute to the public, I'll be sure to post.

I would consider calling 800-JAG-USAF and asking them the question directly. They may have something approved for dissemination that is more on point.

Congrats to any of you who got picked up by the AF in the June board!


Air Power,
PB

[J-Rod]

Thanks for the info . . . I had read that the Army LRP was only available to enlisted men, so if they're changing it to be for JAG's as well, that is interesting, still not sure it's worth 15mo. deployments though

Right now I think I'm between Navy and Air Force, just gotta narrow it down . . .

[iagolives]

Any word on law with the Coast Guard? Besides being a much smaller force and not under the DoD, how does it differ?

[Rotor]

Any word on law with the Coast Guard? Besides being a much smaller force and not under the DoD, how does it differ?

Dude, even as an English major it took me a long time to see Iago Lives rather than Iag Olives! Then you go and change your tar embracing the othograhphic confusion. What gives?

Don't know about the JAG program, but because it's DHS rather than DOD, there are law enforcement issues you'd probably get into that DOD just won't because of posse commitatus, which would be interesting.

Edit. Love iPhone 3.0. Now it's easy to post links!

--LinkRemoved-- (down towards the bottom for the direct commission JAG program)

[BHL]

Thanks for the info . . . I had read that the Army LRP was only available to enlisted men, so if they're changing it to be for JAG's as well, that is interesting, still not sure it's worth 15mo. deployments though

Right now I think I'm between Navy and Air Force, just gotta narrow it down . . .

An SJA told me that applying to multiple branches helps your chances because they're then fighting for you. Worry about narrowing it down after they accept you.

[iagolives]

Dude, even as an English major it took me a long time to see Iago Lives rather than Iag Olives! Then you go and change your tar embracing the othograhphic confusion. What gives?

Yeah, there was a discussion one night about how unfortunate my choice of names was so I gave in and changed myself from Michael Weston into an olive.

Maybe I don't belong in the armed forces--I surrender too easily.

[ArkansasFan]

Any word on law with the Coast Guard? Besides being a much smaller force and not under the DoD, how does it differ?

Dude, even as an English major it took me a long time to see Iago Lives rather than Iag Olives! Then you go and change your tar embracing the othograhphic confusion. What gives?

Don't know about the JAG program, but because it's DHS rather than DOD, there are law enforcement issues you'd probably get into that DOD just won't because of posse commitatus, which would be interesting.

Edit. Love iPhone 3.0. Now it's easy to post links!

--LinkRemoved-- (down towards the bottom for the direct commission JAG program)

You know that is rather appealing to me. Some of the USCG billets are places I have always wanted to go particularly the northern ones. I'd like to go to law school, but I always have that question "What would I do with a J.D.?" Being a 27 y/o law enforcement officer, interested in military service, and interested in taking courses that would be applicable to USCG service that sounds like a good fit for me. I also happen to have some environmental science background from undergrad. I think I might investigate this futher. Anyone know anything about it specificially? I'm reading that website as aI type this. Although I do lack LSAT scores I have ample time to prep and should I make at minimum of an average score I understand that I have a pretty solid chance of getting into one of the two schools I would go to - those here in Arkansas. Any details would be great.

[texaslawyer]

I hear being a JAG in the Coast Guard isn't a bad deal. They are much smaller and from what I've seen this makes them more close knit. They do go to sea more than the Navy and they do go overseas and they do go in harm's way. They had a much larger presence in Vietnam than most people are aware of. However, they don't promote very quicly and most officers retire at Lieutennant Commander, maybe Commamder but you can't pretty much forget about Captain or Rear Admiral. Also, it helps to have gone to the Coast Guard Academy. Although these observations are quite dated and things may have changed.

[ArkansasFan]

I hear being a JAG in the Coast Guard isn't a bad deal. They are much smaller and from what I've seen this makes them more close knit. They do go to sea more than the Navy and they do go overseas and they do go in harm's way. They had a much larger presence in Vietnam than most people are aware of. However, they don't promote very quicly and most officers retire at Lieutennant Commander, maybe Commamder but you can't pretty much forget about Captain or Rear Admiral. Also, it helps to have gone to the Coast Guard Academy. Although these observations are quite dated and things may have changed.

Well, obviously I'd have to go in under a direct commission. Having scrutinized their areas of legal expertise the realm of "operational law" is what appeals to me - environmental, intelligence, investigation, law enforcement, border protection, advice to command, etc. It's the kind of venue I'd like to put into practice as an attorney - heightened application of law and procedure somehow coupled with investigations and field work although I must say I don't know if I'd do that as a USCG JAG, or if I'd even care in three years. I can't be a federal officer because I am red-green color blind so there's no point in me examining the federal LE agencies further. I just left district court an hour ago, and I do not want to be a court room lawyer. I've actually never lost a case of my own so I have no ill feelings towards any attorney but that kind of law isn't my idea of fun or a career.

[Yointer]

I hear being a JAG in the Coast Guard isn't a bad deal. They are much smaller and from what I've seen this makes them more close knit. They do go to sea more than the Navy and they do go overseas and they do go in harm's way. They had a much larger presence in Vietnam than most people are aware of. However, they don't promote very quicly and most officers retire at Lieutennant Commander, maybe Commamder but you can't pretty much forget about Captain or Rear Admiral. Also, it helps to have gone to the Coast Guard Academy. Although these observations are quite dated and things may have changed.

Another unique thing about the Coast Guard relative to the four DOD services is that CG JAGS are considerably more likely to be asked to fill non-law billets. According to my source (who knows about such things), close to half of the billets available to CG JAGS are non-law billets. The figure is more like 10% in the Marines and effectively zero in the Navy, as Navy JAGs aren't line officers. If you're interested in a command billet, the Coast Guard is your best shot at getting one at some point in your career.

[ArkansasFan]

I hear being a JAG in the Coast Guard isn't a bad deal. They are much smaller and from what I've seen this makes them more close knit. They do go to sea more than the Navy and they do go overseas and they do go in harm's way. They had a much larger presence in Vietnam than most people are aware of. However, they don't promote very quicly and most officers retire at Lieutennant Commander, maybe Commamder but you can't pretty much forget about Captain or Rear Admiral. Also, it helps to have gone to the Coast Guard Academy. Although these observations are quite dated and things may have changed.

Another unique thing about the Coast Guard relative to the four DOD services is that CG JAGS are considerably more likely to be asked to fill non-law billets. According to my source (who knows about such things), close to half of the billets available to CG JAGS are non-law billets. The figure is more like 10% in the Marines and effectively zero in the Navy, as Navy JAGs aren't line officers. If you're interested in a command billet, the Coast Guard is your best shot at getting one at some point in your career.

That's very interesting. That appeals to me.

[texaslawyer]

ArkansasFan this sound like a good opportunity to me. I can tell you that Marine OCS is no joke. One must be commited to it down to their DNA or they won't make it. I was going to be a Marine pilot until I blew a knee and it's the toughest thing anyone can do, except for BUDS/SEAL training in the Navy. Those guys pay a huge price emotionally, 90% divorce rate, etc. One caveat I would impart unto prospective JAGS, military divorce rates are at over 80%. If you're married make sure it's solid or it will cease. JAGS may avoid this. But they will go into harm's way.

[E\/ERLAST]

ArkansasFan this sound like a good opportunity to me. I can tell you that Marine OCS is no joke. One must be commited to it down to their DNA or they won't make it. I was going to be a Marine pilot until I blew a knee and it's the toughest thing anyone can do, except for BUDS/SEAL training in the Navy. Those guys pay a huge price emotionally, 90% divorce rate, etc. One caveat I would impart unto prospective JAGS, military divorce rates are at over 80%. If you're married make sure it's solid or it will cease. JAGS may avoid this. But they will go into harm's way.

Army SF I think takes the cake behind SEALs. Q course, SEARS - breaking fingers, etc., ugh.

But yah I completely agree w/ it having to be in your DNA. If you have any doubts, they will surface during OCS and they will consume you.

[ArkansasFan]

ArkansasFan this sound like a good opportunity to me. I can tell you that Marine OCS is no joke. One must be commited to it down to their DNA or they won't make it. I was going to be a Marine pilot until I blew a knee and it's the toughest thing anyone can do, except for BUDS/SEAL training in the Navy. Those guys pay a huge price emotionally, 90% divorce rate, etc. One caveat I would impart unto prospective JAGS, military divorce rates are at over 80%. If you're married make sure it's solid or it will cease. JAGS may avoid this. But they will go into harm's way.

Army SF I think takes the cake behind SEALs. Q course, SEARS - breaking fingers, etc., ugh.

But yah I completely agree w/ it having to be in your DNA. If you have any doubts, they will surface during OCS and they will consume you.

Where's this coming from guys, lol? I'm not wanting to get into special operations, but I do see your point about deployment which is an acceptable risk. I'm also not married and am incredibly picky about that. Although I've never worried about being blown up, I have experienced shootings and attempts by others to stab me. Fortunately, none of those were successful, lol, and I only sit here today absent of turning around with lethal force thanks to the TASER X26! What no one probably knew though is I had the TASER in one hand and the Glock in the other so it wasn't any kind of heroic, sacraficial thing.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

[texaslawyer]

I can tell you in Marine OCS they make it tougher on aviation candidates than grunts.. Which I guess is appropriate because aviators catch hell when they're shot down captured. Win, lose or draw it's the toughest OCS anyone can go through. I can tell you the guys who you think will be big bad ass Marines usually aren't and the nerdy little wimps are some of the best Marines you will ever see. You never know. As a JAG you probably won't be on the front lines that much. Special ops people are a strange bunch. JAGS are different as well.

[ArkansasFan]

JAGS are different as well.

Well, they are lawyers. haha

[texaslawyer]

Arkansas fan, that's true. Which one is crazier ?

[ArkansasFan]

Hmmm. I don't know. Do you, as a lawyer, feel crazy yourself? lol

[texaslawyer]

I'm not there yet, but is it rational and sane to go to law school in your mid fifties ? Probably not, but if I don't I'll never forgive myself and I'll just be dipped in brussell sprouts if I'm going to allow that to happen ! I want to practice criminal law. Bring on the DUIs, druggies and the like. Also, I'd like to do some work for The Innonence Project. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal, but if someone is wrongfully imprisioned then I must help exonerate them.