Military Law Forum

[babyt8_99]

Thought I'd resurface as I await my board results for Army JAG. I won't really freak until about mid-January. Who is impatiently waiting with me?

[Negotiator]

Trying not to psych myself out before my interview.

LORs seem favorable enough: O-4 JAG and local judge, O-6 I did work for, non-profit I worked for a year, two opposing counsel.
Motivational statement felt a little awkward since it differs from the typical civilian letter of interest (ie, "I am awesome and can do awesome things for you"), but it should suffice.
Can pass the PRT today. Granted it's by the skin of my teeth, but I'm hitting 75.
All comes down to the interview. I've gotta think I have a leg up here - Wills/Estates, Landlord/Tenant, CrimDef, Consumer BK... all stuff I've done as opposed to classes I've taken. I've gotta have a fighting chance.

*sighs*

Can you tell the 2-5% acceptance rate has me rattled?

[babyt8_99]

Trying not to psych myself out before my interview.

LORs seem favorable enough: O-4 JAG and local judge, O-6 I did work for, non-profit I worked for a year, two opposing counsel.
Motivational statement felt a little awkward since it differs from the typical civilian letter of interest (ie, "I am awesome and can do awesome things for you"), but it should suffice.
Can pass the PRT today. Granted it's by the skin of my teeth, but I'm hitting 75.
All comes down to the interview. I've gotta think I have a leg up here - Wills/Estates, Landlord/Tenant, CrimDef, Consumer BK... all stuff I've done as opposed to classes I've taken. I've gotta have a fighting chance.

*sighs*

Can you tell the 2-5% acceptance rate has me rattled?

Even when you've done everything possible, you still get rattled. The interview is more about expressing that genuine desire to serve your country in that particular branch than anything! Good luck!

[kaesch]

Hi babyt! I'm waiting with you! According to my contacts at JARO we should hear from the board sometime during the first two weeks of January. Fingers crossed til then!

[babyt8_99]

Hi babyt! I'm waiting with you! According to my contacts at JARO we should hear from the board sometime during the first two weeks of January. Fingers crossed til then!

Glad I'm not alone. Last year the results came out around the 10th I think. Going to be a long winter break!!

[Texan09]

Sent in my app for the Army JAG 2L internship a few weeks ago. Now working on the AF OYCP app. Hopefully I have better luck than last year. Good luck to everyone waiting.

[babyt8_99]

Sent in my app for the Army JAG 2L internship a few weeks ago. Now working on the AF OYCP app. Hopefully I have better luck than last year. Good luck to everyone waiting.

I completely understand your mindset!! I haven't been successful in the internship applications which scares the $%^&* out of me for AD

[shock259]

I'm sure the AF would be lucky to have you guys, assuming they have room.

Anyway, I'm a 1L sitting on a dilemma that I'd love some input on. A Marine Officer Selection Officer (OSO) came to our school recently and inspired my interest in also applying to be a Marine JAG. I'm familiar with all of the other branch's apps, but the Marine application process is different. The OSO does a screening to make sure I'd be a good fit for the Marine Corps, and then I basically work with the OSO in preparing an application to send to the board. I compile all of my stuff, the OSO writes a letter on my behalf, telling the board why they should select me, and I submit my Marine PFT scores (see below for more on this). All of this gets sent to the board and they render a decision. So it's less of an interview with the OSO and more of a helping hand (just my impression so far).

If you get an acceptance from the board, your acceptance is conditional on you passing Officer Candidate School (OCS). OCS is a 10 week program for all Marine officers and seems to have a fail rate of about 1 out of 3. From everything I've heard and read, it can be a pretty grueling experience. And you are graded on everything. They offer it 3 times a year, and only once during the summer.

I think the Marines may be a good fit, and I want to give it a whirl, but I have a few concerns. These are probably OSO type questions, but nonetheless:

1) I've already started training for the Marine PFT. I don't know when the next board is, but I have to submit my scores by then. Marine PFT is 100 situps in 2 min, 20 pullups, and 3 miles in 18 minutes for a perfect score of 300. Any deviations cost points (for example, one less pullup costs you 5 points). The OSO told us that we need to be at least 285 to be competitive for a JAG spot. That's precious little wiggle room.

The situps and pullups will come with hard work over the coming month or two, but I am concerned about the running. I haven't run since high school. I'm starting SUPER slow, per a helpful website called Runner's World. You start with 60 seconds of jogging, 90 seconds of walking for 20 minutes to build up your feet/lower leg muscles, and work up to running 3 miles. It's an 8 week program. I'm also doing cross training on off days.

That said, do you think it's reasonable to be running 19 minute 3 miles in about 3 months when you start from scratch? I don't know when the next board meets, but I'm guessing it is around February. This seems like a tall order, but I'm otherwise in great shape, though, and I tend to get in shape easily. I'm about 5'11, 155.

2) If I get my PFT up and get accepted by the board, I am then expected to do the next OCS, which is in the summer. 10 weeks in the summer would mean that I couldn't get a 1L summer internship. This isn't bad per say because I have a job offer on the table. But it worries me if something happens and I fail OCS. Many of the 1/3rds that fail OCS do so because of injuries, sickness, etc. Some quit, but many are forced to quit for things that are beyond their control. I know I won't quit if I have any choice in the matter, but if I'm forced to, I'm worried that 1) my Marine JAG offer will get rejected and 2) I will have wasted my 1L summer and 3) the other branches won't look kindly on me failing OCS.

In other words, it seems like it could be dangerous to your legal career to do OCS during your 1L summer.

Any thoughts or musings for someone in my position? Or should I stop fretting and just wait to hear from my OSO?

Also: http://www.marineocs.com/portal/index.php is fantastic.

Thanks as always!

[Esquire]

Granted, I'm not a fantastic runner, but I've had about 6 months to try and get in shape for the Army. 3 miles in 18 minutes is a blistering pace, IMO. I don't know if you could hit that in 3 months after not running for years. 19 minutes is of course definitely more doable but that's still pretty quick.

Just keep working hard and see where the chips fall. Buy good running shoes. Go to a runner specialty store and get fitted for the proper pair of shoes. That made a difference to me.

[babyt8_99]

Granted, I'm not a fantastic runner, but I've had about 6 months to try and get in shape for the Army. 3 miles in 18 minutes is a blistering pace, IMO. I don't know if you could hit that in 3 months after not running for years. 19 minutes is of course definitely more doable but that's still pretty quick.

Just keep working hard and see where the chips fall. Buy good running shoes. Go to a runner specialty store and get fitted for the proper pair of shoes. That made a difference to me.

As a female (and an older one at that), I was able to go from a walking pace of 2 miles in 30 minutes to running said 2 miles in 18mins. I also went from 0 pushups to 15 since June! It can be done. I would highly recommend one of the Couch to 5K programs.

[Negotiator]

Well, if nothing else, I can come in saying I can bag 76 on the PRT.

"So I got that going for me, which is nice."

[shock259]

Thanks for the advice guys. So far, so good.

[shock259]

.

[Groundie]

My AF ROTC detachment didn't even require me to come in. They saw my resume and sent a signed letter saying they'd take me. I think the reason you may need to have the letter before then is because the interviewing officer in the AF is the one who actually submits the packages. I could be wrong; Capt. Bateman may know more.

[shock259]

.

[Patrick Bateman]

Shock:

As a DAPer, I cannot comment on the status quo for the ROTC process. There is indeed a waiver process for prior drug use but I am only familiar with that as a JAX run process (I believe waiver authority is SECAF). There may be some separate AFROTC requirement but I would definitely call over to JAX to make sure the package is being processed correctly. My experience with MEPS made it very clear to me that JAG officer accessions involves a process distinct (and thus not at all understood) from other officer accessions.

Best of luck to you.

[shock259]

Called JAX. They said that the review board and JAX itself will make a determination. Therefore, it is unnecessary for the ROTC branch to do the same. In other words, just a miscommunication. The guy at JAX said someone called just a few minutes before about the same issue, so it appears to be fairly common.

[thementor31337]

I'm sure the AF would be lucky to have you guys, assuming they have room.

Anyway, I'm a 1L sitting on a dilemma that I'd love some input on. A Marine Officer Selection Officer (OSO) came to our school recently and inspired my interest in also applying to be a Marine JAG. I'm familiar with all of the other branch's apps, but the Marine application process is different. The OSO does a screening to make sure I'd be a good fit for the Marine Corps, and then I basically work with the OSO in preparing an application to send to the board. I compile all of my stuff, the OSO writes a letter on my behalf, telling the board why they should select me, and I submit my Marine PFT scores (see below for more on this). All of this gets sent to the board and they render a decision. So it's less of an interview with the OSO and more of a helping hand (just my impression so far).

If you get an acceptance from the board, your acceptance is conditional on you passing Officer Candidate School (OCS). OCS is a 10 week program for all Marine officers and seems to have a fail rate of about 1 out of 3. From everything I've heard and read, it can be a pretty grueling experience. And you are graded on everything. They offer it 3 times a year, and only once during the summer.

I think the Marines may be a good fit, and I want to give it a whirl, but I have a few concerns. These are probably OSO type questions, but nonetheless:

1) I've already started training for the Marine PFT. I don't know when the next board is, but I have to submit my scores by then. Marine PFT is 100 situps in 2 min, 20 pullups, and 3 miles in 18 minutes for a perfect score of 300. Any deviations cost points (for example, one less pullup costs you 5 points). The OSO told us that we need to be at least 285 to be competitive for a JAG spot. That's precious little wiggle room.

The situps and pullups will come with hard work over the coming month or two, but I am concerned about the running. I haven't run since high school. I'm starting SUPER slow, per a helpful website called Runner's World. You start with 60 seconds of jogging, 90 seconds of walking for 20 minutes to build up your feet/lower leg muscles, and work up to running 3 miles. It's an 8 week program. I'm also doing cross training on off days.

That said, do you think it's reasonable to be running 19 minute 3 miles in about 3 months when you start from scratch? I don't know when the next board meets, but I'm guessing it is around February. This seems like a tall order, but I'm otherwise in great shape, though, and I tend to get in shape easily. I'm about 5'11, 155.

2) If I get my PFT up and get accepted by the board, I am then expected to do the next OCS, which is in the summer. 10 weeks in the summer would mean that I couldn't get a 1L summer internship. This isn't bad per say because I have a job offer on the table. But it worries me if something happens and I fail OCS. Many of the 1/3rds that fail OCS do so because of injuries, sickness, etc. Some quit, but many are forced to quit for things that are beyond their control. I know I won't quit if I have any choice in the matter, but if I'm forced to, I'm worried that 1) my Marine JAG offer will get rejected and 2) I will have wasted my 1L summer and 3) the other branches won't look kindly on me failing OCS.

In other words, it seems like it could be dangerous to your legal career to do OCS during your 1L summer.

Any thoughts or musings for someone in my position? Or should I stop fretting and just wait to hear from my OSO?

Also: http://www.marineocs.com/portal/index.php is fantastic.

Thanks as always!

Don't stress about OCS/TBS, it's not as bad as you think. I was fortunate enough to work at TBS for the last 4+ years and have have seen many a law contract come through. OCS is very physical, having a high 1st class PFT score will benefit you greatly. But you're a young guy, and meeting the physical aspects of OCS shouldn't be a problem for you. They start slow in boot camp, it's not like on day two you'll be running three miles at a timed pace. You'll be surprised how much your fitness improves just in the two months you are there. Also, if you decide to take the summer session of OCS, you will be there with about 2,000 other candidates plus those that are going to the 6 week increment course. If you can get a first class PFT, you won't fail OCS. If you do happen to get hurt while in training, generally you will get Line of Duty benefits and continue to receive pay (at a reduced rate) until you are better, and then you can repeat training. Or if you decide you don't want to do it and it's not for you, you can quit at any time with no obligation to the USMC.

Is your OSO having you go PLC law to get the service credit while in school or OCC law? If you do PLC, generally you will go through PLC juniors one summer and then PLC seniors the next summer, both are 6 weeks in length. If you go the OCC route, you will go for the May-Aug cycle and will commission upon completion and then report directly to TBS for 6 months of field training. If you can get in, PLC is the way to go, you'll get promoted with your peers, and could even be a Captain by the time you complete OCS. However, keep in mind that if you do go JAG in the Marine Corps, you might not be performing in that billet at every duty station. Even at TBS, our JAG was selected to be a company commander of a training company, which is pretty cool in my opinion, because most Marines that have desk jobs jump at the chance to do something different and field oriented. Plus, once you get to Maj-Lt.Col-Col you aren't really your MOS anymore, your in commander/XO billets, so you might only actually be lawyering for the first 10-15 yrs of your career, if you decide to stay in that long.

I'm actually transitioning out of the USMC now and I ran the TBS administration shop for the last several years, so I have quite a bit of knowledge about Lt life in the beginning. If you have any other questions, feel free to PM me.

[tothePAIN]

I'm a 1L in the PLC-Law program. Commissioned last summer.

Message me if you have any questions but I don't check this every day, just a heads up.

Dropping to 19 minutes in two months is doable but not likely. If you're good on the pullups and crunches, a 20:30 is sufficient to be competitive. By May however, you could definitely be down to 19. I was initially selected with a 270ish PFT so 285 is not a hard and fast number. The board will take into account where you will be when you hit OCS vs. where you are currently. Other branches will not look down on you failing OCS if you fail out for medical reasons - it can happen to everyone. They may look down if you quit.

@mentor - The PLC-Law program, as opposed to PLC-Juniors, goes with the PLC-Combined for 10 weeks at OCS but then returns to school following the summer.

[CarolLaughlin33]

Definitely some post-service advantages, too: --LinkRemoved--

[Esquire]

Found out my assignment. Germany

[kaesch]

Found out my assignment. Germany

Esquire - Which JAOBC are you in? How did you manage Germany?!? I know that would be my number one choice. Congrats!

Side question, which board did you apply to and how long did it take for you to hear the results and get assigned to JAOBC and your assignment?

Thank you.

[Esquire]

Found out my assignment. Germany

Esquire - Which JAOBC are you in? How did you manage Germany?!? I know that would be my number one choice. Congrats!

Side question, which board did you apply to and how long did it take for you to hear the results and get assigned to JAOBC and your assignment?

Thank you.

Search my posts. I've done my best to document the timeline since when I started, I had nothing.

Applied FY2010 in November. Heard in January 2011. Received JAOBC and post assignment November 2011. Expect to hear basically nothing for a long while and then hear everything all at once.

[2xHarvard]

Found out my assignment. Germany

Congratulations!

If you're willing to share - Was the call simply to inform you of your assignment or was there further discussion? Mine is scheduled for next week and I'd like to be prepared.

[shock259]

Germany is awesome!

Good news on my saga, just found out the Marine board isn't until April. So excited. This means I'll have more than enough time to get an epic PFT score. 300 here I come!