Military Law Forum

[WhatAboutBob]

So what are the dress codes for the different summer internships (if they differ)?

And for anyone doing a summer internship out of town, have you nailed down where you're staying yet?

Not terribly formal for Army. For men, khakis and button down shirts were the norm. Polos if it was particularly hot. Ties if we were making a field trip to court.

[mrh769]

Haha, not sure why you're so excited - we're all just going to get dinged.

Think positive thoughts!

YES!!! Positive thoughts! But, if you want to believe that you are getting dinged, then go for it.

[Rocktober2007]

Haha, not sure why you're so excited - we're all just going to get dinged.

Think positive thoughts!

YES!!! Positive thoughts! But, if you want to believe that you are getting dinged, then go for it.

Ok, I'll join in on the positive thoughts. What would we be without wishful thinking?

[Patrick Bateman]

Haha, not sure why you're so excited - we're all just going to get dinged.

Think positive thoughts!

YES!!! Positive thoughts! But, if you want to believe that you are getting dinged, then go for it.

Ok, I'll join in on the positive thoughts. What would we be without wishful thinking?

While not looking to rein in your positive thoughts or mutual affirmation, these sorts of posts play hell on those of us that are subscribed to this thread and get an email with each reply.

And yes, I note the irony that writing this message will generate the very email I am complaining about.

[nomargfan5]

Howell,

I did the Air Force Summer Internship in D.C this past summer. We were required to wear a suit and tie to work everyday.

[mrh769]

Navy JAG results are posted!

[Rocktober2007]

Thanks for the heads up.

Another ding here. Anyone get it?

[Rocktober2007]

RE: Navy JAG, from their FAQ:

"To which program should I apply? If you are either (1) a 2L or 3L, (2) a part-time law student within 2 years of graduation, or (3) a recent law school graduate who has not yet had the opportunity to take the first available bar exam, then you would apply to the Student Program (SP). If you are a licensed attorney, then you would apply to the Direct Appointment Program (DA)."

and

"What if I have graduated from law school but not passed a bar? If you have graduated but have not yet had an opportunity to take the first available bar, you would apply to the Student Program. If a bar exam has been offered and you have not taken it for whatever reason, or you did not pass the bar exam, then you are not eligible for any of our programs. You may become eligible to apply to the Direct Appointment Program after taking and passing a bar exam."

If I'm a graduating 3L, taking the bar in July, but won't have results back by the deadline, can I apply for the Student Program this fall?

[cake]

Thanks for the heads up.

Another ding here. Anyone get it?

I got a ding. Guess this fall will be round 3.

[hasmith]

RE: Navy JAG, from their FAQ:

"To which program should I apply? If you are either (1) a 2L or 3L, (2) a part-time law student within 2 years of graduation, or (3) a recent law school graduate who has not yet had the opportunity to take the first available bar exam, then you would apply to the Student Program (SP). If you are a licensed attorney, then you would apply to the Direct Appointment Program (DA)."

and

"What if I have graduated from law school but not passed a bar? If you have graduated but have not yet had an opportunity to take the first available bar, you would apply to the Student Program. If a bar exam has been offered and you have not taken it for whatever reason, or you did not pass the bar exam, then you are not eligible for any of our programs. You may become eligible to apply to the Direct Appointment Program after taking and passing a bar exam."

If I'm a graduating 3L, taking the bar in July, but won't have results back by the deadline, can I apply for the Student Program this fall?

In your case, unfortunately, I don't think you could apply to either program. You would have taken the bar, and technically speaking would not have passed it yet (you would, presumably, not have failed either). I think you would have to apply to the Direct Appointment program, once you pass.

[Rocky Estoppel]

Thanks for the heads up.

Another ding here. Anyone get it?

I got a ding. Guess this fall will be round 3.

Me too.

[Rocktober2007]

What's the best plan of action for a graduating 3L who has been dinged from Army and Navy twice? I plan to re-apply for Army in the fall, but is there anything else I could be/should be doing? I'm looking for civilian jobs, but haven't had any luck. (However, most of the jobs I'm interested in, DA's offices in California, don't allow you to apply until you've taken or passed the bar).

I also have an application in with Army Reserve JAG. It's supposed to be much less competitive. I'd be extremely happy if I could find a civilian job and be an Army reservist on the side. I also understand that there are opportunities to mobilize as a reservist, both within CONUS and to Iraq/Afghanistan.

Anyone else out there in the same situation? What are you planning to do?

[hasmith]

For the latest Navy JAG board: Over 575 applicants and 41 were professionally recommended, about a 7% selection rate. Not sure what the stats were for the previous board.

[LessThanLiz]

I'm about to finish up my 1L year, and have learned that trial advocacy doesn't appeal to me much, at least not insofar as I'd love doing it day in and day out. I've settled on concentrating on estate planning. Having lurked in this thread since before being accepted into law school, I realize I'm asking a question to which I probably already know the answer, but humor me: this is likely something that would (a) knock me down a notch, if not entirely, in terms of competition, and; (b) even if I were to be accepted and ultimately receive a commission, I'd find a considerable portion of the work unappealing, yes? Are there no other paths besides your jack-of-all-trades lawyer?

Specifically, I was thinking Navy. It's a pity, because otherwise I think I would do well in the military, but I'd rather not put time and other resources into the application process and, potentially, that career path if it's not optimal for me or the Navy.

[shepdawg]

What's the best plan of action for a graduating 3L who has been dinged from Army and Navy twice? I plan to re-apply for Army in the fall, but is there anything else I could be/should be doing? I'm looking for civilian jobs, but haven't had any luck. (However, most of the jobs I'm interested in, DA's offices in California, don't allow you to apply until you've taken or passed the bar).

I also have an application in with Army Reserve JAG. It's supposed to be much less competitive. I'd be extremely happy if I could find a civilian job and be an Army reservist on the side. I also understand that there are opportunities to mobilize as a reservist, both within CONUS and to Iraq/Afghanistan.

Anyone else out there in the same situation? What are you planning to do?

It seems like if you're having trouble getting a civilian job, you're going to have 2x more trouble getting a JAG job. All the services, besides the Marines right now, are way more selective than private employers. On my end I was able to get many paid private offers for my 1L internship in the private sector, but only made it to the alternates list for the Army 1L internship.

You should apply for the Marines. They're taking some people from my school who are at the bottom of the curve and probably won't even get an unpaid job after graduation.

[Patrick Bateman]

What's the best plan of action for a graduating 3L who has been dinged from Army and Navy twice? I plan to re-apply for Army in the fall, but is there anything else I could be/should be doing? I'm looking for civilian jobs, but haven't had any luck. (However, most of the jobs I'm interested in, DA's offices in California, don't allow you to apply until you've taken or passed the bar).

I also have an application in with Army Reserve JAG. It's supposed to be much less competitive. I'd be extremely happy if I could find a civilian job and be an Army reservist on the side. I also understand that there are opportunities to mobilize as a reservist, both within CONUS and to Iraq/Afghanistan.

Anyone else out there in the same situation? What are you planning to do?

It seems like if you're having trouble getting a civilian job, you're going to have 2x more trouble getting a JAG job. All the services, besides the Marines right now, are way more selective than private employers. On my end I was able to get many paid private offers for my 1L internship in the private sector, but only made it to the alternates list for the Army 1L internship.

You should apply for the Marines. They're taking some people from my school who are at the bottom of the curve and probably won't even get an unpaid job after graduation.

Having spent my deployment with a number of Marine officers, to include JAGs, I think your dismissal of USMC JAG is ill founded and disrespectful. Just as the JAG Corps at large has significantly different hiring patterns/requirements/preferences when compared to traditional BigLaw, USMC JAG, as a subset, is looking for a very specific sort of person. As any JAG can tell you, grades are not everything when it comes to selection. We are perhaps the only institution that gives any true attention to the full person concept. Marines are not normal - that is something I mean in the most positive possible sense. Their training (OCS, TBS) and mission are not something your average (or even exceptional) law student can handle. As a result, their selection process has to be more exact than even USAF/USN/USA.

[Rocktober2007]

What's the best plan of action for a graduating 3L who has been dinged from Army and Navy twice? I plan to re-apply for Army in the fall, but is there anything else I could be/should be doing? I'm looking for civilian jobs, but haven't had any luck. (However, most of the jobs I'm interested in, DA's offices in California, don't allow you to apply until you've taken or passed the bar).

I also have an application in with Army Reserve JAG. It's supposed to be much less competitive. I'd be extremely happy if I could find a civilian job and be an Army reservist on the side. I also understand that there are opportunities to mobilize as a reservist, both within CONUS and to Iraq/Afghanistan.

Anyone else out there in the same situation? What are you planning to do?

It seems like if you're having trouble getting a civilian job, you're going to have 2x more trouble getting a JAG job. All the services, besides the Marines right now, are way more selective than private employers. On my end I was able to get many paid private offers for my 1L internship in the private sector, but only made it to the alternates list for the Army 1L internship.

You should apply for the Marines. They're taking some people from my school who are at the bottom of the curve and probably won't even get an unpaid job after graduation.

The reason I've had such a hard time getting a civilian job is that I'm focusing on government jobs in California and hiring has dropped off precipitously in this economy. Additionally, the vast majority of hiring is done post bar. So I've only been able to apply to a small number of positions. I have always been JAG/government minded and did not do my school's OCI for firm jobs.

I also don't think that's a fair assessment of the Marines. I have several friends who have recently gone through OCS and they are all very high speed people.

The reason I haven't applied to the Marines is the ~30% fail rate at OCS. I'm afraid of getting injured or not getting through for whatever reason, then being stuck jobless with loan payments to make. Am I just being overly risk averse or is this something I should take more seriously?

[Esquire]

It seems like if you're having trouble getting a civilian job, you're going to have 2x more trouble getting a JAG job. All the services, besides the Marines right now, are way more selective than private employers. On my end I was able to get many paid private offers for my 1L internship in the private sector, but only made it to the alternates list for the Army 1L internship.

You should apply for the Marines. They're taking some people from my school who are at the bottom of the curve and probably won't even get an unpaid job after graduation.

This is nonsense and disrespectful to USMC JAGs. The Marines use a different measure when selecting JAGs and not many law students could cut it. In fact, I'd argue it's more selective than the other branches. Grades aren't the only thing that matters when you're talking about the JAG Corps, any branch.

[Rocktober2007]

Anyone else apply for the April 15th Army Reserve board? I submitted my application over a month ago, but I'm still Under Completeness Review. It never took this long for my active duty applications' statuses to change to Pending Board Decision.

[upnorthguy]

Anyone else apply for the April 15th Army Reserve board? I submitted my application over a month ago, but I'm still Under Completeness Review. It never took this long for my active duty applications' statuses to change to Pending Board Decision.

I just looked any mine now says "Needs Corrections." Haven't heard any details yet.

Additional info:
I looked at the application instructions and found this guidance:

"If corrections are required, you will receive an email. Your application may remain at this status even after the application deadline has passed, as it takes time to review each application."

[Rocktober2007]

Anyone else apply for the April 15th Army Reserve board? I submitted my application over a month ago, but I'm still Under Completeness Review. It never took this long for my active duty applications' statuses to change to Pending Board Decision.

I just looked any mine now says "Needs Corrections." Haven't heard any details yet.

Additional info:
I looked at the application instructions and found this guidance:

"If corrections are required, you will receive an email. Your application may remain at this status even after the application deadline has passed, as it takes time to review each application."

Ah, good to know that they work out any issues with you. Thanks for the update.

[Rocktober2007]

Update from JARO on the reserve board: "RESULTS FROM THE APRIL 2011 RESERVE COMPONENT SELECTION BOARD WILL BE POSTED NO LATER THAN THE SECOND WEEK OF JUNE."

Nice. I thought it was going to be mid-July.

[Journeybound]

Hi. I'm beginning a paid AF JAG internship for my 2L summer next month, at Travis. I'm extremely excited about the opportunity. I stumbled into this thread, and I was hoping that you guys might help me out with some questions.

First, how competitive will it be for me to get an offer post-graduation with this internship? Does this give me a slight advantage? It looks like the acceptance rates are EXTREMELY low and competitive for commissions. I did 2 years of AFROTC in college, but I dropped out due to family emergency/marriage/desire to go to law school. I'm now at a T10, I love trial advocacy, and I'm interested in commissioning.

Also, what type of work is given to interns with the AF? Will I get any trial experience? Or will I be writing mostly memos....?

And lastly, what is the dress code like? Someone above said that in DC they had to wear a suit, is this standard at most basis for AF? I have a feeling that it will be strange not wearing a uniform when everyone else has one on.

Thanks! I look forward to hanging out in this thread with you all.

[Patrick Bateman]

Hi. I'm beginning a paid AF JAG internship for my 2L summer next month, at Travis. I'm extremely excited about the opportunity. I stumbled into this thread, and I was hoping that you guys might help me out with some questions.

First, how competitive will it be for me to get an offer post-graduation with this internship? Does this give me a slight advantage? It looks like the acceptance rates are EXTREMELY low and competitive for commissions. I did 2 years of AFROTC in college, but I dropped out due to family emergency/marriage/desire to go to law school. I'm now at a T10, I love trial advocacy, and I'm interested in commissioning.

Also, what type of work is given to interns with the AF? Will I get any trial experience? Or will I be writing mostly memos....?

And lastly, what is the dress code like? Someone above said that in DC they had to wear a suit, is this standard at most basis for AF? I have a feeling that it will be strange not wearing a uniform when everyone else has one on.

Thanks! I look forward to hanging out in this thread with you all.

Congrats on the internship.

Being an intern puts you in the best possible position to get picked up for Direct Appointment. You'll have ten weeks to impress the JAGs and office leadership that you have the ability to cut it as an officer. Most applicants have a mere hour in the SJA interview to do this. Acceptance rates are still a total shit show and I would get yourself in the mind to be ready for a fight if this is something you really want. A good summer will set you up nicely, though there are still a number of other variables in play.

While we are in an appalling amount of pages for this thread, early on I think I had a few posts talking about how each JAG experience is unique based on the base he/she is stationed. While JAG work is technically universal, legal assistance is a pain to do everywhere, courts-martial are the same everywhere, the base legal office always takes on the flavor of the Wing they support. There will always be an emphasis on a particular thing reflecting the character of the mission which you support. A wing under Air Combat Command or Air Mobility Command is very different than a base under Material or Space Command. I interned at a Material Command base and did a huge amount of civil law projects simply because that is what the bulk of the work for everyone was. My interns at my present Air Combat Command base get a ton of military justice opportunities because we have plenty to go around. So, you'll have to wait and see - generally you'll be doing what the O-3 JAGs are doing.

Your dress code will turn mostly on the SJA and if you are at a base (versus a HQ Directorate or other specialized branch in DC). I recommend suit for your first day until you can figure out the lay of the land. I have had interns rock suits everyday and others come in polos. I personally am of the school that good clothes open all doors. The military is obsessed with personal appearance and if you come well (and conservatively) dressed, that will likely reflect well on you. You will probably have a handful of civilians in your office and no question there will be civilians (DOD and contractors) working on your base. While most people will be in uniform, it is not like you will be a sore thumb in civvies.

[Journeybound]

Thanks! I'm extremely excited to get started this summer.