Military Law Forum

[mrh769]

The main differences focus on the practice areas. The Navy's civilian side practices the civilian areas of law (Environmental, Labor, Medical, etc.) while this is done by both Air Force civilians and military officers. Both practice criminal and operational law. Other than promotion differences (Navy starts as O-2 and are promoted to O-3 a year after their first day at Basic Lawyer Course, Air Force promotes to O-3 after 6 months) the other big difference is the Student Loan Repayment Program. Air Force has it and Navy does not. Navy also deploys at sea and the Middle East while the Air Force is mainly over in the Middle East. Best thing to do is to call the Navy's and Air Force's recruiters to have them explain the differences.

Good luck.

Awesome!!! Thanks so much!

[Rocktober2007]

Bombs away on the Army board. I'm hoping for results closer to 4 weeks, rather than 8. This is my first time applying for Direct Appointment, are results posted online first, the same way they were for the internships?

Good luck! Last year results came out on Friday, April 1st (lol?), so I'm hoping for Friday, April 2nd this year. And yeah, they're posted online on the JARO site first. They seem to announce on the site a few days before when they're going to post results.

[MarMal]

Second time around for me with my Active Duty Army JAG application. Hoping for good results! Thanks for all the information and good luck to all of us!

[msmossie]

I just submitted my first active duty application for Army JAG. It would be great to hear back on April 2nd, but I assume that we are going to have to wait until May. Ugh. Just going to focus on classes to not think about it. Of course soon we will all start obsessively checking the JAG website for THE list. Let the waiting begin. Good luck to everyone who applied!

[joemoviebuff]

I'm headed to UVA next year, and I noticed that they offer a bunch of classes taught through the Army JAG school next door. ("War Crimes," "Analysis of the Military Criminal Legal System," and "Estate Planning, Will Drafting, and Taxation," for some examples) Obviously my plate will be full with other stuff 1L, but the other years I'd be free to take some of these classes.

A couple questions:

1) How large would any benefit be to walk into an SJA interview with some of these courses on a transcript? Any? A lot? None? Or is it more of a benefit in the sense you get to know the professors that would be teaching these courses and get maybe a letter of recommendation from them? I imagine since not everyone conveniently has a JAG school next to their law school, it would be a good way to make an application stand out.

2) A dumber question perhaps, but for some of the courses that aren't explicitly about military things, e.g. the "Estate Planning, Will Drafting, and Taxation" one listed above, does this mean that it would be specifically geared towards military personnel? They wouldn't just teach a general law course at the JAG school, would they? (Hope that makes sense...)

[hasmith]

--LinkRemoved--

FY12 Navy LEP selection board results. Pretty small class, only 4 officers selected usually it is closer to 7. All Surface Warfare Officers.

[mrh769]

Does anyone know if you can upload a different picture after already submitting your application for Navy JAGC?

[Rocktober2007]

Does anyone know if you can upload a different picture after already submitting your application for Navy JAGC?

You can continue to upload documents up until the deadline. It's separate from submitting the application.

[hasmith]

Yes you can. If you log into your application (from the jag site) there is a section called "Uploaded Documents" Click on this section and it will populate with all the docs that you have uploaded. You will have the option to delete the current photo and add a new one.

[mrh769]

Thanks so much, Jess8328 & Hasmith!

[mrh769]

OK, I have another question. If you have prior military experience (enlisted), does that count toward your pay for JAGC?

[hasmith]

OK, I have another question. If you have prior military experience (enlisted), does that count toward your pay for JAGC?

I can only speak for the Navy. Prior enlisted experience will count for pay purposes. You will still come in at the same rank. Let's say you have 4 years of enlisted time, then you would be paid as an O2 over 4.

[Drew82abndiv]

Yes...enlisted time counts. Go look at the pay tables under O-2E. You definitely get a bump.

Drew

[Rotor]

OK, I have another question. If you have prior military experience (enlisted), does that count toward your pay for JAGC?

I can only speak for the Navy. Prior enlisted experience will count for pay purposes. You will still come in at the same rank. Let's say you have 4 years of enlisted time, then you would be paid as an O2 over 4.

--LinkRemoved--

This table doesn't use the "O-2E" convention that Drew mentioned, but rather has the rows broken out and footnoted. While the E notation goes away for O-4 and above, the longevity pay difference can be pretty nice bump.

[mrh769]

Thanks!

[FalafelWaffle]

Out of curiosity, anyone have some knowledge on USMC PLC? I keep reading that USMC JAG isn't easy, are you guys saying that it's not easy training or that it's really selective?

I'm a college sophomore that's aiming for low T1/T2 schools in the South (haven't taken the LSAT yet, that's the kicker) and I'd love to be a Marine Officer regardless of being a JAG. I've considered doing PLC Air before but I might as well try for PLC Law and submit my packet for OCS Air if Law didn't work out.

Is it selective? I haven't been able to find any data regarding GPAs or LSATs they require. I'm a fitness/military/gun nut so have no worries about me getting a really nice score on the PFT and kicking ass in the rifle work and I'll be as gung ho as Infantry.

And do you think that a stint as a JAG would help with portability of your degree? If I were to hypothetically go to a T3 like Stetson, I'd love to work in the Daytona/Tampa/North Florida area, but could I move if I had to?

And I'd like to echo above poster's question about ground training for USMC. I know that almost all of the Marine enlisted have to constantly maintain their infantry readiness (Rifleman first, your job second), but I've never heard about that for the officers.

The Marines have the saying "every Marine is a rifleman" (or something like that) for a reason. You go through the same basic training as every other Marine officer. And unlike the other services, there's no guarantee that you'll work as a JAG-the Marines can just as easily assign you to a nonlegal position. Look into the terms of the enlistment before you jump in.

[BruceWayne]

So it seems that the likelihood of having a tour on a ship in your initial 4 years with Navy JAG is low. What is the probability that you will be deployed overseas in your first 4 years as a navy JAG?

[BruceWayne]

No JAGS on here any more?

[Esquire]

I don't know if there are any Navy JAGs on TLS. Try here: http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?threa ... 401fc3cbd2

I'd also like to note this post, seeing as it's related to a previous discussion on here:

Exit options are fairly nebulous. I know there's a career fair every year, and some people have made valuable contacts from it.

I don't know anyone personally who has gotten out, so I don't have much first hand knowledge. But biglaw, obviously, is foreclosed to 99.9% of us. If you stay in 10 years, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just stay in the next 10 for retirement. The more people I talk to, the more I'm told that every tour beyond your first one in JAG depletes your marketability (even in the public sector). The things you do get more and more removed from the practice of law.

Of course, that's just me shooting from the hip, and you'll get a better feel for that as you come up to the end of your first tour.

[blink]

Does anyone know how long the 1L JAG internship lasts? Moreover, is the Army the only one that has a paid internship?

http://www.goarmy.com/jag/summer_intern_program.jsp

Army: Paid 1L/2L Internship.
USAF: Paid 2L Internship.
USN: All unpaid.
USMC: Who knows. I assume they punch you in the stomach as you do pull-ups for a 10 week period.

LOLing hard in class

[detrmnd88]

With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??

[BruceWayne]

With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??

How low are they? May I ask why USAF is your first choice?

[unc0mm0n1]

With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??

How low are they? May I ask why USAF is your first choice?

I'm not going back in the military but I was a legal administrator with the Army and I'd go AF over Army any day. No 15 month deployments, Basically no legal assistance or best of all limited tax center. Plus the living conditions are better for the Air Force (if you get on post housing or are deployed).

[SocalPizza]

With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??

I have a friend who got into the 2L internship and had to ask himself the same question. Gone are the days when most of the interns are accepted via DAP. He decided to roll the dice and do the internship rather than lock something up with a firm and keep applying to DAP. 12 accepted out of 300 on the last board. Not great odds.

[unc0mm0n1]

With USAF JAG DAP acceptance rates as low as they are, how much do you all think a 2L AF Summer Internship will help with acceptance??

I have a friend who got into the 2L internship and had to ask himself the same question. Gone are the days when most of the interns are accepted via DAP. He decided to roll the dice and do the internship rather than lock something up with a firm and keep applying to DAP. 12 accepted out of 300 on the last board. Not great odds.

It must be much better odds for the Army. We had some terrible lawyers and all the tier 4 schools were represented, yes even Cooley. Clearly we had some good ones as well but some of our guys I think it was the last chance for them to do legal work.