Military Law Forum

[eminem]

Not to hijack the thread, but this seemed the best place for it. Any other 2010 Army FLEP selectees lurking around?

[leftwich]

I'm an alternate.

[Esquire]

FLEP selectees, what's important to getting selected? Can you talk about what you think the Army is looking for and how you qualified? Very curious.

Man, the Active Duty wait is killing me. Here's hoping to hearing next week. What day of the week are AD selections usually released? Or is there no discernable pattern? I'm sure we could figure it out from this thread's timeline.

Happy new year.

[eminem]

Although the authority of my answer is limited to my experience, I think that what the Army looks for in FLEP candidates is not very different from What Law Schools Look For in the admissions process, except all your 'softs' are military - assignments you've had, training you've attended, deployments. LSAT and GPA are obviously a factor, but since the Army plans for most FLEPs to attend state schools, the averages are not high by TLS standards.

The board uses a "whole person" concept. All of your annual evaluation reports are included in the file and I sent letters of recommendation from my entire chain of command from my direct supervisor up to the division commander. There is an SJA interview which seemed to focus on personal qualities and knowledge of what the JAG Corps does - I believe the SJA interview was extremely important, but I have no way to prove it.

Bottom line, they can recruit as many phenomenal lawyers as they need through direct commission and train them to become officers. FLEP seemed to be more concerned with identifying officers with a proven record of success and some aptitude for legal education.

[Rocktober2007]

FLEP selectees, what's important to getting selected? Can you talk about what you think the Army is looking for and how you qualified? Very curious.

Man, the Active Duty wait is killing me. Here's hoping to hearing next week. What day of the week are AD selections usually released? Or is there no discernable pattern? I'm sure we could figure it out from this thread's timeline.

Happy new year.

According to http://armystrongstories.com/blogger/be ... tulations/ they were released around the 5th in 2009.

[Esquire]

And according to http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p2389521 it seems like last year's fall selections came out on a Friday, the 8th. Jan 5, 2009 is a Monday.

I'm going to guess we'll hear next Friday. If not, the following Monday.

[Rocktober2007]

And according to http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p2389521 it seems like last year's fall selections came out on a Friday, the 8th. Jan 5, 2009 is a Monday.

I'm going to guess we'll hear next Friday. If not, the following Monday.

Good find. I'm still probably going to reload the JARO site all this week though

[Baylan]

I have my AF GLP interview on Friday, Jan. 7th. I've talked with a friend of mine who is active duty (though he just commissioned back in May and reported in August) about what kind of type I might expect to get asked, as I prepare for my interview...

Any of you who have interviewed care to share any of the questions you have been asked, or anything I should think about in preparation for my interview?

The obvious things - Why Air Force, Workout Regimen, What are your thoughts on deployments, are things I've already spent some time thinking about how I'd like to answer, but I'm also curious what curve balls any of you might expect.

[SocalPizza]

Those are all the basics. Most curveballs would depend entirely on the SJA you meet with. So the curveballs are just that... curveballs. For instance, I had an SJA ask me for my 3 favorite movies of all time. Just be yourself. Good luck!

[Esquire]

About Army deployment:


Date: January 2nd, 2011 3:34 AM
Author: ArmyJAG

With respect to point 4, this is untrue. The JAG Corps recognizes at the highest levels that not everyone will have the chance to deploy going forward (at least until the next major conflict). As a result, it has put out the word that not deploying will not adversely affect one's career. If you don't want to deploy during your first four years, I would say you could achieve that with absolute certainty.


I'm hoping to deploy early in my career but for those looking to avoid deployment...

[ScottRiqui]

For those awaiting LEP results, be aware that not getting selected (either rejected outright or designated an alternate) isn't necessarily the end. A good friend of mine from my first squadron didn't make it initially, but when she pointed out to the Navy LEP coordinator that she had been offered a full ride from one of the schools she had applied to, they went ahead and created another spot for her, since it wasn't going to cost the Navy anything to send her to law school other than moving expenses to & from the city where she'd be attending.

[Patrick Bateman]

About Army deployment:


Date: January 2nd, 2011 3:34 AM
Author: ArmyJAG

With respect to point 4, this is untrue. The JAG Corps recognizes at the highest levels that not everyone will have the chance to deploy going forward (at least until the next major conflict). As a result, it has put out the word that not deploying will not adversely affect one's career. If you don't want to deploy during your first four years, I would say you could achieve that with absolute certainty.



I'm hoping to deploy early in my career but for those looking to avoid deployment...

I have to quibble with this response a bit, at least from my perspective.

In the strictest sense, would a promotion board or the like openly hold a lack of deployment experience against someone? No in that it would not be a black & white item on the checklist like advanced degrees or professional military education courses might.

I believe it can be a disadvantage, however, in the cultural sense. A lack of a deployment makes some officers appear suspect in the greater officer corps or service at large. When in service dress, the first thing one does is size up the other party by their ribbon rack. It is readily apparent if the person has deployed or not based what they are wearing. A lot of us cannot help but wonder about the O-3s that have over 4 years in but spent no time overseas. This even more pronounced with the O-5s and O-6s currently in leadership positions.

I’m presently deployed in a Joint environment and the Soldiers I work with, consciously or not, look for a fellow Soldier’s combat deployment patch when they meet for the first time. I’ve heard a fair amount of contempt behind closed doors about the Field Grades they encounter that have nothing on their right sleeve.

Deployments are a requisite facet of military culture in the post 9/11 Armed Forces. You gain credibility, and more importantly, have interactions and experiences that are impossible while CONUS that are a fundamental benefit to your growth as a person and an officer. I do not see any shame about anxiety or nerves at the prospect of a 179 or 365 in Afghanistan or Iraq. It can be a scary thing. I would see an issue with someone looking to hold a commission, even in the Reserves or Guard, and hoping to ride out the war without ever having to pay the piper and leave garrison.

And, for what it is worth, the promotion/selection boards will all be able to see a service member’s decorations and awards. Even though a service may remove deployments from the checklist, it would take all of a few seconds to ferret out this information. Again, it would never officially be used to one’s detriment, but it certainly has the potential form an impression in the mind of a given board.

[Esquire]

Agreed. I posted it as information about not necessarily having to deploy as an Army JAG during your first tour. For those who just want to punch their ticket, the option may be more available than previously.

[umassalpha]

And according to http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 0#p2389521 it seems like last year's fall selections came out on a Friday, the 8th. Jan 5, 2009 is a Monday.

I'm going to guess we'll hear next Friday. If not, the following Monday.

I presume it'll be the end of the week. Although I have no basis of knowledge for that, I just hope to know one way or the other by this week!

[Patrick Bateman]

Agreed. I posted it as information about not necessarily having to deploy as an Army JAG during your first tour. For those who just want to punch their ticket, the option may be more available than previously.

Understood - I was not trying call you out or take issue with anything you wrote. My issue sniping was with XOXO's ArmyJAG.

[Paichka]

Hrm. (The following is not directed at any particular poster, just a weird thing I've noticed among those applying to JAG).

I have a bit of a problem with the whole, "If you don't want to deploy, you could achieve that with absolute certainty" bit. That's...overstating the situation. Unless you know for a fact that your first unit is, say, a training brigade out of Fort Jackson, or the JAG office in Fort Belvoir or Myer, you could very well end up deploying. Your first unit is probably not going to be that kind of cush stateside assignment -- it'll be someplace large more than likely, like Fort Hood or Fort Stewart, where they deploy every other year. That's certainly slowing down now that we've drawn down in Iraq, but there's still Afghanistan to think of -- we'll be there until 2014 or so. I have no idea how you'd even go about getting an assignment "guaranteed" not to deploy as a newly minted Army JAG. The nondeployable slots are usually plum positions that go to officers who've been in at least a couple of years (litigation division in DC, Government Appellate Division, etc).

I've deployed twice. My husband has deployed three times. It blows, but I knew what I was signing up for when I took the ROTC scholarship way back when. I'll graduate law school in 2012, probably get to my first unit in early 2013. If I end up deploying again, that will suck -- nobody WANTS to deploy -- but Christ on a Cracker, WTF are people doing applying to the MILITARY, of all places, if they're planning on ducking a deployment? The purpose of the military is to fight and win our nation's wars. If you can't get on board with that, you have no business taking the king's shilling in the first place.

[nygrrrl]

Hrm. (The following is not directed at any particular poster, just a weird thing I've noticed among those applying to JAG).

I have a bit of a problem with the whole, "If you don't want to deploy, you could achieve that with absolute certainty" bit. That's...overstating the situation. Unless you know for a fact that your first unit is, say, a training brigade out of Fort Jackson, or the JAG office in Fort Belvoir or Myer, you could very well end up deploying. Your first unit is probably not going to be that kind of cush stateside assignment -- it'll be someplace large more than likely, like Fort Hood or Fort Stewart, where they deploy every other year. That's certainly slowing down now that we've drawn down in Iraq, but there's still Afghanistan to think of -- we'll be there until 2014 or so. I have no idea how you'd even go about getting an assignment "guaranteed" not to deploy as a newly minted Army JAG. The nondeployable slots are usually plum positions that go to officers who've been in at least a couple of years (litigation division in DC, Government Appellate Division, etc).

I've deployed twice. My husband has deployed three times. It blows, but I knew what I was signing up for when I took the ROTC scholarship way back when. I'll graduate law school in 2012, probably get to my first unit in early 2013. If I end up deploying again, that will suck -- nobody WANTS to deploy -- but Christ on a Cracker, WTF are people doing applying to the MILITARY, of all places, if they're planning on ducking a deployment? The purpose of the military is to fight and win our nation's wars. If you can't get on board with that, you have no business taking the king's shilling in the first place.

Well-put. (imho)

[sylvernight]

Hrm. (The following is not directed at any particular poster, just a weird thing I've noticed among those applying to JAG).

I have a bit of a problem with the whole, "If you don't want to deploy, you could achieve that with absolute certainty" bit. That's...overstating the situation. Unless you know for a fact that your first unit is, say, a training brigade out of Fort Jackson, or the JAG office in Fort Belvoir or Myer, you could very well end up deploying. Your first unit is probably not going to be that kind of cush stateside assignment -- it'll be someplace large more than likely, like Fort Hood or Fort Stewart, where they deploy every other year. That's certainly slowing down now that we've drawn down in Iraq, but there's still Afghanistan to think of -- we'll be there until 2014 or so. I have no idea how you'd even go about getting an assignment "guaranteed" not to deploy as a newly minted Army JAG. The nondeployable slots are usually plum positions that go to officers who've been in at least a couple of years (litigation division in DC, Government Appellate Division, etc).

I've deployed twice. My husband has deployed three times. It blows, but I knew what I was signing up for when I took the ROTC scholarship way back when. I'll graduate law school in 2012, probably get to my first unit in early 2013. If I end up deploying again, that will suck -- nobody WANTS to deploy -- but Christ on a Cracker, WTF are people doing applying to the MILITARY, of all places, if they're planning on ducking a deployment? The purpose of the military is to fight and win our nation's wars. If you can't get on board with that, you have no business taking the king's shilling in the first place.

Agreed--well put.

To which I'd like to add--deployments can be great learning opportunities as well. I just got back from one (I'm the crazy type who volunteered), and I think it was a great exercise in self-sufficiency and ensuring you can do your job without your safety net (i.e., supervisor/other co-workers) around. I obviously don't know what JAG deployments are like, but I would think the idea would be similar. Plus, there's the whole LOAC/detainee treatment aspect, that I'm guessing can't be experienced outside of a deployment. If I'm selected, I'm pretty excited to deploy again.

[SemperLegal]

Plus, there's the whole LOAC/detainee treatment aspect, that I'm guessing can't be experienced outside of a deployment. If I'm selected, I'm pretty excited to deploy again.

My SLA got assigned to a transition team and spent the deployment training judges and establishing Rules of the Court for a province. That sounds like a dream assignment for any lawyer.

[Baylan]

Hrm. (The following is not directed at any particular poster, just a weird thing I've noticed among those applying to JAG).

I have a bit of a problem with the whole, "If you don't want to deploy, you could achieve that with absolute certainty" bit. That's...overstating the situation. Unless you know for a fact that your first unit is, say, a training brigade out of Fort Jackson, or the JAG office in Fort Belvoir or Myer, you could very well end up deploying. Your first unit is probably not going to be that kind of cush stateside assignment -- it'll be someplace large more than likely, like Fort Hood or Fort Stewart, where they deploy every other year. That's certainly slowing down now that we've drawn down in Iraq, but there's still Afghanistan to think of -- we'll be there until 2014 or so. I have no idea how you'd even go about getting an assignment "guaranteed" not to deploy as a newly minted Army JAG. The nondeployable slots are usually plum positions that go to officers who've been in at least a couple of years (litigation division in DC, Government Appellate Division, etc).

I've deployed twice. My husband has deployed three times. It blows, but I knew what I was signing up for when I took the ROTC scholarship way back when. I'll graduate law school in 2012, probably get to my first unit in early 2013. If I end up deploying again, that will suck -- nobody WANTS to deploy -- but Christ on a Cracker, WTF are people doing applying to the MILITARY, of all places, if they're planning on ducking a deployment? The purpose of the military is to fight and win our nation's wars. If you can't get on board with that, you have no business taking the king's shilling in the first place.

I'm not a serviceman, nor am I even a selectee for JAG, but this certainly seems credited. I don't understand why anyone would apply while trying to avoid deploying. I am applying and hope to be selected, and I understand that deployments can be very trying not only from a personal, but also from a familial standpoint, the fact of the matter is that it is a big part of the job. If you aren't deploying... Someone else is.

[umassalpha]

ahhh i just wanna know either way, Army JAG! I already have the March 1 app halfway filled out

[Voyager]

Thanks for all the info, Patrick.

What's the typical age of people doing JAG? Are they typically 25 year olds that didn't take off between UG & LS, or are there some "non-traditional" grads in there as well?

I can tell you the age cut-off for AF is 35 (unless you are prior officer) which particularly sucks for me, because I'm a 4 year tour prior-enlisted Active AF and I still can't get a waiver. I'll be 38 when I graduate Law School.

Moreover, I started this thread, and moments later I talked with an AF JAG recruiter and he broke the bad news to me.

The age restriction is 42 for Army/Nave Jag, so I'll explore that, but having spent time in the AF, I'd rather do that

42??? Wow.

Marines cut off is 28.

[Patrick Bateman]

Thanks for all the info, Patrick.

What's the typical age of people doing JAG? Are they typically 25 year olds that didn't take off between UG & LS, or are there some "non-traditional" grads in there as well?

I can tell you the age cut-off for AF is 35 (unless you are prior officer) which particularly sucks for me, because I'm a 4 year tour prior-enlisted Active AF and I still can't get a waiver. I'll be 38 when I graduate Law School.

Moreover, I started this thread, and moments later I talked with an AF JAG recruiter and he broke the bad news to me.

The age restriction is 42 for Army/Nave Jag, so I'll explore that, but having spent time in the AF, I'd rather do that

42??? Wow.

Marines cut off is 28.

The Marine Corps is different in a number of different ways from the other services, the least of which being age to commission. So what?

[Voyager]

Thanks for all the info, Patrick.

What's the typical age of people doing JAG? Are they typically 25 year olds that didn't take off between UG & LS, or are there some "non-traditional" grads in there as well?

I can tell you the age cut-off for AF is 35 (unless you are prior officer) which particularly sucks for me, because I'm a 4 year tour prior-enlisted Active AF and I still can't get a waiver. I'll be 38 when I graduate Law School.

Moreover, I started this thread, and moments later I talked with an AF JAG recruiter and he broke the bad news to me.

The age restriction is 42 for Army/Nave Jag, so I'll explore that, but having spent time in the AF, I'd rather do that

42??? Wow.

Marines cut off is 28.

The Marine Corps is different in a number of different ways from the other services, the least of which being age to commission. So what?

hey, relax. no one was attacking you or the air force. I am well aware how different the Marines are than the other services. The lower age requirement is due to the rigors of Marines OCS. I was just surpised that the age disparity was so great.... and how similar air force uniforms are to Grey Hound bus driver uniforms.

[Patrick Bateman]

hey, relax. no one was attacking you or the air force. I am well aware how different the Marines are than the other services. The lower age requirement is due to the rigors of Marines OCS. I was just surpised that the age disparity was so great.... and how similar air force uniforms are to Grey Hound bus driver uniforms.

I was not taking it as a slight on the AF or Patrick Bateman.

And there is no one that hates our service dress more than myself. I dream of a world where I can hang my blues and ABUs up and let them collect dust in favor of the MultiCam and something that does not look like the suit an extra would wear on Mad Men, just with more shit pinned on.