Attorney Advisor (Trademark Examining Attorney) for USPTO Forum

[Anonymous User]

man! thats brutal. sorry to hear that. i'm a fellow may classer, and was waiting to hear about a deferment but was shocked they deferred so far out. I was expecting 6-8 weeks, with the caveat that they would reassess if things didn't get better.

it seems like they just didn't want to deal with keeping an eye on the situation, and went for the easiest solution for management - pushing as far out without actually rescinding the offers.

[Anonymous User]

man! thats brutal. sorry to hear that. i'm a fellow may classer, and was waiting to hear about a deferment but was shocked they deferred so far out. I was expecting 6-8 weeks, with the caveat that they would reassess if things didn't get better.

it seems like they just didn't want to deal with keeping an eye on the situation, and went for the easiest solution for management - pushing as far out without actually rescinding the offers.

Yeah, and just watch them change their mind early and give everyone less than two-weeks notice in July to show up or give it up.

[Anonymous User]

The Office also reduced overtime from 20 hours/biweek to 0. Filings are down for the first quarter but will likely be much worse going forward. Not to be overly pessimistic but the Office has hired a lot recently based on projected increases in filings. They may not believe there’s a need or the financial flexibility to continue to hire.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the update, though not what we want to hear. If they change their policy back to what it used to be, ie extra over time of 20 hours a week, please let us know.

[Anonymous User]

The Office also reduced overtime from 20 hours/biweek to 0. Filings are down for the first quarter but will likely be much worse going forward. Not to be overly pessimistic but the Office has hired a lot recently based on projected increases in filings. They may not believe there’s a need or the financial flexibility to continue to hire.

Thank you for this. I think this is why it makes sense that they deferred an entire class to October. This means they are foregoing hiring for at least one class in the cycle (May replaced October) to make up for the projected reduction in filings. We are all speculating here, but I imagine (and I know this stings) that there may not be another round of new hires for a while.

[Anonymous User]

The Office also reduced overtime from 20 hours/biweek to 0. Filings are down for the first quarter but will likely be much worse going forward. Not to be overly pessimistic but the Office has hired a lot recently based on projected increases in filings. They may not believe there’s a need or the financial flexibility to continue to hire.

Thank you for this. I think this is why it makes sense that they deferred an entire class to October. This means they are foregoing hiring for at least one class in the cycle (May replaced October) to make up for the projected reduction in filings. We are all speculating here, but I imagine (and I know this stings) that there may not be another round of new hires for a while.

That seems quite speculative. A much more likely reason for the delay in the start date is the logistical nightmare created by the coronavirus preventing new hires, instructors, and HR from physically entering the office. Then there is the matter of distributing USPTO laptops to 25 new hires who don't have the security badges necessary to log in to the VPN. I just dont see any way possible for the May class to begin training without spending the first week or so in the office. October was probably chosen to help coordinate the instruction schedule which examiners know utilizes many different instructors on a rotating basis. I definitely see the delay as primarily about logistics.

[Anonymous User]

The Office also reduced overtime from 20 hours/biweek to 0. Filings are down for the first quarter but will likely be much worse going forward. Not to be overly pessimistic but the Office has hired a lot recently based on projected increases in filings. They may not believe there’s a need or the financial flexibility to continue to hire.

Thank you for this. I think this is why it makes sense that they deferred an entire class to October. This means they are foregoing hiring for at least one class in the cycle (May replaced October) to make up for the projected reduction in filings. We are all speculating here, but I imagine (and I know this stings) that there may not be another round of new hires for a while.

That seems quite speculative. A much more likely reason for the delay in the start date is the logistical nightmare created by the coronavirus preventing new hires, instructors, and HR from physically entering the office. Then there is the matter of distributing USPTO laptops to 25 new hires who don't have the security badges necessary to log in to the VPN. I just dont see any way possible for the May class to begin training without spending the first week or so in the office. October was probably chosen to help coordinate the instruction schedule which examiners know utilizes many different instructors on a rotating basis. I definitely see the delay as primarily about logistics.

Logistics nightmare and it punts things straight into the next Fiscal Year. FY20 is now in the books, as far as any more hiring goes. How the addition of 25 new hires in October affects the hiring decisions for any reqs they post in FY21 is anyone's guess.

[Anonymous User]

Once the USPTO office buildings open, and the flood of cbd applications hit, and businesses are blooming, is there *any* possibility that those who are local start earlier in like July and those who have to move will start in October?

Or am I simply in the bargaining stage of grief?

[Anonymous User]

Once the USPTO office buildings open, and the flood of cbd applications hit, and businesses are blooming, is there *any* possibility that those who are local start earlier in like July and those who have to move will start in October?

Or am I simply in the bargaining stage of grief?

As much as I hope that would be right, you're more than likely still in the denial stage. The TM applications are still coming in and being processed by existing staff, most of whom were already telecommuting. Other than training, they are mostly business as usual.

First, they set the notification of interest deadline to the middle of July. It seems almost cruel of them to ask for that. Who's going to go through all of this and then not take the job, but I understand people would have to find new work in between and it would be very awkward for them to walk away from said job in October. That said, it suggests that if enough people opt out for whatever reasons, they might need to post a new listing to fill the gaps and replenish our training class size in time for October.

Second, its unlikely they would expend resources on a July training class for the locals and a second full training class for the rest in Fall. As inconvenient as this has been for us, their punt to October shows they're not going to jump through any additional hoops on our behalf. I am simply grateful they didn't rescind the offers and pull the posting altogether. (There better be a stupendous gift basket for us on day one, though).

We got hosed. Hard. The 25 of us May classers should really take a roll call in the summer, see which of us have moved since then, and just get hammered during an unofficial 'team-building' exercise. Otherwise, I'll see 24 of you in October. What a mess. To those of you that already quit jobs and up and moved, what are you doing now?

Stay strong.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for that. That’s the straight real talk I needed right now. Coming from a fellow May classer hits it home. Really, thank you.

1000% down for unofficial summer team building exercise.

In the meantime, I’m applying for random jobs in the DC area, law jobs and non-law jobs. Not too optimistic about anything right now but maybe in the summer it will be better.

Anyone else?

[Anonymous User]

That's really tough, I'm sorry!! There's a good amount of temp and doc review type work in DC (well, under normal circumstances), might be worth looking into so that you don't have to quit a "real" job in October.

I already moved and luckily it doesn't affect my current job. I wanted to give a good amount of notice so I was getting ready to do that but sure am glad I held off.

Agree with the person who said they are happy they didn't just rescind offers. Fingers crossed that the economy will be ramping back up by October and everything will go smoothly after this huge hiccup. I'm looking forward to meeting all of you and to the unofficial team building exercise!

[S.P.F. 30]

I had given notice back in February to end about a month or so before start and had already filed the appropriate motions with the courts and turned over all of my cases. Was burning up unclaimed PTO to pad out the break when we got hit with the deferral news.

My boss was gracious enough to keep me on (less the used up PTO, of course), mostly because the other attorneys hadn't even begun work on my cases. I come back the next week, right before my official last day (now cancelled), just in time for the whole state to shut down a few days later. Rekt, as the kids say.

I got off a lot luckier than most, so I shouldn't complain (much).

[Anonymous User]

Literally same here. Now since coronavirus my firm has daily billable checks. I had given my notice & almost broke free. #REKT.

[Anonymous User]

March class members ---How's work at the PTO so far? Did you all finish the training yet?

[Anonymous User]

"Trademark law, patent prosecution, and other forms of intellectual property work are likely to slow dramatically. Before the coronavirus, trademark law was doing very well because new businesses that have lots of money from private equity and VC backers have a lot to spend on trademarking new brands. Trademark work is all likely to stop—and stop hard—immediately. In every recession I have ever seen, trademark law is among the hardest and most quickly hit. It is likely to be devastated"

https://www.bcgsearch.com/article/90005 ... ow-and-Do/



Very very sad.

[Anonymous User]

"Trademark law, patent prosecution, and other forms of intellectual property work are likely to slow dramatically. Before the coronavirus, trademark law was doing very well because new businesses that have lots of money from private equity and VC backers have a lot to spend on trademarking new brands. Trademark work is all likely to stop—and stop hard—immediately. In every recession I have ever seen, trademark law is among the hardest and most quickly hit. It is likely to be devastated"

https://www.bcgsearch.com/article/90005 ... ow-and-Do/



Very very sad.

Because this is clearly stressing you out, I'll weigh in here--assuming you're not an EA. If you already work for USPTO and are venting with us on the forum, you probably know more than me and can ignore my assessment. I don't work at USPTO but have worked in trademarks for some time now. I wouldn't let a BCG article be the end-all for determining how the current economic dip will affect trademarks. First off, BCG is a recruitment firm. They benefit, to an extent, from lawyers who read articles like these, assume their jobs are in danger, approach recruiters and, in this epic state of anxiety, don't assert much leverage in what job/salary/conditions they accept. BCG benefits from lawyers feeling doomed in their current professions. BCG did not cite numbers or detail trends to support their projections or conclusions. In my trademarks career, I have experienced a recession, even layoffs, and the trademarks economy tends to recover quickly. This happens partly because while businesses go bankrupt during a recession, many new ones are formed when disgruntled 9-5 type employees experience a crisis and no longer want to deal with their current employer. People laid off from traditional jobs go out on a limb and start new businesses too. Business owners also are often counseled to prioritized trademark protection so they can license their IP, or sell it if they are closing their business. Trademarks simply don't come to a halt, fizzle, and die like the author suggests. If it's any consolation, the USPTO has been hiring for new positions as early as 4 days ago. My firm still has trademark work coming in. From my perspective, we aren't at the point of gloom and doom by a long shot, but I'm open to hearing opposing viewpoints.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah totally agree, take that article with a grain of salt. It’s too early for now. I’m also in private practice and while some clients have paused or held back these couple of weeks, they are resuming now, and many have come up with new businesses and applications. Don’t fret yet.

I’m also wondering how it’s going for the March class. Also, for seasoned examining attorneys, is this in any way affecting the production assessment changes or pressures complained of earlier?

I’ve noticed in my own private practice that examiners seem to be issuing office actions faster than usual. But I spoke to at least one examining attorney who said nothing has really been felt yet bc everything is still three months behind. I also have some applications for cbd products that are still super backed up.

Just wondering how this seems to be affecting examining attorneys with the new production requirements and pressures, beyond just the no overtime rule change.

[Anonymous User]

Happy False Starting Day to the May Class

[S.P.F. 30]

Happy False Starting Day to the May Class

Seconded. See y'all in 5 months...

[xmgr]

I would only caution that the slowdown will lag. Anything that was currently in progress will continue, it's the reaction to what has happened that will slow things down later in the year. There could be some real pain in September. Having said that, there is no way to predict what will happen. If there is a significant bounce in the summer, it will come back quickly.

[Anonymous User]

Apply May 18, start June 3, end August 28??! USPTO Virtual Summer Externship program?

https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/567276800

They can’t coordinate a sanitary way to give us laptops to start working but can coordinate the hiring process and entire program for summer interns??

The USPTO filings were only down 1% of the projections...

Are the restrictions on hours/ bonuses still in place?

[Anonymous User]

Ugh, that's frustrating!! I actually just heard of someone starting a job at another fed agency imminently. He said HR orientation is going to be via phone and they are still sorting how to handle the rest of the onboarding/training, but at least they are bringing people on still. This is not a large class type of position, but still. PTO is so telework oriented normally, I would have expected this agency to figure out virtual training better than most.

On a different note, for folks who are there, how is the new commissioner? Do you like him so far?

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw those positions are totally separate from trademark examination. Plus those positions aren’t paid. It seems to me that aside from logistics issues, the May class was pushed to October for budgetary purposes when the number of filings was dropping due to covid19. USPTO is fee funded after all. They cut overtime and bonuses, pushed back the May class start date, and there probably won’t be another round of hiring this year. It really sucks to have to wait so long from when you were supposed to but hopefully the wait is worth it for you. Hang in there!

[S.P.F. 30]

It wasn't a budget issue as the hiring class was already budgeted and approved last year. It's the logistics of training the May class and having both the Trainers and New Hires available in enclosed spaces. The March class was already half-way through training and had to switch over to virtual, which doesn't seem like it has produced favorable results. They want to protect their investment with the May class and make sure they are trained properly rather than risk the entire 2020 class being a loss.

I wonder if they will require the March class to report to in-person work once the stay at homes are lifted or if they will forgo the two-year probationary period altogether and continue working at home.

[Anonymous User]

Happy June, May Classers! We are now just four months away from October!

Can anyone explain how health insurance and parental leave work? Is health insurance automatic or is there a wait period? Regarding parental leave, there seems to be a difference between employees with less than a year vs probationary employees (I think us for first two years) vs non probationary employees (I think us after two years) vs employees with more than a year of service. I’ve got a medical problem that is forcing me to try to start a family earlier than I’d like, though ideally I’d like to wait until I’ve been there at least a year or two. Don’t know how to balance the pros and cons with leave vs the pros and cons of medical risk. Of course, the delay in start date also delightfully delayed our family plans as well!

Please talk up those great federal benefits so I can keep motivated in dredging through billing and private practice for the next four months Still, can’t wait to join the USPTO!