Attorney Advisor (Trademark Examining Attorney) for USPTO Forum

[Anonymous User]

During my interview they said first class starts on Monday March 2nd.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if anyone has gotten reference calls. I haven’t! But I wanted to let you know that I accepted a different position and will be dropping out. Maybe your odds got just a little bit better? Good luck to you all!

[Anonymous User]

I talked to an employee there who told me that probationary attorneys have been "stealth-removed", and that new attorneys like us are back-fill positions for the attorneys that are leaving/left. I talked to one person who is a current employee there but I trust her and we go back a long way. I don't have any other contacts (except this Board!). As a new mom I want a career that has work-life balance if I'm moving across the country. Anyone else out there hear anything about the new Agreement (PIP?) causing attorneys to find the job unbearable or undoable? I was told production and how attorneys are graded has changed a lot. That's why people are leaving. Anyone out there who has this job and loves it?

[Lawblr2018]

My friend works there and she also has a hard time managing the workload. I had my interview on Jan 16 and they let me know to expect a response in February. I don’t think I did well and didn’t really have any questions had a mind blank ...anyways I hope to hear soon.

[Anonymous User]

“Stealth-removed” meaning low-key fired?!

[Anonymous User]

Previous posts have mentioned how this job is not what it used to be...meaning that the requirements are much stricter and people are having a hard time meeting production. I think the probation period is 2 years, and you would know yourself during those 2 years, whether you have met the production or not. If you don’t meet it, then you are “forced to leave”.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know if "stealth removed" is the wording I would chose, but yes, from what I have heard, some new hires that left were basically told they would be let go because they weren't keeping up with the requirements.

And yes, the new PAP has higher production requirements, so it is much harder for attorneys to be rated well. Production-wise, you are rated quarterly (1-5), which ultimately results in your overall rating for the year. A lot of people are having a hard time keeping up, so yes, the job isn't what it used to be. How it will ultimately impact people remains to be seen, but others are definitely correct that moral is low, to say the least.

[Anonymous User]

Original poster above with stealth removal. I was told people are removed within even first training year for not meeting production. And nobody is told by bosses that a colleague is now gone. Confirmation on this? Government Lathaming?

It’s the people at the very top of PTO or Commerce that have changed the job so much causing the low morale. My friend there likes her management so it’s more of an agency wide problem it seems.

No word from me on reference checks.

[Anonymous User]

I like this job. I like trademark prosecution, went to law school to practice trademark law, and the agency facilities are new and clean. I was nervous to move to DC for a job but I've grown to love this city. Alexandria is a quaint and charming place to live. To clear some things,

1. Yes, you are a number. Yes, you are replaceable. People are fired during probationary, even under extenuating circumstances, for failing to meet a number. Yes, it is true that you will show up to work one day and that co-worker won’t be in the office anymore. No explanation. It creates a culture of paranoia that you might be next.

2. Yes, production increased a lot. There is a grade called “Fully Successful” you must meet to not get fired. Unofficially, what you are told by your reviewers and off the record is that you need an “Outstanding” in order to succeed. Most work unpaid overtime to meet production.

3. Yes, Quality reviews have changed a lot. Previously you could receive a 5, which is outstanding, even when making what is called a procedural error. With the new system, that same file will be graded as a One, something called “deficient”. Same exact error. Drastically different reviews. Go figure. This affects promotion eligibility, annual reviews, and details.

4. No, you will never interact with the people who make the decisions that impact your daily life. The senior management does not interact with you and does not seek trademark examiner feedback at all. The result is a new agreement that has resulted in “bad” morale to put it nicely. What people are saying about bad morale on this thread is true and widespread. Most are looking for employment elsewhere.

5. Yes, the stress of the agency causes people to act in unethical ways. Yes, the recent classes even got caught cheating in order to meet production numbers.

The job is good if you like trademark law. It’s not a work life balance job, but it’s challenging and enjoyable for those that love IP like myself.

[Anonymous User]

Are you a GS-11 for the first 2 years, or do you advance to GS-12 after the first year?

[Anonymous User]

I got my reference check call today! Good luck everyone

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for that very helpful and informative post. Not sure if you can share this...but how were people able to cheat? Did they make up their production numbers? Maybe it’s because I don’t work there now but I can’t imagine how people can “cheat” on a job.

[Anonymous User]

Regarding GS level, you increase a level (GS11 to GS12) each year, automatically. The exception (which they don’t tell you) is for GS13 to GS14, you must be rated at a “5” (the highest rating) for the quality element, which is very difficult, especially under the new standards.

Not sure about cheating. No, you can’t fudge your numbers though, they’re tracked electronically through the system.

[Anonymous User]

Congrats to the poster above. Did they say on the phone if you will be in March or May class? I haven’t gotten a call yet...so I’m hoping more calls will be coming soon...

[Anonymous User]

Likewise, congrats to the one who got the reference call. Did they say how long between reference checks and a formal offer?

[Anonymous User]

They said that I would be in the May class. They also said that reference checks would take a week or two. It seems pretty early that they would be all through the march and may people though.

[Anonymous User]

They said that I would be in the May class. They also said that reference checks would take a week or two. It seems pretty early that they would be all through the march and may people though.

Meaning the March class will probably only have three weeks to provide notice to current job, move, and start on March 2. Cold. Maybe the March class will be entirely people currently without jobs?

[Anonymous User]

Would you mind sharing which day you interviewed on?

[S.P.F. 30]

They said that I would be in the May class. They also said that reference checks would take a week or two. It seems pretty early that they would be all through the march and may people though.

If it's the Managing Attorney for each law office talking to their singular hire's references, you would think that a decision would come almost as soon as they were done with their three calls.

Please don't tell me they are each calling two to three applicants' references (9 max) and then deciding who to hire from there...

[Anonymous User]

Would you mind sharing which day you interviewed on?

I interviewed on the 14th

[Anonymous User]

I also got a call yesterday. It was from an Arlington, VA number, for those looking out. She said it would likely be for the May class. By the time I called my family to tell them and walked back into my office, the managing partners at my firm had already been emailed with the reference request.

Luckily, I told my firm two weeks ago about my move to VA and interview with the PTO. As such, maybe you all want to prepare your supervisors if they were on your references list.

She didn’t say a start date for May. Anyone know when that would be?

[Anonymous User]

I also got a call yesterday. It was from an Arlington, VA number, for those looking out. She said it would likely be for the May class. By the time I called my family to tell them and walked back into my office, the managing partners at my firm had already been emailed with the reference request.

Luckily, I told my firm two weeks ago about my move to VA and interview with the PTO. As such, maybe you all want to prepare your supervisors if they were on your references list.

She didn’t say a start date for May. Anyone know when that would be?

I was told May 11th

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know if making it to the reference check stage means, barring a horrendous reference call, that you are getting the full offer?

[Anonymous User]

I also got a call today, for the March 2 class, and my references were called shortly after. It's my understanding that, assuming the reference check goes well, the full offer should come over the next week or so, depending on where each person falls in the pile of 50 that HR has to get through. I already live (and work) in NoVA, so maybe they try to place locals in the March class and give those moving here a little more time?

[Anonymous User]

I also got a call today, for the March 2 class, and my references were called shortly after. It's my understanding that, assuming the reference check goes well, the full offer should come over the next week or so, depending on where each person falls in the pile of 50 that HR has to get through. I already live (and work) in NoVA, so maybe they try to place locals in the March class and give those moving here a little more time?

It's more likely based off of the Law Offices' specific calendar needs and openings rather than the applicants' location.