Attorney Advisor (Trademark Examining Attorney) for USPTO Forum

[Anonymous User]

Thank you. Some people mentioned working 40+ hours without additional compensation. Is there no overtime pay or comp time available if you're working 40+?

I have received overtime pay or comp time when I worked it if I requested it. You're eligible for comp time after 6 months and overtime after a year. However, there is a downside in that working either of these do affect your production. So, for example, if you work 2 hours of overtime, a certain number will be deducted from your production total. It's a little different for comp time versus overtime, but it's a good thing to be aware of. Long story short, if you're working overtime/comp time, it's not going to help you towards production goals generally.

I know other examiner's have disagreed, but I was someone who relocated across country for this position and I really enjoy it the vast majority of the time. But I guess a lot of it has to do with perspective.

[Anonymous User]

Mine is also the 6th, and my last name is also in the middle. I’m from out of state. Based on previous posts, it seems like there is still time for more interviews to go out.

Is whether you get an offer 100% dependent on your interview performance? I think I’ll be fine but would like to know if I could have a buffer of points or whatever from my writing sample, resume, etc. This weird good cop bad cop act might throw me off guard.

I also saw someone before say they wish they talked to each person who asked the question as opposed to the whole group when they answered. Do you all agree?

Thanks to everyone who’ve been so helpful here. Good luck to all those interviewing.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you. Some people mentioned working 40+ hours without additional compensation. Is there no overtime pay or comp time available if you're working 40+?

I have received overtime pay or comp time when I worked it if I requested it. You're eligible for comp time after 6 months and overtime after a year. However, there is a downside in that working either of these do affect your production. So, for example, if you work 2 hours of overtime, a certain number will be deducted from your production total. It's a little different for comp time versus overtime, but it's a good thing to be aware of. Long story short, if you're working overtime/comp time, it's not going to help you towards production goals generally.

I know other examiner's have disagreed, but I was someone who relocated across country for this position and I really enjoy it the vast majority of the time. But I guess a lot of it has to do with perspective.

Thanks. A few quality-of-life questions, if you're willing:
i) What is the office space arrangement (i.e. personal offices, cubicle farm, bullpen, shared open space, etc.)
ii) Are Metro commuting costs reimbursed
iii) Is parking assigned/validated

Thanks again.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone who has gone through the interviews this year, is there only 1 panel of interviewers?

[Anonymous User]

Thank you. Some people mentioned working 40+ hours without additional compensation. Is there no overtime pay or comp time available if you're working 40+?

I have received overtime pay or comp time when I worked it if I requested it. You're eligible for comp time after 6 months and overtime after a year. However, there is a downside in that working either of these do affect your production. So, for example, if you work 2 hours of overtime, a certain number will be deducted from your production total. It's a little different for comp time versus overtime, but it's a good thing to be aware of. Long story short, if you're working overtime/comp time, it's not going to help you towards production goals generally.

I know other examiner's have disagreed, but I was someone who relocated across country for this position and I really enjoy it the vast majority of the time. But I guess a lot of it has to do with perspective.

Thanks. A few quality-of-life questions, if you're willing:
i) What is the office space arrangement (i.e. personal offices, cubicle farm, bullpen, shared open space, etc.)
ii) Are Metro commuting costs reimbursed
iii) Is parking assigned/validated

Thanks again.

i) For trademark examining attorneys, offices are personal. They're fairly nice, they just did a furniture refresh at the end of last year/beginning of this one, so they have desks that convert to standing desks if you wish and such. Window offices are given with seniority, so definitely don't expect anything like that for the first year or two.
ii) Yes, there is a subsidy for riding to and from work (up to a certain amount, I think it's in the ballpark of a maximum of $270 a month). You can either drive or metro. You just register your metro card and each month, they put a certain amount on at the beginning of the month for you to use (it's calculated based on the fare from your closest metro stop, it's not automatically the maximum amount). For those unfamiliar with the area, the metro (Kings Street Station) is close, approximately a half mile from the campus. Both the blue and yellow lines run to that station/the Alexandria area.
iii) No assigned parking, it's first-come, first-serve. There are two large garages though. I've only driven like once. The garages are fine, typical parking garages. You can get a monthly pass (not sure the price) but it's reduced (though the PTO does NOT cover the cost). I think you can take it out pre-tax if I recall correctly, but again, I don't drive to work so I'm not %100 sure. If you happen to drive in one day (because of an appointment or whatever), there are machines at security to validate the ticket which gives you a discount.

[Anonymous User]

Hi, quick question. These are early days in terms of my hiring process, but I want to make plans in case I do get an offer. I have an interview next week for, presumably, the March class. I combed through the thread and saw that training is approximately six weeks. I have a trip planned for mid April (flights, hotel, event tickets, all nonrefundable, already booked). I would need to take three days of leave. If I were so lucky as to get an offer, is it impossible to take any leave during the training? Am I even wasting my time with the interview? Or are they flexible with pre-planned vacations and the like?

Thank you for anyone who might be able to provide insight!

[Anonymous User]

Taking a vacation will be fine. Tell them first week of work.

I do like this job and PTO usually ranks high in the annual survey of federal agencies. One year PTO even got first out of all federal agencies. This past year there was a question on management approval or disapproval. Management got over 50 percent disapproval in Trademarks section. This was way higher than any other office at PTO. We all have different reasons for how we answered this question. I think it has to do with the PAP, which is the new agreement of management raising production amounts, and simply not feeling valued by management. Felt like management cared only about raising production and not valuing our contributions and efforts. I tell people looking at jobs to look at any data of surveys you can get your hands on. That avoids more of the anecdotal evidence and gives good insight on what employees like and dislike about the job.

[Anonymous User]

So how have the interviews been going for those that got them?

[Anonymous User]

The interview was tough but fair. For some reason I had in my mind that I would be interviewing with examining attorneys and their supervisors, but i think the interview is with their supervisors/ managers, who are attorneys in their 50s-60s, many of whom kept a poker face through out.

Can someone explain how vacation PTO works? Also, how maternity leave may affect promotions/telework? They said after two years you can then petition to work from home and then they will review your work over 3-4 months and decide whether to grant the telework request.

If I were to have to go on maternity leave right before the two year mark in 2022, (and take as little leave as possible), would that push back the time to petition for telework/ promotion?

I am not pregnant nor plan to be during the first year, 2020-2021, but I recently found out I have the breast cancer gene and have been recommended to move up family planning more than I anticipated, perhaps during 2021-2022.

Many thanks.

[Anonymous User]

PTO leave works as follows: each biweek, you earn a certain amount. For the first few years, it’s 4 hours vacation and 4 hours sick leave a biweek (unlike other jobs, they distinguish the two). Eventually, you earn 6 hours a biweek instead. You can take vacation for whatever purpose and sick for things like illness, doctors appointments, etc.

As far as maternity leave goes, it’s my understanding the rules will be changing in October because of the new parental leave Congress established for federal employees. Under that, those who qualify (you can look up the requirements, not sure what they are exactly yet), parents can take 12 weeks of paid leave. Under the current system, it’s my understanding that you either use your own leave or just take leave unpaid.

And yes, to work from home, you have to qualify. For full-time, you must be there at least two years and complete scheduled training (which seems to always fall just before people are eligible).

[Anonymous User]

Are there hiring managers who are not present at the interview who are hiring for their offices? I had a panel of 8 interviewers...does that mean if my 8 interviewers don’t like me, I won’t be selected for the position? Or will these 8 ppl share their feedback with other hiring managers who were not present at the interview?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have interviews this week or the following? I'm wondering how many weeks they are going for.

[xmgr]

Someone up there has one today. I am wondering if they will wait until after this round to invite anyone else (someone had said that they thought there would be another round).

[Colonials]

Are there hiring managers who are not present at the interview who are hiring for their offices? I had a panel of 8 interviewers...does that mean if my 8 interviewers don’t like me, I won’t be selected for the position? Or will these 8 ppl share their feedback with other hiring managers who were not present at the interview?

I second this question!

[Anonymous User]

Did anyone else who interviewed got a better sense of when we will be hearing back?

[Anonymous User]

There was no estimated time period of when they will make a final decision. However, they said that there will be two classes of 25 examines; one class will start first week of March, the other the some time in April.

Does anyone have interviews this week or the following? I'm wondering how many weeks they are going for.

Looks like there’s close to 200 candidates they have to interview. That alone will take a while. Each interview is about 30 minutes.

[Colonials]

In my interview they said that the interviews would go on for up to two and half weeks. So that would be from Jan 6 - Jan 22. They said from there they will take about two weeks to make decisions. Then over the next two weeks they will be calling to ask for references and if you’re still interested. They said that while their goal is to give everyone at least around one month notice, it will likely be more around three, and at a minimum, two weeks. So I’d say the open date to get calls would be generally around February 5, and for the March class, will go up to maybe the February 17. These are of course just estimations. I don’t know whether the start date is March 2 or 9, but for some reason I think it’s March 9.


For current examiners, once the two month or six week training period is over, can new examiners start with one of the flexible hours schedule (such as getting in at 5:30 and leaving earlier?) Or is this unavailable until the two year mark? Thanks and good luck everyone

[Anonymous User]

It is my understanding that the flexible hours schedule is something the managing attorney decides (at least, that was my understanding during training). That being said, you *can* start with flexible hours once training is complete, as many examiners (including myself) do so before the two year mark. I'm not sure if all law offices/managers have that same policy, as it has never occurred to me to ask.

And just as a note for those unaware, law offices are basically your work unit, consisting of a managing attorney, a senior attorney, and your fellow examining attorneys. It is my understanding that some of the hires for March (I think 15 from what I have heard) are for a new training office. A training office is a little different in that all the attorneys start at the same time, so everyone is new. Some people are hired to backfill other offices, while others are hired for the training offices. I'm not really sure if anything in particular determines where you get placed.

[Anonymous User]

Now starts the nervous time of waiting and staring at the phone. Good luck people.

I'm trying to run numbers in my head. ***Please note the rest of this post is pure speculation based off of observations. For the sake of my sanity and others reading this thread, correct as you see fit.****

Based on these previous posts, they are supposedly looking to hire 40-55 examiners this cycle, split between March and May starting classes. This out of a pool of 120-170 applicants being interviewed. Roughly speaking if everyone interviewed in front of the same 10 people, you'd have a 1 in 3 chance (33.33%).

However, given the waiting room crowd and overlapping interview times, it is my assumption that there was at least 2 rooms of interviews going on simultaneously. For each room, there was about ten interviewers who were either the Managing Attorney or Senior Atty for their respective Law Office. There's an unknown if all the people in the room interviewed all of the applicants or there was some kind of rotating spots changing out.

If it was two rooms of the same 10 people, each room would see roughly half of the applicant and hire half from there, leaving the chances at being selected still around 33%. If there was a rotating batch for each room, the numbers start falling off towards under 20%. Let's assume that there would be no horse-trading or other draft-fights between the offices and all selections are done based on the seniority of the managing atty or other set order (meaning if someone ahead grabbed your top pick, you'd have to go with your next highest pick).

Right now there's 30 "Law Office" departments with the TM Examination branch. If each law office picks one new hire, that leaves 10-25 extra hires. If they are creating a 31st office, that means that the newly minted Managing Atty (and maybe their new Senior Atty) would likely be picking last, but would be getting 10-25 picks from the 90-140 left. To prevent all eggs in one basket, lets assume the MA and SA were in separate rooms and each had 5-12 picks each from their respective half of the applicant pool. (roughly, 12 picks from the 66 remaining, or about 18% for any one of those spots)

I guess your best shot would be to hope you were in the the top nine picks for any of the other 9 attys (assuming they each ranked identically) in the room rather than the people with multiple picks available.

As to next steps, there seems to be no consensus. Do they trim their list down to just their picks and call references simply to verify or do they make another cut (let's say half the pool), call references, and then decide from that?

[Anonymous User]

At the end of my interview, the told me they are hiring 50 people all together (25 in March and 25 in May). They are interviewing about 150 people (which in my mind could be anywhere from 150 to 160 people). There were at least 2 panels going on at one time slot.

Does anyone know if your offer is 100% dependent on how you do during the interview? Or will they also consider your writing sample, resume, experiences, etc (more like a holistic approach including the interview). My interview experience was just Q and A, and not conversational at all.

[Anonymous User]

Also, they are only calling references if AND only if they have decided to extend you an offer. At least that's what it has been in the past. So, let's say 150 people interviewed, they are not going to call all the references of 150 people. They will probably choose 50 people they want to hire and then call those people's references. If, for some reason, someone turns down the offer, they will then go down the list and call whomever they want to hire.

[Anonymous User]

Also, they are only calling references if AND only if they have decided to extend you an offer. At least that's what it has been in the past. So, let's say 150 people interviewed, they are not going to call all the references of 150 people. They will probably choose 50 people they want to hire and then call those people's references. If, for some reason, someone turns down the offer, they will then go down the list and call whomever they want to hire.

Despite the 5-6 month process, the very short turnaround from offer (first half of February) to start (first week of March) would make things difficult for people that would have to provide notice to current job and/or start the relocation effort. I wonder if they factor in proximity when deciding. That would be a huge advantage to applicants already in the DC/Maryland/Virginia area for the March spots.

[Anonymous User]

At the end of my interview, the told me they are hiring 50 people all together (25 in March and 25 in May). They are interviewing about 150 people (which in my mind could be anywhere from 150 to 160 people). There were at least 2 panels going on at one time slot.

Does anyone know if your offer is 100% dependent on how you do during the interview? Or will they also consider your writing sample, resume, experiences, etc (more like a holistic approach including the interview). My interview experience was just Q and A, and not conversational at all.

What sort of questions were you asked?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know the start date for March?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know the start date for March?

April 1st? It is a bureaucracy, after all. I think someone mentioned it was within the first two weeks of March, fingers crossed.

Of course, now that people are expecting calls, we can't screen (read: ignore) the robocalls like we used to out of fear of missing THE call and, somehow, the number of robocalls has jumped this week and next.