Attorney Advisor (Trademark Examining Attorney) for USPTO Forum

[Anonymous User]

I sent my writing sample 11/18 and got my interview invitation yesterday 12/12 right about 5pm so I wouldn’t be shocked if they still had some more today.

[Anonymous User]

Did anybody else get an invite? I still haven’t heard anything...

It is my understanding from prior years that interview requests usually go out in waves. Here's to hoping the rest hear back by next week.

[Anonymous User]

I haven't heard anything yet...I submitted my writing sample at around 10:30 PM EST on Nov. 21 but did not receive an "out of office" response like the previous poster did.

[Anonymous User]

Sent my writing sample 11/20 and got my interview invitation yesterday 12/13.

[Anonymous User]

I sent my writing sample on Nov. 19th. I haven't heard anything yet.

[autonomousanonymous]

I purposefully didn't want to post about getting the interview before I had seen others who posted about it here because I did not want to sound the alarm and add to anyone's anxieties. But the alarm has been rung, though I agree that in the past it seems that interviews go out in waves, so there is still plenty of time for many to get interviews. I really appreciate everyone sharing before though so I will share mine too.

Submitted 11/20 (due 11/21), received the interview invite 12/10, for an interview date of 1/6. Last name is not in the beginning of the alphabet, so the previous theories of last name or the date you submit the essays I don't think hold up. I had read that its a point system based on your first round of resume and cover letter, and then on the second round of the essays, and I think that must be right. (*Killed* myself over the essays, wrote, rewrote, threw away, started a new, felt super confident, submitted, then found a minor grammatical error afterwards, panicked debating whether i should resubmit with a corrected version vs lose my "place in line" (if there is one), dove into the deep questioning of how I did all of it, then checked this blog and my email 8x a day until Tuesday came around and gave me what feels like the relief of a lifetime.)

Does anyone know for the interview, do you get scored all over again, or if you somewhat bomb the interview, can you still have a shot of getting an offer if your points from the other rounds are high enough?

[Anonymous User]

So if I still haven’t received an invite that means I’m out? Or is it possible that they will continue contacting people this week?

[Anonymous User]

So if I still haven’t received an invite that means I’m out? Or is it possible that they will continue contacting people this week?

not necessarily. I was told that they will continue to contact people in January as well. Perhaps this is for the March class, and the folks who will get notified in January will be part of the May class.

[AnonLawStudent]

So if I still haven’t received an invite that means I’m out? Or is it possible that they will continue contacting people this week?

not necessarily. I was told that they will continue to contact people in January as well. Perhaps this is for the March class, and the folks who will get notified in January will be part of the May class.

Great! I don’t want to get my hopes up too high but I was very excited about this opportunity, so it’s nice to hear that there is still a chance. Congrats and good luck to everyone who got an invite!

[Anonymous User]

...
*Killed* myself over the essays, wrote, rewrote, threw away, started a new
...

Good on you for taking your time and doing your best to make the essays perfect. I want to ask a question, but please know that this is not a knock at your dedication. Was the drive for perfection (1) your modus operandi, (2) influenced by historic grading by the USPTO, or (3) simply done out of an abundance of caution?

To me, the essays prompts seemed to be especially boring and highly common interview questions. My personal guess was that the USPTO asked those question to get them out of the way so they can ask its applicants more pointed questions at the in-person interview. My essay read more like an extended cover letter, which is how I interpreted (right or wrong) the purpose of the essays. (I did receive an invite to interview).

To anyone who knows the content of the interviews: are the questions highly pointed? Such as trademark-specific questions and higher-level employment questions to assess reliability and ease of assimilation. Or is the USPTO process closer to typical law firms interviews with a lot of boiler-plate questions?

[Anonymous User]

For anyone who has gone through this process already, what is the difference between the first round of interviews and second round of interviews? Do the interviewers from the first round also participate in the interview panels for the second round?

[Anonymous User]

...
*Killed* myself over the essays, wrote, rewrote, threw away, started a new
...

Good on you for taking your time and doing your best to make the essays perfect. I want to ask a question, but please know that this is not a knock at your dedication. Was the drive for perfection (1) your modus operandi, (2) influenced by historic grading by the USPTO, or (3) simply done out of an abundance of caution?

To me, the essays prompts seemed to be especially boring and highly common interview questions. My personal guess was that the USPTO asked those question to get them out of the way so they can ask its applicants more pointed questions at the in-person interview. My essay read more like an extended cover letter, which is how I interpreted (right or wrong) the purpose of the essays. (I did receive an invite to interview).

To anyone who knows the content of the interviews: are the questions highly pointed? Such as trademark-specific questions and higher-level employment questions to assess reliability and ease of assimilation. Or is the USPTO process closer to typical law firms interviews with a lot of boiler-plate questions?

The interviews are a mix. For example, they will ask you about things on your resume like most interviews would and ask you to point to examples of a time you encountered a problem and how you solved it, things like that. They ask a lot of on the spot questions, like do you prefer working independently or with others, how will you manage your case load, the job is fairly repetitive and how will you deal with that, and so forth. I recall it being fairly hard on the spot but the key is to be confident and, at least for me, point to examples and answer to the best of your ability. (Which I assume helped me land the job).

I would say it wasn't quite a typical law firm interview, as I felt the questions were different than a lot of what I encountered during those, but they weren't terrible or totally out of left field.

As to the question about rounds, unless something changed recently, there is only one interview with a panel of 7-9 attorneys (at least, such was the case a year ago). It's fairly fast, my interview was just around 30 minutes and I had no idea how it went until I got the offer. It was mostly 1-2 attorneys asking the vast majority of questions, with a few chiming in here and there.

[S.P.F. 30]

Thanks for the insight. Would you mind briefly sharing how your first year went?

[Anonymous User]

Sure. In general, my first year has been pleasant. I was mildly concerned based upon some of the things I read on here, but those concerns have really seemed unwarranted for the most part. For example, meeting production requirements seemed daunting but, so far, hasn't been an issue. As others have mentioned, there have been adjustments to those requirements recently, so in a lot of ways, it's still a little early to tell how that will affect things in the long run. Your requirements increase as your GS level increases.

Overall, I would say it's a good job and I enjoy it most days. Generally the time flies while I am working, which is definitely a plus. The initial training is fairly mundane at times, but I'm the type that learns better by doing. After about 6 months things really start to click. I think the hardest part is that for the first two years, you constantly have a mentor who reviews your work. As you progress (approximately 6 months, 1 year, and 2 years), you'll get more authority to do things independently. That being said, having a mentor can be incredibly frustrating because their opinion may be different than yours and you're typically waiting on them to return things to you. I find this one of the must challenging aspects of the job, mainly because some days it feels like you're fighting for every decision you make. It ultimately comes down to the mentor you have though (I've heard it's different depending upon whether or not you're in a training office. Apparently the training offices rotate mentors while the other offices do not, but I could be mistaken).

[SatoshiG2]

As people are planning their lives around what they read here, I thought I would add my two cents. For many first and second year TM examiners, this is simply not a 40-hour a week job. My guess is that well over half of this group routinely works more than 40 hours a week, and some seem to be working 50 hours a week at least some weeks, especially near the end of the quarter. Only a few folks are working these extra hours to earn bonuses, so for most, those extra hours are entirely uncompensated. The production requirements driving all of this stem from a new Performance Appraisal Plan which has been kicking in over the last few months and into 2020. On the other hand, I'd say at least a third of this group manages to get its work done in a standard forty hour week. (I don't have exact numbers, and others may disagree.) Clearly some are able to make this job work for them, while for a substantial number of others, it is more of a struggle. My advice is this: if you have your heart set on working no more than 40 hours a week, ask yourself how big a deal working substantially longer hours for the same basic compensation might be to you.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with Satoshi. The job is really fun and the days fly by! Direct managers are also great and supportive. The one thing I wish I knew about was the upper management (our Boss' bosses). They negotiated a new PAP which determines almost everything about our job, including production requirements. Management does not care about the day to day lives of attorneys. They got everything they wanted in the negotiations and now are numbers are way higher. Fact: Most attorneys do work more than 40 hours and that was under the OLD PAP. With the new PAP, we will be working much more. It is a great job and maybe there will be new management in the future on the 10th floor. Morale is really low at the agency now (never was before in my tenure there!) and over 50% of attorneys disapproved of higher management in the federal survey. It is a great job if you really like trademarks and the registration process. But this is not the great place to work that it once was.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you everyone for all the information. For the people who currently work there, could you please explain the production requirements in more details? Is it something like this: you are expected to complete a trademark application in 5 hours, so if you work 40 hours and do 7 applications your production rate is 35/40, 87%? Or is it a different calculation? Also, what production are you expected to have as a GS11, GS12 etc? Thank you again!

[Anonymous User]

Sure. The production requirement isn't done the way you mention. Rather, each application is assigned a number of points (2 per class). You get 1 point when you take initial action on a file and 1 point when you take final action (either approving or abandoning) a file (2 at once if you approve a file as the first action). Unfortunately since the numbers have changed recently, I don't recall off the top of my head what they are (but as others have mentioned, they also adjust, so if you take leave or there's a holiday, the number required is reduced). The production requirement results in a rating of 1-5 (1 being the worst, 5 being best, 3 being fully acceptable). A 3 is sort of the baseline for what you're expected to meet. Management tracks these numbers as do the system, so you can actively see how many points you currently have and reports are sent to you after each biweek.

The requirements are adjusted somewhat for your first few quarters. (When I started, my first quarter was 180, I think the second was 425?, and then from there onward followed the normal PAP). These numbers may have changed under the new PAP though.

I would say on average, I think the expected rate is about 8 applications a day (assuming they are single class, etc) to hit a 5 (generally, for a GS9/11, with a lot of oversimplification). That may sound scary, but the system is much more complicated than just the above, you'll receive responses to things (which you either have to respond to or they put the application in condition for approval). You'll have things abandon. You'll have applications that are multiple classes and therefore worth more point and generally less work than the same amount of individual applications (which can be good or bad). There are good weeks and bad weeks.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you. Some people mentioned working 40+ hours without additional compensation. Is there no overtime pay or comp time available if you're working 40+?

[Anonymous User]

Very rare. The point is that you have to meet quota. Even more so during the probationary period or if you want to succeed long term. When you don't meet quota you have to work overtime to make that quota. So you work hours that you won't get compensated for. Similar to the VA and SSA jobs, this job has become a numbers game with the new management. I'm hoping things change soon there but like i said in a previous post Morale is pretty low at the moment. I want to be honest with those seriously considering spending their career here.

[Anonymous User]

Many experienced trademark examiners are finding that production levels that were considered "outstanding" under the previous Performance Appraisal Plan are now rated two or even three three levels lower under the new one. Management imposed this substantial boost to production requirements in 2019 (along with other changes harmful to examiners that are too technical to get into here) without offering any increase in pay. This is not the job it was a few years ago.

[Anonymous User]

So is there anyone else still out there, like myself, that hasn't gotten an interview invite but also hasn't had their status change from "referred" to "referred but not selected" yet? I am pretty sure since no invite to interview has come yet, that I'm out of the running, but I just wanted to see if anyone's has changed yet at all to say that they weren't selected?

[Anonymous User]

So is there anyone else still out there, like myself, that hasn't gotten an interview invite but also hasn't had their status change from "referred" to "referred but not selected" yet? I am pretty sure since no invite to interview has come yet, that I'm out of the running, but I just wanted to see if anyone's has changed yet at all to say that they weren't selected?

My status hasn’t changed and I also didn’t get an invite. It will probably be a while before they update it. Someone posted earlier that they might still be sending out invites in January. So we might still be in the running...

[Anonymous User]

When is everyone's interview? Mine is Jan. 10th. Wondering if we can figure out how long the interview period is (1 week, 2 weeks etc).

[Anonymous User]

When is everyone's interview? Mine is Jan. 10th. Wondering if we can figure out how long the interview period is (1 week, 2 weeks etc).

My interview is Jan. 13