Military Law Forum

[Patrick Bateman]

@nomargfan5 response:

Hi all. I applied for the Air Force DAP August board and was wondering if anyone has gotten news yet. It seems like the board has had some policy changes over the last month or so on how and when applicants will hear. The SJA I interviewed with told me I should hear in about 3 weeks, but the air force website, which changed in the last little bit, says about 6 weeks.

This is my first time posting here, I am just starting to get a bit antsy. Also, does anyone know how you hear? If you get in, the SJA you interviewed with calls, correct?

Thanks for the help.

The selection list was posted last Friday (only JAGs can access the list). If you have not received a call from the SJA by now, you probably did not make the cut. As with all boards, calls go out to the selectees from the interviewing SJA, letters go to non-selects.

http://airforceots.com/portal/modules.p ... 1&start=45

[Baylan]

I'm trying to get everything in line for an AF GLP application this year, but for the absolute life of me cannot find a few of the forms required. I know I'm a bit early in the whole thing, but this has kind of become my "dream job" in the past year or so, and serves as motivation. My friend, a brand spanking new 2d Lt. gave me an old Air Force JAG mouse pad which now sits as a daily reminder of what I'm working for...

In any case, my google fu, and searching-the-AF-websites-fu fails at finding: AF Forms 1758, 1760, and 2030. Any idea where I could/should find them?

[allAF]

I'm trying to get everything in line for an AF GLP application this year, but for the absolute life of me cannot find a few of the forms required. I know I'm a bit early in the whole thing, but this has kind of become my "dream job" in the past year or so, and serves as motivation. My friend, a brand spanking new 2d Lt. gave me an old Air Force JAG mouse pad which now sits as a daily reminder of what I'm working for...

In any case, my google fu, and searching-the-AF-websites-fu fails at finding: AF Forms 1758, 1760, and 2030. Any idea where I could/should find them?

When you visit the AF JAG recruiting site (--LinkRemoved--), go to the "Apply" section and navigate your way to information about the GLP program. On the GLP screen, there is a link at the bottom left saying Apply. Click that, and you will download a PDF document that has a checklist of all the application items. When you open that PDF, it will also include ALL of the other forms that you have to fill out for your application. (When I attempted this, the document opened in a window with two frames. The bottom frame contained "links" to the additional forms, which aren't really links but just open up the document that you want.) The AF JAG site has been recently updated, so if you downloaded your GLP application over a month ago, get the new version and you should be all set.

Best of luck to you in the application process!

[Rocktober2007]

I think I've found a glitch with the Army JAG online application. The instructions for Part D for the undergraduate education section say to include information about class rank. However, when you click "add school," the box that pops up does not provide a space to give class rank. When you go to get a print out of your application, the option for class rank is shown next to your school, but is blank (since there was no place to enter it).

Anyone else run into this and know how to fix it? I'll call JARO if no one has figured it out.

[Rocktober2007]

Our school has OCI slots for both Army and Air Force interviews. My understanding from previous posts in this thread is that these are NOT field screening interviews that will count towards application to summer programs, OYCP, etc. Is that still correct, and so will I have to arrange an additional interview for both the Army and Air Force if I wish to apply for their summer programs? Also, is it still good to do these interviews even if they don't "count" towards your application? Doesn't really matter, I guess, as I will do either or both if they select me, but I wasn't quite sure what to expect and/or try to get out of it.

The Army instructions say to interview with the FSO visiting your school for OCI. Only schedule an interview yourself if an FSO is not visiting your school.

Edit: That's for the active duty application at least. Not sure if it's the same for the summer intern program.

[Connelly]

Our school has OCI slots for both Army and Air Force interviews. My understanding from previous posts in this thread is that these are NOT field screening interviews that will count towards application to summer programs, OYCP, etc. Is that still correct, and so will I have to arrange an additional interview for both the Army and Air Force if I wish to apply for their summer programs? Also, is it still good to do these interviews even if they don't "count" towards your application? Doesn't really matter, I guess, as I will do either or both if they select me, but I wasn't quite sure what to expect and/or try to get out of it.

The Army instructions say to interview with the FSO visiting your school for OCI. Only schedule an interview yourself if an FSO is not visiting your school.

Edit: That's for the active duty application at least. Not sure if it's the same for the summer intern program.

I believe the summer intern program says the same thing. I was just wondering if the OCI visit was officially a visit for an FSO interview that would qualify, or if it was an informational interview like the Air Force does when they still require a separate interview with a SJA. Here's hoping I get selected for one of the OCI slots.

[nomargfan5]

@ Langlang

I found out Tuesday that I was accepted! I received both a phone call from my SJA and a letter in the mail. Best of luck to you!

[nomargfan5]

Bateman:

I'm really interested in doing a lot of military justice. What are the top 10 or so bases with the biggest caseload in military justice?

Thanks!

[Patrick Bateman]

Bateman:

I'm really interested in doing a lot of military justice. What are the top 10 or so bases with the biggest caseload in military justice?

Thanks!

You should call JAX directly to get the most up to date figures.

Generally your ACC and AMC bases are your best bets. Kessler, Randolph, and Lackland in AETC typically do an ton of courts. Nellis (ACC) has a high court volume at the moment as well.

Avoid Space Command and Material Command bases.

[Rocktober2007]

Navy JAG Interviews

How difficult/easy is it to schedule an interview?

The application says you need to submit your application first before requesting an interview. I'm waiting for my final letter of recommendation to come in and I'm getting a little nervous about the deadline getting closer. If I get the letter by the end of this week and submit my application this weekend, should I have any trouble scheduling an interview?

Thanks

[Mroberts3]

Hey guys,

I posted in this thread before and got some great info, so I'm back for more. I've decided to apply to the GLP this year. My school has an AFROTC detachment, and I plan on talking to them soon to get the ball rolling. I think I have a good handle on the steps required/time-line for the GLP, so now I've turned my attention to the application package itself.

First off, what does one usually write their motivational statement about? I was confused about what a personal statement for law school was supposed to be, but once I read a few and saw what people said I think I was able to write a pretty good one. If anyone could share their JAG statement or just tell me about it, that would be awesome.

Second, where should I get LORs from? As a 1L who took a year off, I'm a little unsure. Law profs will only have had me for a semester. Any bosses will have only had me for a year (and that year ended 6 months ago). UG professors haven't seen me for a year and a half...you get the idea. People seem to have been able to get current or former JAGs to write LORs for them -- how did you do that? I'm hoping that the DAP people simply have better applications overall and that I'm psyching myself out.

Finally, how do you construct your resume to focus on JAG? I only have a couple of things that they will remotely care about. 1) Volunteered on my year off for the Civil Air Patrol 2) have had my pilot's license since high school (not that they care about JAGs flying, but I think it shows dedication and maturity). 3) an internship at the City Attorney's office one summer of UG. 4) I did mock trial (but this was HS). I also filled in at a law office as a file clerk -- nothing special. Other than that it was random jobs over the summer/year off to make money. I worked part time in UG, but it was just a throwaway student type job. Any advice here? I just feel like such a civilian...

Last thing has been discussed several times. What effect does school rank have exactly? I'm at a 20-14 school, but without grades I just feel like I have no idea where I stand. I'd like to think rank helps me some -- like would I still have a chance if I were at median?

Any advice on making my application to the GLP as good as it can be would be much appreciated!


I know a lot of these questions are probably in this thread somewhere and seem repetitive, so I'll keep looking back through to see if I missed an answer to one of my questions.

[paladinlaw]

airforceots.com is a great venue to find many of these answers.

[Groundie]

The Army isn't coming to my school's oci for the first time.

[Rocktober2007]

The Army isn't coming to my school's oci for the first time.

The Navy isn't coming to my school even though they've been here the last two years. Now scrambling to schedule an interview myself.

[Dominus]

Wow... It took me about 10 hours to thoroughly read through the whole thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, but especially to PB and Rotor as I feel so much more informed now about JAGC and everything that being a JAG entails.
I actually just started my freshman year of undergrad and I'm just wondering if what you do in undergrad holds any weight as far as your application to either GLP, OYCP or DAP goes, or is it mostly what you do in LS that matters? Also, what steps can I take now that will make me a better candidate in the future? I know that I have a long way to go before I even apply to these programs but hey there is nothing wrong with being a little proactive.

On a somewhat unrelated note, when I started reading this thread a couple days ago I was mainly looking into the Army, but it seems that Patrick Bateman has inadvertently convinced me that the Air Force is the way to go...Just wanted to throw that out there

- Dom

[Patrick Bateman]

Wow... It took me about 10 hours to thoroughly read through the whole thread. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, but especially to PB and Rotor as I feel so much more informed now about JAGC and everything that being a JAG entails.
I actually just started my freshman year of undergrad and I'm just wondering if what you do in undergrad holds any weight as far as your application to either GLP, OYCP or DAP goes, or is it mostly what you do in LS that matters? Also, what steps can I take now that will make me a better candidate in the future? I know that I have a long way to go before I even apply to these programs but hey there is nothing wrong with being a little proactive.

On a somewhat unrelated note, when I started reading this thread a couple days ago I was mainly looking into the Army, but it seems that Patrick Bateman has inadvertently convinced me that the Air Force is the way to go...Just wanted to throw that out there

- Dom

Congrats on making an excellent life decision, on the Air Force's 63d birthday no less. This is the post I hope JAX sees if they monitor these threads. Air Power!

I don't think your undergrad in terms of major will make any real difference. Find something that you will do well in and you will enjoy. When I was a pre-law adviser I dealt with dozens of former pre-med and engineering students who should have never been in those majors in the first place (generally they were there because Mom and Dad wanted them there). As a result, their GPAs suffered irreparable harm that hurt them for law admissions. Get your GPA as high as possible. Also, and this is something I told all of my former students, stay out of trouble. If you get arrested, it is something you will be disclosing to law schools, your state bar, the Air Force, security clearance investigators, etc. It is not a fun thing to do. If you get arrested for drugs/alcohol, you can pretty much kiss your Captain's bars goodbye.

Volunteer with anything dealing with public service. Get involved. Don't be someone that pisses away four years of potential in a frat. If you can get involved with speech/debate/trial team - anything that will give you the foundation to be a good public speaker, that will pay dividends later. You can also get fit now. A strong aerobic/cardiovascular base can take years to build. Start now and you'll be fit to fight by the time you commission.

Best of luck.

[Dominus]

Thanks for the advice My major at the moment is Philosophy so I think I'm good as far as majors go for pre law stuff. Also I recently graduated from a nationally recognized high school speech and debate team and having participated in over 30 tournaments over my 4 years, my public speaking skills are pretty damn solid. That being said I'm still planning on joining my college's speech and debate team, as well as volunteering and all that jazz..

Just one more question on my mind.. What is your opinion on choosing what law school to go to,specifically keeping in mind my goal for getting commissioned down the road? From what I've read in this thread there is a wide variety of alums from different LS's, so I know its not the T14 or bust type thing like biglaw.But if one was given the opportunity to go to a T14 and have to take out huge loans to attend, versus going to a t2 or t3 with a full ride, or even a partial scholarship which would be the wise choice? Do you find that the "go to the best school you're accepted to" philosophy is correct? Or should one be more concerned with their financial future as opposed to being 180K in debt?

Any insight you can provide will be greatly appreciated, and thanks again!

-Dom

[lukeatomic]

Applied for Oct board for AF.

Waiting rather impatiently for the new month.

[GatorStudent]

Applied for Oct board for AF.

Waiting rather impatiently for the new month.

Same here. Good luck!

[Patrick Bateman]

Hey guys,

I posted in this thread before and got some great info, so I'm back for more. I've decided to apply to the GLP this year. My school has an AFROTC detachment, and I plan on talking to them soon to get the ball rolling. I think I have a good handle on the steps required/time-line for the GLP, so now I've turned my attention to the application package itself.

First off, what does one usually write their motivational statement about? I was confused about what a personal statement for law school was supposed to be, but once I read a few and saw what people said I think I was able to write a pretty good one. If anyone could share their JAG statement or just tell me about it, that would be awesome.

Second, where should I get LORs from? As a 1L who took a year off, I'm a little unsure. Law profs will only have had me for a semester. Any bosses will have only had me for a year (and that year ended 6 months ago). UG professors haven't seen me for a year and a half...you get the idea. People seem to have been able to get current or former JAGs to write LORs for them -- how did you do that? I'm hoping that the DAP people simply have better applications overall and that I'm psyching myself out.

Finally, how do you construct your resume to focus on JAG? I only have a couple of things that they will remotely care about. 1) Volunteered on my year off for the Civil Air Patrol 2) have had my pilot's license since high school (not that they care about JAGs flying, but I think it shows dedication and maturity). 3) an internship at the City Attorney's office one summer of UG. 4) I did mock trial (but this was HS). I also filled in at a law office as a file clerk -- nothing special. Other than that it was random jobs over the summer/year off to make money. I worked part time in UG, but it was just a throwaway student type job. Any advice here? I just feel like such a civilian...

Last thing has been discussed several times. What effect does school rank have exactly? I'm at a 20-14 school, but without grades I just feel like I have no idea where I stand. I'd like to think rank helps me some -- like would I still have a chance if I were at median?

Any advice on making my application to the GLP as good as it can be would be much appreciated!


I know a lot of these questions are probably in this thread somewhere and seem repetitive, so I'll keep looking back through to see if I missed an answer to one of my questions.

1. Motivational Statement: I can only comment on this based on my DAP statement - no idea if GLP asks for anything different. You will obviously want to cover why you want to serve and why you want to serve with AF JAG. I also think it is good idea to work in what you have to offer - everyone states why they should serve but neglect to address what you can do for the JAG Corps should they let you in.

2. You need people who know you well and can speak to your work ethic, character, and the like. I would avoid grasping at straws and end up with a bunch of "meh" LORs. You have to have been involved with something throughout college. Those supervisors/faculty/etc are probably going to be your best resource given what you've said. I would not get some random JAG to write you a LOR for the sh*ts & grins of having a JAG write you a LOR.

3. You don't have an idea of what "they will remotely care about" so quit trying to guess. Use your common sense here. Have a professional resume that you would give to a law firm or Fed Govt agency. You can include the CAP and PPL but would you include information about your high school ECs or random part-time college crap on a resume for a Vault level law firm?

4. Your law school's rank does not matter.

[Patrick Bateman]

Thanks for the advice My major at the moment is Philosophy so I think I'm good as far as majors go for pre law stuff. Also I recently graduated from a nationally recognized high school speech and debate team and having participated in over 30 tournaments over my 4 years, my public speaking skills are pretty damn solid. That being said I'm still planning on joining my college's speech and debate team, as well as volunteering and all that jazz..

Just one more question on my mind.. What is your opinion on choosing what law school to go to,specifically keeping in mind my goal for getting commissioned down the road? From what I've read in this thread there is a wide variety of alums from different LS's, so I know its not the T14 or bust type thing like biglaw.But if one was given the opportunity to go to a T14 and have to take out huge loans to attend, versus going to a t2 or t3 with a full ride, or even a partial scholarship which would be the wise choice? Do you find that the "go to the best school you're accepted to" philosophy is correct? Or should one be more concerned with their financial future as opposed to being 180K in debt?

Any insight you can provide will be greatly appreciated, and thanks again!

-Dom

It's a tough call. Minimizing your debt will make your time in service far more comfortable. Depending on your interests, your options if you end up separating from Active Duty at some point would be better if you have a bigger name school behind you. There is no guarantee you'll be commissioned (a million things can come up, from simply not being accepted into JAG to having a disqualifying medical condition), so you have to have a game plan that incorporates you not ending up in uniform.

You will have CCRA and Income Based Repayment which will take some pressure of your $65K of Stafford loans. Assuming I make my 10 years of qualifying payments, I'll probably be able to drop $40K of my Fed loans. Incoming JAGs also have the Loan Repayment Program (SLRP) which will take $65K of your loans over three years (though will eliminate you from IBR/ICR).

My personal stance is that I would want the flexibility a bigger name school provides, even if it means more loans.

[thebiggdawg55]

This question is specifically for Mr. Bateman or anyone else in this thread who is currently in any of the various military JAG programs:

The JAG websites make a big deal of the fact that you get 30 days of paid leave + 10 federal holidays every year. But what is the reality when it comes to using up your leave? Do you ever actually end up using it, or do you end up having to get cashed out for it because of deployments, assignments, or other obligations that prevent you from taking leave?

I have a friend who was an Army Airborne (not JAG, I know) who, when I brought up the 30 days of paid leave, responded by telling me he had 60 days of unused paid leave by the time he finished his 4 year stint.

Do you realistically ever use that leave up?

[Baylan]

This question is specifically for Mr. Bateman or anyone else in this thread who is currently in any of the various military JAG programs:

The JAG websites make a big deal of the fact that you get 30 days of paid leave + 10 federal holidays every year. But what is the reality when it comes to using up your leave? Do you ever actually end up using it, or do you end up having to get cashed out for it because of deployments, assignments, or other obligations that prevent you from taking leave?

I have a friend who was an Army Airborne (not JAG, I know) who, when I brought up the 30 days of paid leave, responded by telling me he had 60 days of unused paid leave by the time he finished his 4 year stint.

Do you realistically ever use that leave up?

Not a JAG, but I'll take a stab at your question anyway. 30 days leave is a lot of time. While weekends off-base and such you're required to take "leave" time, it still adds up to a huge portion of time, particularly when considering the 10 Federal Holidays as well.

That counts as some 30ish days off (not counting the weekend leave time), paid, that you get as a first year JAG. That is more than most European countries get as "holiday" time.

Most Americans aren't even close to comfortable to taking all that time off. Compare this to BigLaw life where you "may" get a vacation if things work out the right way. It is a vastly different perspective.

[helfer snooterbagon]

I spent 6 years on Active Duty with the Navy. Typically, you can use a lot of leave when you are transferring between billets. You can usually work it out with your detailer to have your report date be significantly later than your depart date. Also, if your relief arrives early, you can usually take a lot of leave after you have completed turnover.

[Patrick Bateman]

This question is specifically for Mr. Bateman or anyone else in this thread who is currently in any of the various military JAG programs:

The JAG websites make a big deal of the fact that you get 30 days of paid leave + 10 federal holidays every year. But what is the reality when it comes to using up your leave? Do you ever actually end up using it, or do you end up having to get cashed out for it because of deployments, assignments, or other obligations that prevent you from taking leave?

I have a friend who was an Army Airborne (not JAG, I know) who, when I brought up the 30 days of paid leave, responded by telling me he had 60 days of unused paid leave by the time he finished his 4 year stint.

Do you realistically ever use that leave up?

"Mr" Bateman? I'm a Captain; I work for a living.

At any given point, I usually have a 20 day balance +/-. I've never had an issue requesting leave as long as it did not put the office in a bind, e.g., we have 5 JAGs in our military justice division - I would not put in for leave during a time period when we'd have 1 already on Leave, 1 TDY, and 1 with a docketed court-martial as that would put an unreasonable strain on the 1 free attorney.

My leadership has been consistently solid at being pro-active in making sure we are taking leave. It does not look good for the SJA if during a staff meeting with the Wing Commander if the A1 points out that his/her officers all have a huge amount of accrued leave.

I also have that 20 days because it is easy not to take leave in the AF. Most three day weekends are met with a "family/training day" which turns them into four day weekends. We don't have to take leave if we stay within a certain geographic range, so you can get out of town without burning any leave.

Air Force JAG is as far from life in the Airborne Infantry as it gets. Don't get your military advice from service members in different career fields - stick with AF JAGs for your advice on being an AF JAG, Army JAGs for being an Army JAG, etc, etc.