Military Law Forum

[Eagle]

PS: Eagle: Love the Army JAG Zippo!

Thanks. Zippo makes lighters with branch insignia, but I couldn't find an Army JAG one.

I bought a black crackle zippo on amazon for $11 and then won an ebay bid on some old insignia for $4. The hardest part was removing the pin from the insignia with a pair of pliers before I applied the glue. I really like the way it turned out.

[3milesup]

Anyone have any problems applying to the Army JAG Reserve 14 May Board via the online application??

I had been working on my and was ready to submit it (around 3pm yesterday) when it suddenly disappeared. I then tried calling the JAG Accessions Office (of course, no one answered). So, I re-drafted and re-uploaded everything for the application, printed it, and submitted it. However, no verification that my application was submitted appeared on the "activity" area on the application portal.

I know there must be a server screw up somewhere, but, c'mon. I hope someone at Army JAGC can help me out Monday morning.

UPDATE: Spoke with JAG Recruiting this AM; Application was received. Whew!

[Undead_Ed]

Does anyone know if submitting my intent to accept a commission late will affect my chances of getting a preferred post? Is it first come first served or do they assign posts all at once?

Eagle,

I really doubt that submitting the letter of intent later than others will affect anything. I sent mine in the day I got it and still don't know anything definitive about start dates or duty assignments. However, they did tell me that I would get my JAOBC class assignment in June, and that the October class was already full.

BTW, good choice on picking Army. Don't want to get strung along by the Navy then not get it (Not to mention the fact that Army kicks @$$). Are you studying for the Bar right now?

[Paichka]

Learn this phrase: "Needs of the Army". If you accept that the Army owns you now, and they can literally send you to the ass end of nowhere, it'll be a pleasant surprise when they don't. (kind of kidding, kind of not :p)

What posts are you interested in, Eagle? I really liked Bragg and Stewart. I'm hoping that Fort Lewis (out in Washington) is available when I'm going through basic course. I think it's time to get off the East Coast.

[Eagle]

Eagle,

I really doubt that submitting the letter of intent later than others will affect anything. I sent mine in the day I got it and still don't know anything definitive about start dates or duty assignments. However, they did tell me that I would get my JAOBC class assignment in June, and that the October class was already full.

BTW, good choice on picking Army. Don't want to get strung along by the Navy then not get it (Not to mention the fact that Army kicks @$$). Are you studying for the Bar right now?

Thanks for the info and congrats to you as well for picking the Army! I agree---Army does "kick @$$."

I start studying for the bar tomorrow. My plan is to hit the gym early in the morning and then study for the bar at the local library. I'm doing an online version of Kaplan...I know it's kind of risky, but I consider myself an independent learner so I couldn't justify spending the extra money for the full-blown lecture course. I'm hoping that I'll be fine if I stick to my plan and avoid the internet as much as possible.

Are you studying for the bar right now?

[Eagle]

What posts are you interested in, Eagle? I really liked Bragg and Stewart. I'm hoping that Fort Lewis (out in Washington) is available when I'm going through basic course. I think it's time to get off the East Coast.

I want to try a lot of cases and also go some place where the deployment odds are higher. I hear the two go hand in hand. Fort Lewis would be nice, but I also wouldn't mind Ft. Hood, Ft. Bragg, Ft, Campbell, or even Germany. I talked to a former Army JAG who was stationed at a former SS barracks in Germany, Schweinfurt. He had a really good time in Germany, was able to travel throughout Europe, and ended up deploying for a year.

[chickemun]

I just finished my 2L year. I'm prior service, although it was in the reserves (ILARNG). I'm interested in Army and Air Force JAG. I would be comfortable with the Army because of my familiarity, but the Air Force is interesting also. I'll be 35 in December, though, and wouldn't sit for the bar until July. Does this completely preclude a career with the Air Force?

Also, how does nine years of prior service in the reserves equate to active duty? Does it have to be service as an officer or is there another computation for Enlisted/NCOs? The answers in these posts was a little fuzzy from my perspective (

Besides the nine years in the reserves, I have a year as an AmeriCorps VISTA and four months of Wildland Firefighting in Montana under my belt as well as other volunteer experiences. How much does public interest/ public service experience weigh in general? It is not a quantitative question, but a qualitative one.

I find these posts rather inspiring, but I worked at a legal and tax publishing company (3 years changed to a cube, technically hell after my past experiences) and after that ---everything is inspiring.

[Paichka]

What posts are you interested in, Eagle? I really liked Bragg and Stewart. I'm hoping that Fort Lewis (out in Washington) is available when I'm going through basic course. I think it's time to get off the East Coast.

I want to try a lot of cases and also go some place where the deployment odds are higher. I hear the two go hand in hand. Fort Lewis would be nice, but I also wouldn't mind Ft. Hood, Ft. Bragg, Ft, Campbell, or even Germany. I talked to a former Army JAG who was stationed at a former SS barracks in Germany, Schweinfurt. He had a really good time in Germany, was able to travel throughout Europe, and ended up deploying for a year.

Definitely do a big post, then. The units that tend to deploy the most are the 82nd Airborne (Fort Bragg), 10th Mountain (Fort Drum), 3rd Infantry Division (Fort Stewart), 4th Infantry Division (Fort Hood), 1st Cav (Carson now, IIRC) and 101st (Fort Campbell). I really like Bragg -- go there, and you have a better-than-average shot at getting to go to Airborne school. Jumping out of airplanes FTW! If I didn't have a kid, I'd totally do a tour OCONUS -- I've heard great things about Korea. I'm also partial to 3ID -- I spent 4.5 years on the Marne Express, and deployed a total of 27 months.

[Drew82abndiv]

I would recommend Ft. Bragg (obviously, look at my Avatar). I was in the 82nd for over four years and loved it. I was infantry and loved the 82nd's culture. You will def. deploy (I did twice). Any questions about Bragg or "Division" let me know.

Drew
CPT, IN
3-504 PIR - 2005-2006 (Iraq)
1-508 PIR - 2006-2008 (Afghanistan)

[theskippa10]

I want to try a lot of cases and also go some place where the deployment odds are higher. I hear the two go hand in hand. Fort Lewis would be nice, but I also wouldn't mind Ft. Hood, Ft. Bragg, Ft, Campbell, or even Germany. I talked to a former Army JAG who was stationed at a former SS barracks in Germany, Schweinfurt. He had a really good time in Germany, was able to travel throughout Europe, and ended up deploying for a year.

As an aside, my dad was stationed in Schweinfurt like 20 years ago (infantry, not JAG) and he said that the main town outside of the base, Bamberg I believe, is like the Catholic center of Germany. He said that it felt like everything was shut down almost every day for some random feast of a saint, and they have a ton of cathedrals

[Undead_Ed]

I start studying for the bar tomorrow. My plan is to hit the gym early in the morning and then study for the bar at the local library. I'm doing an online version of Kaplan...I know it's kind of risky, but I consider myself an independent learner so I couldn't justify spending the extra money for the full-blown lecture course. I'm hoping that I'll be fine if I stick to my plan and avoid the internet as much as possible.

Are you studying for the bar right now?

I'm doing Kaplan Complete Online myself. From what I hear, BarBri is good for the essays but it is only passable on the MBE. Now that Kaplan does an Essay program too (in certain states), I decided to go with that. You can do as many essays as you can stand, and they will grade all of them. However, I have found it to be pretty taxing and time consuming, and it seems to only be getting worse. Bar prep SUCKS.

As far as duty stations, I like the West because that's where my family is. I think I should be able to lock in FT Bliss because I hear nobody wants it. I'm liking the idea of FT Bragg also. Both are big bases with a lot going on, facts which should translate into lots of possibilities for experience (crimes?).

Hey Paichka, are you a FLEP?

[Paichka]

Yup.

As far as Bliss...whoo...better you than me, buddy. :-p It depends on if they have some duty positions open when you come through -- a couple of classes ago, ALL they had available was Fort Sill and Fort Drum. In general, though, the less popular a base, the easier it is to get.

[Eagle]

I'm doing Kaplan Complete Online myself. From what I hear, BarBri is good for the essays but it is only passable on the MBE. Now that Kaplan does an Essay program too (in certain states), I decided to go with that. You can do as many essays as you can stand, and they will grade all of them. However, I have found it to be pretty taxing and time consuming, and it seems to only be getting worse. Bar prep SUCKS.

That's what sold me on Kaplan as well. I just started yesterday and am finding the "Foundation" lectures pretty useless. The MBE practice book seems pretty helpful, though. Good luck to you!

[IrishBruin]

Hey everyone,

I was professionally recommended as an alternate during the last Navy JAG boards (my first time applying). Does anyone know anything about when, or if, people might start getting pulled off the alternate list?

Thanks a lot!

[Drew82abndiv]

Congrats Irish,

Not sure when they will start drawing from the alt. pool but it will depend on when people accept/decline their offer and whether anyone fails to get medically cleared. I hope you get pulled though and to see you in NJS!

Drew

[Eagle]

Congrats as well, Irish. This is the response I got when I emailed Navy JAG recruiting regarding if and when I would hear about being pulled off the alternate list:

"It's really hard for me to say; we regularly reach out to those who were selected as alternates to come onto active duty, but it varies from year to year as to the number and time as to when this happens."

This is someone's response from a similar question on Navy JAG's facebook page (discussion section):

"I know someone who was selected as an alternate and got in. From what I understand. His advice to me, should I ever find myself on the list, was to get all my paperwork done as quickly as possible. When they need someone from the alternate pool, they don't wait for the person at the top of the list to get their paperwork done. They apparently go through the list until they hit someone who is good to go, and that person gets the slot. So, get everything squared away with the recruiter ASAP. Your regional recruiter should be getting in touch with you soon."

Good luck!

[IrishBruin]

Big thanks to both of you. I still haven't heard from a recruiter re: paperwork or anything yet. Is this strange? I want to get in touch with the accessions people but don't want to come off as pushy.

[colemf]

I've read much of this thread and would first like to Patrick for all of your advice, I have learned much from this thread, my question: Do you think the conservative/liberal nature of some schools plays into the board's decesions? I'll be a 1L at Notre Dame, considered to be one of the most conservative law schools, and while i'm more of a moderate, I was wondering if is this could play to my advantage?

[Patrick Bateman]

I've read much of this thread and would first like to Patrick for all of your advice, I have learned much from this thread, my question: Do you think the conservative/liberal nature of some schools plays into the board's decesions? I'll be a 1L at Notre Dame, considered to be one of the most conservative law schools, and while i'm more of a moderate, I was wondering if is this could play to my advantage?

I really really doubt the board's read into possible political affiliation. I know current JAGs that served as staffers for candidates/politicians on both sides of the aisle. There are JAGs from the People's Republic of Berkeley and to Regent.

My office alone has one Boalt and one NYU, both pretty liberal law schools in my opinion.

Political leanings never come up in the work place (see Article 88, UCMJ) and realistically, there are so many applicants for each board that I really think most applicants are racked and stacked based on the major factors: GPA, work experience, SJA Recommendation, etc.

ND is a solid law school with a great rep - get as much litigation experience/training as possible and max out the GPA. The rest will take care of itself.

[Paichka]

And when you interview? It really helps to know what the JAGC does. Besides courts martial. Two of the officers in my office have served as FSOs, and they were telling me how ridiculous it is to have candidates come into the interview without a clue about what JAGs actually do on a day to day basis.

One was telling me horror stories about her interviewees, including:

(1) The guy who apparently thought she was a recruiter, and expected her to sell HIM on the JAGC. Like any interview, you are attempting to convince the nice FSO that you deserve to be selected for one of these highly competitive slots. If you want to be wined and dined, JAGC is not for you.

(2) The guy who told her he wasn't looking to work too hard, and really thought a nice 9-to-5 government job sounded like an easy paycheck. When she asked him how he felt about 15 months without a day off, his reply? "Duuuuuude, no!" Never "dude" your interviewer. That really should be self-evident, I think.

(3) She told me that she always asked the interviewees what they saw themselves doing downrange. This question was to see if they'd done their homework about what JAGs do -- if they said something like "labor and employment", she crossed them off her list. (Labor & Employment is a big part of JAG practice when we're stateside -- not so much downrange because you're working with fewer civilians) She said the biggest ding was when interviewees couldn't name anything other than military justice -- if they could actually talk intelligently about the other areas of JAG practice, such as operational law or contracting or environmental law, she would be far more likely to recommend them to the board.

[FeuerFrei]

.

[TBJAG]

I've read much of this thread and would first like to Patrick for all of your advice, I have learned much from this thread, my question: Do you think the conservative/liberal nature of some schools plays into the board's decesions? I'll be a 1L at Notre Dame, considered to be one of the most conservative law schools, and while i'm more of a moderate, I was wondering if is this could play to my advantage?

I wouldn't worry about it. Even if an SJA wanted to recommend only those of his/her political bent, he/she couldn't tell that from where you went to law school. Selection will have more to do with how you perform at whatever school you go to; if you are a high performer at one of the "hard" law schools, so much the better.

For a list of schools AF JAGs come from, go to the link below and scroll down to the last question. In case you were wondering, ND is on the list. I think you will be fine.

--LinkRemoved--

Never "dude" your interviewer.

Words to live by.

[Paichka]

It means "deployed". Iraq or Afghanistan, at the moment.

[Patrick Bateman]

And when you interview? It really helps to know what the JAGC does. Besides courts martial. Two of the officers in my office have served as FSOs, and they were telling me how ridiculous it is to have candidates come into the interview without a clue about what JAGs actually do on a day to day basis.

One was telling me horror stories about her interviewees, including:

(1) The guy who apparently thought she was a recruiter, and expected her to sell HIM on the JAGC. Like any interview, you are attempting to convince the nice FSO that you deserve to be selected for one of these highly competitive slots. If you want to be wined and dined, JAGC is not for you.

(2) The guy who told her he wasn't looking to work too hard, and really thought a nice 9-to-5 government job sounded like an easy paycheck. When she asked him how he felt about 15 months without a day off, his reply? "Duuuuuude, no!" Never "dude" your interviewer. That really should be self-evident, I think.

(3) She told me that she always asked the interviewees what they saw themselves doing downrange. This question was to see if they'd done their homework about what JAGs do -- if they said something like "labor and employment", she crossed them off her list. (Labor & Employment is a big part of JAG practice when we're stateside -- not so much downrange because you're working with fewer civilians) She said the biggest ding was when interviewees couldn't name anything other than military justice -- if they could actually talk intelligently about the other areas of JAG practice, such as operational law or contracting or environmental law, she would be far more likely to recommend them to the board.

Simply outstanding response. Even though this is written with the Army in mind, 99% of this is directly applicable to Air Force JAG. We don't have FSOs or the like, but as my office's recruiting POC, I have seen a ton of similar mistakes from applicants interviewing with my SJA.

Personally, I feel the issue noted in the top paragraph and #2 is a huge issue. A lot of applicants see us as like a DOJ sub-branch that happens to work for the Armed Forces, not realizing at all the officer component to what we do. They don't really get what service as an Armed Forces officer entails and that the captain's bars are more than just an indication of pay-grade.

[colemf]

Does anyone know what the stats are for Air Force JAG going to the "Front Lines" or at a camp near the action? While I understand there is a sort of rotation of responsibilties, I really would like to be in the thick of things at least at some point during my 4 years, if possible, or is this more of an Army JAG thing?