Military Law Forum

[Cole S. Law]

I have a question about serving and know I came to the right place:


I'm thinking about entering the Navy directly after UG. Once I'm there and put the initial 1-2 years in I will apply for the FLEP program, which would make the military responsible for paying 2 years of law school (at least I think this is the case). I know FLEP is selective so there's a 90 percent chance I won't get it. If I don't, I will finish my 4 year tour of duty, proud that I served my country. I will then apply for law school and use the GI Bill to pay for it.

Is this plan feasible? It seems like joining the Services is a win/win whether or not I get accepted into FLEP. Either the military pays for me to go to school while I am serving or they pay for it after my commitment through the GI Bill. And along the way I get to serve my country, something that would make me very proud.

Thanks for any input!!

While these things are "selective", very few people apply to them. If you have decent stats and a satisfactory service record, you have an excellent chance of being selected. Your chances quadruple if you go in as an officer v. enlisted. This is true for medals and educational programs.

F'in officers always nominating each other for medals.

[Rotor]

Is this plan feasible? It seems like joining the Services is a win/win whether or not I get accepted into FLEP. Either the military pays for me to go to school while I am serving or they pay for it after my commitment through the GI Bill. And along the way I get to serve my country, something that would make me very proud.

Your logic here is sound-- except I think your odds of getting FLEP are even lower than 10%, but maybe one of the Navy JAGs can comment on that part.

As for the GI Bill, it won't necessarily pay the whole thing. (FLEP is full ride plus your active duty pay & benefits). It will depend on the state rates, your school's tuition and whether or not they participate in the Yellow Ribbon Program. Also, if JAG is your #1 goal, there is no guarantee of getting it this way either, but the prior service is likely to help.

Finally, if you decide to join, be sure to not listen to the melodious siren song of the recruiter to "enlist". Not saying it will happen, but if he/she has a quota to meet, you never know. Only sign up for an officer program. Go fly planes or drive ships for a few years, be proud to serve, then go to law school. It's a good way to go!

[Rotor]

Clarification on above: I think FLEP is only available to officers, hence your need for an officer program.

I wasn't just trying so sound like one of those "F'ing officers."

[jhare]

Rotor: So how can I find out who participates in the yellow ribbon program?

[jhare]

Is this plan feasible? It seems like joining the Services is a win/win whether or not I get accepted into FLEP. Either the military pays for me to go to school while I am serving or they pay for it after my commitment through the GI Bill. And along the way I get to serve my country, something that would make me very proud.

Your logic here is sound-- except I think your odds of getting FLEP are even lower than 10%, but maybe one of the Navy JAGs can comment on that part.

As for the GI Bill, it won't necessarily pay the whole thing. (FLEP is full ride plus your active duty pay & benefits). It will depend on the state rates, your school's tuition and whether or not they participate in the Yellow Ribbon Program. Also, if JAG is your #1 goal, there is no guarantee of getting it this way either, but the prior service is likely to help.

Finally, if you decide to join, be sure to not listen to the melodious siren song of the recruiter to "enlist". Not saying it will happen, but if he/she has a quota to meet, you never know. Only sign up for an officer program. Go fly planes or drive ships for a few years, be proud to serve, then go to law school. It's a good way to go!

Sorry, and one more question: I know the GI Bill matches everything up to the highest tuition rate of a state school. Is this same thing true for Law School? For example, lets say I'm in Cali and Berkley costs 40k/year, UCLA 35k/yr, and Stanford 45k/yr. Since Berkley would be the most expensive STATE school, the GI bill will cover everything up to 40k/yr which means I'd be left to figure out how to pay for the 5k/yr that isn't covered at Stanford. Is this correct?

[TBJAG]

Rotor: So how can I find out who participates in the yellow ribbon program?

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/C ... t_2009.htm

[TBJAG]

I'm thinking about entering the Navy directly after UG. Once I'm there and put the initial 1-2 years in I will apply for the FLEP program, which would make the military responsible for paying 2 years of law school (at least I think this is the case). I know FLEP is selective so there's a 90 percent chance I won't get it. If I don't, I will finish my 4 year tour of duty, proud that I served my country. I will then apply for law school and use the GI Bill to pay for it.

Is this plan feasible? It seems like joining the Services is a win/win whether or not I get accepted into FLEP. Either the military pays for me to go to school while I am serving or they pay for it after my commitment through the GI Bill. And along the way I get to serve my country, something that would make me very proud.

If you want to be in the military regardless of whether you ever get to be a JAG, your plan to join and then go to law school through FLEP or the GI Bill is not a bad way to go. In fact, I have wished I had taken that route a few times over the past few years. You will probably be a line officer, which would benefit you in a possible career as a JAG: (1) you will probably have a better idea of what the operational Navy is doing and why they are doing it, and (2) you will have gone through the full OCS treatment - no 5 week OCS lite.

A couple of things to consider:
(1) The FLEP program is great . . . if you end up liking the Navy. I have a classmate who is in law school through the AF FLEP program; he has incurred an additional 6 or 7 year committment. I don't know if any of that time includes the balance of his original committment.

(2) Don't plan on being able to get into the FLEP program at the 1-2 year mark. For instance, if you were a pilot select, it would take a couple of years to train you before you ever hit the fleet. I don't know if they would let you switch designators that quickly. Also, surface warfare officers have an insane opstempo from what I have read. It sounds like an interesting career field, and you would definitely be busy. But, that first sea tour will keep you hopping for a while.

Check out this website. Surface warfare, in particular, has some very informative threads. FYI, you will have to join the site. http://www.usnavyocs.com/portal/index.php

Best of luck to you. If I had it to do over again, I would probably do exactly what you are thinking.

Edit: there is another program besides FLEP that will allow you to attend law school while on active duty. The military won't pay for it, but you may be able to use your GI Bill. I can't remember what it's called; it's basically like an extended leave. I am sure it is on this thread somewhere.

[Cole S. Law]

Is this plan feasible? It seems like joining the Services is a win/win whether or not I get accepted into FLEP. Either the military pays for me to go to school while I am serving or they pay for it after my commitment through the GI Bill. And along the way I get to serve my country, something that would make me very proud.

Your logic here is sound-- except I think your odds of getting FLEP are even lower than 10%, but maybe one of the Navy JAGs can comment on that part.

As for the GI Bill, it won't necessarily pay the whole thing. (FLEP is full ride plus your active duty pay & benefits). It will depend on the state rates, your school's tuition and whether or not they participate in the Yellow Ribbon Program. Also, if JAG is your #1 goal, there is no guarantee of getting it this way either, but the prior service is likely to help.

Finally, if you decide to join, be sure to not listen to the melodious siren song of the recruiter to "enlist". Not saying it will happen, but if he/she has a quota to meet, you never know. Only sign up for an officer program. Go fly planes or drive ships for a few years, be proud to serve, then go to law school. It's a good way to go!

Sorry, and one more question: I know the GI Bill matches everything up to the highest tuition rate of a state school. Is this same thing true for Law School? For example, lets say I'm in Cali and Berkley costs 40k/year, UCLA 35k/yr, and Stanford 45k/yr. Since Berkley would be the most expensive STATE school, the GI bill will cover everything up to 40k/yr which means I'd be left to figure out how to pay for the 5k/yr that isn't covered at Stanford. Is this correct?

All calculations are based on undergrad prices.

[jhare]

Is this plan feasible? It seems like joining the Services is a win/win whether or not I get accepted into FLEP. Either the military pays for me to go to school while I am serving or they pay for it after my commitment through the GI Bill. And along the way I get to serve my country, something that would make me very proud.

Your logic here is sound-- except I think your odds of getting FLEP are even lower than 10%, but maybe one of the Navy JAGs can comment on that part.

As for the GI Bill, it won't necessarily pay the whole thing. (FLEP is full ride plus your active duty pay & benefits). It will depend on the state rates, your school's tuition and whether or not they participate in the Yellow Ribbon Program. Also, if JAG is your #1 goal, there is no guarantee of getting it this way either, but the prior service is likely to help.

Finally, if you decide to join, be sure to not listen to the melodious siren song of the recruiter to "enlist". Not saying it will happen, but if he/she has a quota to meet, you never know. Only sign up for an officer program. Go fly planes or drive ships for a few years, be proud to serve, then go to law school. It's a good way to go!

Sorry, and one more question: I know the GI Bill matches everything up to the highest tuition rate of a state school. Is this same thing true for Law School? For example, lets say I'm in Cali and Berkley costs 40k/year, UCLA 35k/yr, and Stanford 45k/yr. Since Berkley would be the most expensive STATE school, the GI bill will cover everything up to 40k/yr which means I'd be left to figure out how to pay for the 5k/yr that isn't covered at Stanford. Is this correct?

All calculations are based on undergrad prices.

Oh, okay. So the GI bill would cover my law school costs up to the most expensive UG State School Tuition?

[jhare]

Edit: there is another program besides FLEP that will allow you to attend law school while on active duty. The military won't pay for it, but you may be able to use your GI Bill. I can't remember what it's called; it's basically like an extended leave. I am sure it is on this thread somewhere.

Thanks for all the information. I'd be interested to know what this program is.....

[Rotor]

Sorry, and one more question: I know the GI Bill matches everything up to the highest tuition rate of a state school. Is this same thing true for Law School? For example, lets say I'm in Cali and Berkley costs 40k/year, UCLA 35k/yr, and Stanford 45k/yr. Since Berkley would be the most expensive STATE school, the GI bill will cover everything up to 40k/yr which means I'd be left to figure out how to pay for the 5k/yr that isn't covered at Stanford. Is this correct?

***

Oh, okay. So the GI bill would cover my law school costs up to the most expensive UG State School Tuition?

Yes, but it's not that simple. It is based on the breakdown of tuition & fees. The link above was to YRP programs specifically-- there is loads more info at the main GI Bill on how to do the calculations. http://gibill.va.gov.

A note on the link above: Schools are in the process of telling the VA if they intend to participate next year. (e.g., Boalt is signing up for next year. But it's not yet on the table linked above).

Edit: clarity.

[ArmyVet07]

Sorry, and one more question: I know the GI Bill matches everything up to the highest tuition rate of a state school. Is this same thing true for Law School? For example, lets say I'm in Cali and Berkley costs 40k/year, UCLA 35k/yr, and Stanford 45k/yr. Since Berkley would be the most expensive STATE school, the GI bill will cover everything up to 40k/yr which means I'd be left to figure out how to pay for the 5k/yr that isn't covered at Stanford. Is this correct?

***

Oh, okay. So the GI bill would cover my law school costs up to the most expensive UG State School Tuition?

Yes, but it's not that simple. It is based on the breakdown of tuition & fees. The link above was to YRP programs specifically-- there is loads more info at the main GI Bill on how to do the calculations. http://gibill.va.gov.

A note on the link above: Schools are in the process of telling the VA if they intend to participate next year. (e.g., Boalt is signing up for next year. But it's not yet on the table linked above).

Edit: clarity.

Please note that the GI Bill covers the amount of undergrad tuition. Any difference between that and LS tuition would have to be covered by the Yellow Ribbon Program (if the school participates), loans, and other sources (i.e. you). The VA website will give you a breakdown by state.

[Eagle]

I called and Navy JAG board results come out next week. I have already been accepted to AD Army JAG and want to make my decision about which branch to join as soon as the Navy board results come out. Here are some questions I have regarding Navy JAG:

1) How does Army JAG compare to Navy JAG in terms of exit options? I'd like to one day have a shot at the US Attorney's office doing white collar crime.

2) Is the only difference in pay the fact that Army JAG has the 65K loan repayment and Navy JAG does not?

Thanks!

[brownshoe]

I called and Navy JAG board results come out next week. I have already been accepted to AD Army JAG and want to make my decision about which branch to join as soon as the Navy board results come out. Here are some questions I have regarding Navy JAG:

1) How does Army JAG compare to Navy JAG in terms of exit options? I'd like to one day have a shot at the US Attorney's office doing white collar crime.

2) Is the only difference in pay the fact that Army JAG has the 65K loan repayment and Navy JAG does not?

Thanks!

Not sure if this is the same deal as the Army, but the Navy does pay 60K in "continuation" bonuses if you agree (and are selected) to stay past your initial 4 year obligation. It's not a loan-repayment per se - it's just cash you can use for whatever you want.

[Rocky Estoppel]

I called and Navy JAG board results come out next week. I have already been accepted to AD Army JAG and want to make my decision about which branch to join as soon as the Navy board results come out. Here are some questions I have regarding Navy JAG:

1) How does Army JAG compare to Navy JAG in terms of exit options? I'd like to one day have a shot at the US Attorney's office doing white collar crime.

2) Is the only difference in pay the fact that Army JAG has the 65K loan repayment and Navy JAG does not?

Thanks!

Not sure if this is the same deal as the Army, but the Navy does pay 60K in "continuation" bonuses if you agree (and are selected) to stay past your initial 4 year obligation. It's not a loan-repayment per se - it's just cash you can use for whatever you want.

I know that Army has a similar program PLUS the 65k for Loan Repayment.

[brownshoe]

I know that Army has a similar program PLUS the 65k for Loan Repayment.

Wow, nice!

[jhare]

What are the deployments like for the Navy and Air Force? Like I said before I believe I am going to enter as an Officer and go from there. If there's somewhere else I should look for this info please let me know. I've gone through just about all these pages in Military Law thread but most info about deployments is Jags, not Officers.

thanks!

[brownshoe]

What are the deployments like for the Navy and Air Force? Like I said before I believe I am going to enter as an Officer and go from there. If there's somewhere else I should look for this info please let me know. I've gone through just about all these pages in Military Law thread but most info about deployments is Jags, not Officers.

thanks!

For Navy - during your first tour (3 years), you will not deploy unless you volunteer for an IA (Individual Augmentation). These are hard to get because there are few slots available and a lot of people want them. For your second tour, it is possilbe to go to sea as a SJA on a carrier, but these jobs are also very hard to get because they're generally very rewarding and career-enhancing. Bottom line is, you probably won't deploy unless you want to - and even then, you might not.

[jhare]

What are the deployments like for the Navy and Air Force? Like I said before I believe I am going to enter as an Officer and go from there. If there's somewhere else I should look for this info please let me know. I've gone through just about all these pages in Military Law thread but most info about deployments is Jags, not Officers.

thanks!

For Navy - during your first tour (3 years), you will not deploy unless you volunteer for an IA (Individual Augmentation). These are hard to get because there are few slots available and a lot of people want them. For your second tour, it is possilbe to go to sea as a SJA on a carrier, but these jobs are also very hard to get because they're generally very rewarding and career-enhancing. Bottom line is, you probably won't deploy unless you want to - and even then, you might not.

Is this true even for a straight Officer (not a JAG)?

Thanks for the info. What about some info on the Air Force?

[joemoviebuff]

Do you guys know if the military will still pay for your education if you join after law school? The work itself appeals to me, but this is a question I've pondered for a while.

[Rotor]

Is this true even for a straight Officer (not a JAG)?

Thanks for the info. What about some info on the Air Force?

You are right. This is JAG deployments. Unfortunately, your deployment schedules as a line officer will vary by your warfare specialty. It will also vary based on what unit you get assigned to and where it is in the cycle. In general, though, deployable units in the fleet response plan deploy for 6-12 months out of every 28-36 months.

I loved my deployments. A ship at sea doing the nation's business is extremely rewarding. IMO better than the expeditionary airwing deployments where they fly in/fly out of some dusty airfield in the middle of nowhere. Patrick Bateman (or another zoomie) will let you know what they think, I'm sure.

[Eagle]

Do you guys know if the military will still pay for your education if you join after law school? The work itself appeals to me, but this is a question I've pondered for a while.

My understanding is that Active Duty Army and Air Force now have 65K loan repayment programs that are paid out directly to law school lenders during the first tour. Navy does not have such a program, but does offer a 60K bonus to JAGs who agree to an additional four years after the initial four year service commitment.

I think your eligibility for the loan repayment for both Army and Air Force depends on when you receive your commission as opposed to when you finished law school. That said, I think it is much more difficult to get accepted into JAG as a practicing attorney than as a law student.

[brownshoe]

I loved my deployments. A ship at sea doing the nation's business is extremely rewarding.

Absolutely!

[Chiglaw]

Do you guys know if the military will still pay for your education if you join after law school? The work itself appeals to me, but this is a question I've pondered for a while.

My understanding is that Active Duty Army and Air Force now have 65K loan repayment programs that are paid out directly to law school lenders during the first tour. Navy does not have such a program, but does offer a 60K bonus to JAGs who agree to an additional four years after the initial four year service commitment.

I think your eligibility for the loan repayment for both Army and Air Force depends on when you receive your commission as opposed to when you finished law school. That said, I think it is much more difficult to get accepted into JAG as a practicing attorney than as a law student.

Has this recently changed? From the Air Force JAG website:

"Q: Do you have a student loan repayment program?
A: The Air Force does not have a tuition reimbursement program for JAG officers but there is a retention program that allows the service to pay up to $60,000 after you complete your initial service obligation to remain on active duty for an additional time period. The details are that after your initial four-year commitment, you sign up for another two years and you receive $20,000; then at the six-year point you can sign up for four more years and receive another $40,000. I note that you can use the money for whatever you want, i.e. loans, car, house, investments, etc. While we expect this robust retention program to remain for years to come, it is contingent on annual Congressional approval"

[Patrick Bateman]

Do you guys know if the military will still pay for your education if you join after law school? The work itself appeals to me, but this is a question I've pondered for a while.

My understanding is that Active Duty Army and Air Force now have 65K loan repayment programs that are paid out directly to law school lenders during the first tour. Navy does not have such a program, but does offer a 60K bonus to JAGs who agree to an additional four years after the initial four year service commitment.

I think your eligibility for the loan repayment for both Army and Air Force depends on when you receive your commission as opposed to when you finished law school. That said, I think it is much more difficult to get accepted into JAG as a practicing attorney than as a law student.

Has this recently changed? From the Air Force JAG website:

"Q: Do you have a student loan repayment program?
A: The Air Force does not have a tuition reimbursement program for JAG officers but there is a retention program that allows the service to pay up to $60,000 after you complete your initial service obligation to remain on active duty for an additional time period. The details are that after your initial four-year commitment, you sign up for another two years and you receive $20,000; then at the six-year point you can sign up for four more years and receive another $40,000. I note that you can use the money for whatever you want, i.e. loans, car, house, investments, etc. While we expect this robust retention program to remain for years to come, it is contingent on annual Congressional approval"

Yes, this will change very soon. It will mirror the Army's repayment program but there are no firm details yet available. I will post whenever more information becomes available.