Typical In-House Salary Package for Junior Lawyer? Forum

[Anonymous User]

What’s the consensus on when someone is no longer “junior”? Like, as a rising sixth year at this point is it fair to say that I’m not “junior” for in-house purposes anywhere at this point?

curious about this as well. at first i thought a lot of the responses were coming from folks i'd consider 'senior' but then i started looking into in house jobs and everywhere required 5+ years... unless i'm looking at the wrong resources/this is not the time of year juniors get picked up by companies, it would almost seem a 'junior' inhouse position would be a solid midlevel/early senior associate at a firm.

[Elston Gunn]

What’s the consensus on when someone is no longer “junior”? Like, as a rising sixth year at this point is it fair to say that I’m not “junior” for in-house purposes anywhere at this point?

curious about this as well. at first i thought a lot of the responses were coming from folks i'd consider 'senior' but then i started looking into in house jobs and everywhere required 5+ years... unless i'm looking at the wrong resources/this is not the time of year juniors get picked up by companies, it would almost seem a 'junior' inhouse position would be a solid midlevel/early senior associate at a firm.

There are definitely a good amount of in-house jobs that require only 3+ years of experience, but, yes, most require 5 or 6+. It is also very common on many legal teams for a lawyer 5 years out to be the the least experienced team member. I don’t know that the position is considered “junior” — all lawyers are relatively “senior” within a big company — but you won’t have any subordinates with JDs.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in insurance so I think the compensation is much lower than other industries. I came from a lower ranked school and firm so going in-house was difficult. Note this is not a "staff counsel" position or a captive law firm.

Position: Counsel (Corporate governance, contracts, compliance) at insurance company
Experience: 10 years total, but 7 years was spent litigating. I got this job through random luck
Salary: $135K +25% bonus + $6K stock
Hours: <40 hours/week. Work/life balance is great

Does anyone else work in insurance? Curious on comp.

[Anonymous User]

What’s the consensus on when someone is no longer “junior”? Like, as a rising sixth year at this point is it fair to say that I’m not “junior” for in-house purposes anywhere at this point?

curious about this as well. at first i thought a lot of the responses were coming from folks i'd consider 'senior' but then i started looking into in house jobs and everywhere required 5+ years... unless i'm looking at the wrong resources/this is not the time of year juniors get picked up by companies, it would almost seem a 'junior' inhouse position would be a solid midlevel/early senior associate at a firm.

There are definitely a good amount of in-house jobs that require only 3+ years of experience, but, yes, most require 5 or 6+. It is also very common on many legal teams for a lawyer 5 years out to be the the least experienced team member. I don’t know that the position is considered “junior” — all lawyers are relatively “senior” within a big company — but you won’t have any subordinates with JDs.

Thanks for clarifying! That was helpful

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

I'm in the middle of negotiating a move from biglaw (general corporate) to in-house and I very fortunately have a couple of live offers, and below is my preferred company's current offer:

Fully remote job for Bay Area corp
c/o 2018
Base: 195k
Bonus: 20% annual
Equity: 32k in ISOs over four years
Benefits: 5% 401k match, standard health benefits, 16 weeks maternity leave, unlimited vacation

The thing I'm least confident about is the equity. The company is young and growing, so there's a lot of potential upside in the coming years, but in these forums and in my own interviewing experience so far, it seems like the equity can be a lot higher (i.e. in the six figures). Is this smaller amount maybe more typical with a younger company? In terms of thinking for what to negotiate for, I feel like I can say "this isn't market" with a straight face.

[Anonymous User]

in my experience, this is market or market+ on base and bonus. Equity is highly variable, and the easiest for you to ask for more of (you're saying "I want to invest in you!"). It also costs the company the least.

Are you looking at $32k in options? Or is the 32k shares? When's the valuation from?

I'd say your total annual comp should be around 250 to be market

[Anonymous User]

in my experience, this is market or market+ on base and bonus. Equity is highly variable, and the easiest for you to ask for more of (you're saying "I want to invest in you!"). It also costs the company the least.

Are you looking at $32k in options? Or is the 32k shares? When's the valuation from?

I'd say your total annual comp should be around 250 to be market

Thanks for the comments! I appreciate the insight. The $32k is the value of the options based on the current share price. In reality there's a staggered four year vesting period (which I take to be pretty typical in the Valley), and of course the expectation is that the share value will increase over time. I get the sense that a slightly higher base and bonus isn't crazy to ask for, but I'm not sure what objective metric I can point to to say "you should be giving me twice as many options" or whatever the correct amount is.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know what Associate Corp Counsel range is at Amazon? Is $270k TC right if you come in at high end of the band?

I don’t know about it being the high end of the band but that sounds about right for base+equity from what I’ve heard from friends.

What exactly is the role they're paying $270 for? I've been hearing more like $230 as a 5th year potentially making the hop as Corp Counsel or right below.

[Anonymous User]

VP & AGC at Investment Bank
Class of 2017 M&A at V10
Base: $225k
Total Comp: $325k ($10k of $100k bonus will be in restricted stock vesting over 3 years)
Market: major markets

It will not be a 9-6 job (more closer to biglaw hours, although not as bad obviously) so I am not sure if I should take this.

[anonymous1905]

Still interviewing at a few places but currently have an offer at a public tech company with:

Base: 155K
Bonus: 15%
Equity: 50K over 4 years
c/o - 2018; corporate biglaw
pretty good WLB from what I've heard (9-6)

I'm not in a major market so I don't know if I'll find much better elsewhere. How do Banks tend to be with WLB when you're not on deals?

[BigFish]

Base: 290K
Bonus: 25%
Equity: 170K over 2 years
c/o - 2013; cybersecurity, data privacy
strictly 9-5

Full remote.

[lawschool04!]

Base: 290K
Bonus: 25%
Equity: 170K over 2 years
c/o - 2013; cybersecurity, data privacy
strictly 9-5

Full remote.

Were you in big law the whole time prior? Would love to learn more if you could send me a message.

[Anonymous User]

Still interviewing at a few places but currently have an offer at a public tech company with:

Base: 155K
Bonus: 15%
Equity: 50K over 4 years
c/o - 2018; corporate biglaw
pretty good WLB from what I've heard (9-6)

I'm not in a major market so I don't know if I'll find much better elsewhere. How do Banks tend to be with WLB when you're not on deals?

They are pretty bad for WLB for my experience. Get work on weekends, which you can take your time responding to depending on your assessment of how urgent, but bankers will keep sending you shit all night long after 6pm on weekdays too.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a c/o 2018 with biglaw experience in a major market.

Have an offer from a Silicon Valley late-stage tech co (maybe going public in the next 18-24 months), unicorn valuation. They’re offering $180k base and about $50k in options vesting over 4 years. Top of the line tech co tech benefits otherwise. How this generally sound?

[Anonymous User]

I’m a c/o 2018 with biglaw experience in a major market.

Have an offer from a Silicon Valley late-stage tech co (maybe going public in the next 18-24 months), unicorn valuation. They’re offering $180k base and about $50k in options vesting over 4 years. Top of the line tech co tech benefits otherwise. How this generally sound?

Depends what practice group you’re in and what other options you have. $50K over four years (so $12.5K a year) sounds really, really low. Base seems more or less normal for a private late stage start up.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a c/o 2018 with biglaw experience in a major market.

Have an offer from a Silicon Valley late-stage tech co (maybe going public in the next 18-24 months), unicorn valuation. They’re offering $180k base and about $50k in options vesting over 4 years. Top of the line tech co tech benefits otherwise. How this generally sound?

Probably depends a bit on your practice area in biglaw and your title at the company, but 200k is a reasonable floor for leaving biglaw at your level if you're a corporate associate. Options are hard to value - they're literally worthless if the company isn't a success, they're super valuable if it's truly a unicorn.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a c/o 2018 with biglaw experience in a major market.

Have an offer from a Silicon Valley late-stage tech co (maybe going public in the next 18-24 months), unicorn valuation. They’re offering $180k base and about $50k in options vesting over 4 years. Top of the line tech co tech benefits otherwise. How this generally sound?

Depends what practice group you’re in and what other options you have. $50K over four years (so $12.5K a year) sounds really, really low. Base seems more or less normal for a private late stage start up.

Agreed - for comparison, I’m class of 2019 and started a few months ago at a slightly earlier stage startup (also unicorn valuation but probably a bit further away from IPO) in a smaller/less expensive market at $190k base with $133k in options over four years.

[Anonymous User]

Current 3rd year in non-major market. Regional firm. ~$200k base and below-market bonus. Small raises year to year so gap widens a lot over time with standard biglaw scale. Regularly working across from standard biglaw firms and billable hours between 2100 and 2200 for past years. M&A/public co securities/general corporate focus.

In house opportunity at large public tech co in major east coast market (same focus).

$140k base
10% bonus
Options supposedly valued at $15k/year (getting clarity on specifics)
Getting clarity on WLB but seems likely to be a significant improvement
Fully remote

Seems low, right?

[Anonymous User]

Current 3rd year in non-major market. Regional firm. ~$200k base and below-market bonus. Small raises year to year so gap widens a lot over time with standard biglaw scale. Regularly working across from standard biglaw firms and billable hours between 2100 and 2200 for past years. M&A/public co securities/general corporate focus.

In house opportunity at large public tech co in major east coast market (same focus).

$140k base
10% bonus
Options supposedly valued at $15k/year (getting clarity on specifics)
Getting clarity on WLB but seems likely to be a significant improvement
Fully remote

Seems low, right?

Seems low, but preferable to your current position at the regional firm.

[Anonymous User]

Current 3rd year in non-major market. Regional firm. ~$200k base and below-market bonus. Small raises year to year so gap widens a lot over time with standard biglaw scale. Regularly working across from standard biglaw firms and billable hours between 2100 and 2200 for past years. M&A/public co securities/general corporate focus.

In house opportunity at large public tech co in major east coast market (same focus).

$140k base
10% bonus
Options supposedly valued at $15k/year (getting clarity on specifics)
Getting clarity on WLB but seems likely to be a significant improvement
Fully remote

Seems low, right?

Why not try to lateral into the major leagues? Seems like you’d have the right background and the comp bump would be significant. Also the lateral market still seems hot.

[Anonymous User]

Current 3rd year in non-major market. Regional firm. ~$200k base and below-market bonus. Small raises year to year so gap widens a lot over time with standard biglaw scale. Regularly working across from standard biglaw firms and billable hours between 2100 and 2200 for past years. M&A/public co securities/general corporate focus.

In house opportunity at large public tech co in major east coast market (same focus).

$140k base
10% bonus
Options supposedly valued at $15k/year (getting clarity on specifics)
Getting clarity on WLB but seems likely to be a significant improvement
Fully remote

Seems low, right?

Why not try to lateral into the major leagues? Seems like you’d have the right background and the comp bump would be significant. Also the lateral market still seems hot.

Probably will make that switch after bonus is paid if I don’t feel like the in house opps are good enough and will keep at that search. There are some V100 firms in the market, mostly smaller offices. The regional is ranked better than them in my areas and, when I joined, was only behind them on comp by a minimal amount as the V100s were not following NY scale in their local offices. There were also some other upsides of the regional versus those offices that I’ve found just aren’t that important over time.

Regional has not kept up with the times, while the local offices have moved either to or close to the latest NY scale. Don’t love the idea of starting over with new colleagues and generally interested in working less, so preference is in house. Did not make the lateral move in last year or so despite lots of contact about doing so because wanted to start looking in house once I became a third year and didn’t want to be starting somewhere new at the same time. Think it would be easy to make the switch and a few others from my group have. Others get retention bonuses to stay, so I could at least get that. Of course there are the fully remote options but less interested in those.

At the same time, don’t want to take too much of a cut and could stick it out a couple more years here or at one of those offices if there was going to be a huge benefit from doing so in terms of initial and long term in house comp. Would really like not to though to work less. Not interested in moving out of market except to a few smaller places where I would need to be full remote.

What would seem to be a reasonable counter on that initial offer? Move to 150 base and double the equity? Seems probably still low (esp relative to the lateral move option) but a bit less painful.

[Anonymous User]

I’m a c/o 2018 with biglaw experience in a major market.

Have an offer from a Silicon Valley late-stage tech co (maybe going public in the next 18-24 months), unicorn valuation. They’re offering $180k base and about $50k in options vesting over 4 years. Top of the line tech co tech benefits otherwise. How this generally sound?

Depends what practice group you’re in and what other options you have. $50K over four years (so $12.5K a year) sounds really, really low. Base seems more or less normal for a private late stage start up.

What do you think would be standard for an options package over 4 years (in dollar value) at a late stage unicorn startup? Team has about a half dozen attorneys, currently c/o 2018

[Anonymous User]

I’m a c/o 2018 with biglaw experience in a major market.

Have an offer from a Silicon Valley late-stage tech co (maybe going public in the next 18-24 months), unicorn valuation. They’re offering $180k base and about $50k in options vesting over 4 years. Top of the line tech co tech benefits otherwise. How this generally sound?

Depends what practice group you’re in and what other options you have. $50K over four years (so $12.5K a year) sounds really, really low. Base seems more or less normal for a private late stage start up.

On startup equity, what's standard to calculate the actual value of the shares off of - would it be the most recent preferred financing raise price that investors paid for the stock, or would it be the fair market value of the common stock (the strike price of the shares)? If the former, the number is closer to $100k vesting over 4 years (although obviously I'd have to pay the strike price so I wouldn't actually get all of that value) - if the latter, it would likely be that $50k number.

[Grunting7]

c/o 2019, was at a midsized firm for under 2 years. Currently at my first in house job at a financial services firm in NYC as regulatory counsel. 110 base, 10% bonus, 20k equity (took a hefty comp hit to go in house and before realizing I could have negotiated). Fully remote, super chill culture. Honestly work 20-25 hours a week. Underpaid for NYC, but WLB is really hard to beat.

Somehow landed two very different offers, both of which I am punching above my weight and I am certain I am not qualified for either but here we are.

Offer 1: Private Equity Megafund (Blackstone, KKR)
- Assistant VP in legal and compliance
- Base 175k. Bonus 65k. Eligible for carry in 2-3 years (I believe their carry is paid out over 7 years)
- in office M-Th
- culture is more 'suit and tie'. Definitely will be working more - interviewers outright said they work hard (though anywhere I will be working more since I barely work in my current position)

Offer 2: Big Tech, but not FAANG (Airbnb, Lyft, Microsoft etc)
- Privacy Counsel
- Base 145k, equity 40k/yr over 4 years, bonus 20k
- hybrid: 2/3 days in office
- free onsite breakfast/lunch and plenty of perks in the office
- culture appears to be pretty close to "Google" culture

Single and live in NYC, so my responsibilities are low. Seriously have no idea which offer to take.

PE:
Comp ceiling in PE seems to be much higher with carry (IF I actually end up getting it down the line). PE also seems to promote pretty quickly (every ~2 years) and there appears to be good mobility within the organization. Admittedly, having the megafund on my resume is something that is alluring, if that's worth anything.

Tech:
The tech culture and WLB is likely going to be better. Privacy Counsel --> Senior Privacy Counsel could take some time though. But privacy work is decently hot right now and will likely be for a few years and moving around to other tech in privacy roles shouldn't be an issue in the future.