Thanks Forum

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the help, all

[BrainsyK]

Yes, it's normal.

[Wubbles]

Doesn't seem odd for your stats. My suggestion would have been applying to more firms earlier on if you weren't planning to return to your summer firm, but I suppose it's too late for that advice. I'd go ahead and get out apps to the whole NLJ250 or so if you want some form of biglaw, a handful will say something like "reach out to us closer to graduation" and you should take them up on that.

[Anonymous User]

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[2013]

Does your resume say “received offer to return after graduation” or something for your SA position? If not, that may be a reason you are getting looked over. Also, if you were at an SA at a vault firm and you’re applying to “worse” firms, they may just assume you were no-offered.

I’d focus less on your resume and more on any sort of connections you may have to these cities/firms. Do more targeted mass mailing.

[Wubbles]

Following up to add that trying to pitch it as "trying to switch cities" will probably help more than just trying to switch firms, if you are at all interested in switching cities. Similarly you could pitch it as a practice area thing, i.e. you were getting pushed into lit (actually does happen at some firms) and want corporate so you are looking elsewhere

[Anonymous User]

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[The Lsat Airbender]

It’ll hurt you. Firms are going to wonder why they’d be any different.

[notinbiglaw]

Unfortunately, not having an offer in hand, whatever the reason, really hurts your app. I am also sorry to say 3L recruiting is quite competitive and a lot of people, with offers (some accepted offers) in hand, are also looking to upgrade or move. So you're really near bottom of the pile and should plan accordingly, especially if you're in Chicago (just because fewer positions available locally.)

I know most kids in your position at Columbia and NYU (assuming you're near the top of the bottom 1/3 and kind of close to median quintile) ended up with decent law (think close to Cravath in secondary markets, Fox Rothschilds in NJ for example) firms if they were geographically flexible or clerkships in more niche courts (think trade courts) that are good avenues to big law if they were willing to work for nearly free. The clerkships are mostly gotten through networking via professor recommendations and they are good avenues into biglaw.

[QContinuum]

I know this is already done and dusted, but I'm very confused. OP, I take it you did your 2L SA, but then, partway through the SA, you told the firm you didn't want to be considered for an offer to return after graduation? Why in blazes would you have done that? Even if you hated the firm for a very good reason - say, people were backstabbing each other left and right, partners were throwing objects at associates, whatever - wouldn't you have derived greater satisfaction from rejecting their permanent offer, instead of telling them not to consider hiring you back? And why would you think you would've had to "stick it out/fake it for a year"? You could've (should've) started on the 3L job hunt even during your SA, gotten that permanent offer, continued your 3L job hunt, then declined that offer upon landing an alternate offer. (Or, if you really felt that strongly about it, declined the offer shortly after getting it, so that you could note on your resume - or state when asked - that the offer was extended.)

I recognize this is a bit off-topic, but this whole chain of events is so red-flaggy, and OP's conduct is, at least based on the facts given, so mind-boggling that I wonder if there's some kind of reasoning or behavior here, something fixable, that's actively sabotaging OP's current job hunt.

[Halp]

I know this is already done and dusted, but I'm very confused. OP, I take it you did your 2L SA, but then, partway through the SA, you told the firm you didn't want to be considered for an offer to return after graduation? Why in blazes would you have done that? Even if you hated the firm for a very good reason - say, people were backstabbing each other left and right, partners were throwing objects at associates, whatever - wouldn't you have derived greater satisfaction from rejecting their permanent offer, instead of telling them not to consider hiring you back? And why would you think you would've had to "stick it out/fake it for a year"? You could've (should've) started on the 3L job hunt even during your SA, gotten that permanent offer, continued your 3L job hunt, then declined that offer upon landing an alternate offer. (Or, if you really felt that strongly about it, declined the offer shortly after getting it, so that you could note on your resume - or state when asked - that the offer was extended.)

I recognize this is a bit off-topic, but this whole chain of events is so red-flaggy, and OP's conduct is, at least based on the facts given, so mind-boggling that I wonder if there's some kind of reasoning or behavior here, something fixable, that's actively sabotaging OP's current job hunt.

Could just be a very straightforward (naive) approach. Sort of a “why waste anyone’s time if I KNOW I don’t want to work here - I’ll just be straight up” approach, combined with a lack of understanding what signals big firms look for.