Considering giving up before even taking the LSAT. Why can't I get logic games?! Forum

[senzasperanza]

So, I started studying for the LSAT in January. I have done a few RC and LR questions but have not studied for them at all except to familiarize myself with them. Logic games, however, are the bane of my existence and I have no made any meaningful progress since January. Well, I finally bit the bullet about a week ago and took a diagnostic. My scores were broken down as follows:

Logical reasoning: 21/25
Analytical reasoning: 3/23
Reading comprehension: 24/27
and Logical reasoning 22/26

The only reason I got the three analytical reasoning questions right is because some of them I didn't even have to diagram for; I just did process of elimination. Despite this, I've been studying logic games this whole time and still don't get it. Essentially, I have been trying to get through just one set of logic games since the beginning of January. I've watched, collectively, probably 45+ hours of logic game explanations at this point and read probably over 100 pages of the Logic Game Bible. I have pages and pages of failed chicken scratch diagrams that I give up on halfway through because I just stare at them. I'm trying to work through Khan Academy's LSAT course right now and literally cannot get more than 1 right on any logic game set when I have to do a logic games section. I just end up staring at the question and have no idea where to start after I do a very rudimentary diagram and feel like crying, so after 10+ minutes on each question (not set) I end up picking a random answer just to move on. Even when I read the explanations I still have no clue; it's like I'm reading an entirely different language.

Besides this I try to read everything I can online: diagramming and setting up game boards, making inferences, sequencing, ordering, etc. I just don't get it. At all. I've tried 7sage videos for weeks now as a supplement because I've heard good things. However, I find they speak too fast, I can't get what they're saying, and I'm not going to subscribe just to slow the videos down. I've tried watching a PowerScore introductory video; got lost. I tried LSAT Trainer; got lost (though his voice is oddly soothing! lol). I looked at YouTube videos; got lost. I'm on Khan Academy; am lost.

I feel like I have some sort of mental disability because once I diagram I don't understand what anything means. Yet, the diagrams themselves are correct-- I just cannot make inferences past the initial diagram and I keep looking back to the question stem which of course leaves me just as confused.

What's wrong with me? I'm considering just giving up. I refuse to go to law school without a significant scholarship (dat debt aversion doe) and I know the LSAT is everything so perhaps I'll just sit this one out. Maybe I'm just not cut out for it.

[Lone Wanderer]

Hi there!
Firstly, if you've started in January and you're already doing that well on LR and RC nothing is wrong with you and you are 100% cut out to do great on this test.

LG is hard at the beginning and it took me some time to get it down (I'm retaking so I don't have everything perfect), but what worked for me personally was doing the questions over and over a la pithypikes method where you learn the skeleton of each style of LG question. It sounds trivial, but maybe try starting with the basic linear questions and make sure you can get -0 on those regardless of time, then move onto advanced linear, grouping, etc.

Take some time off from it too. LG is hard, but not impossible to master and I think given your other numbers it's only a matter of time until you are at -0!

The LSAT guide I'm using:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... hp?t=41657

[senzasperanza]

Thank you very much for your kind reply.

But after careful thought I have decided that the LSAT is not for me and I am giving up. If I can't get a single question right in two months, I'm hopeless.

[Lone Wanderer]

While it is your decision, if law school is something that you are heart set on I wouldn't give up totally on the LSAT. Some time off can do well and there's no shame in a private tutor.
Alternatively, you can look into the GRE for admissions to some schools. The data is limited, but some people have gotten in with solely a GRE score.

[babyxmarine]

Thank you very much for your kind reply.

But after careful thought I have decided that the LSAT is not for me and I am giving up. If I can't get a single question right in two months, I'm hopeless.

Hey dont give up. I was also at the point where I wanted to give up. But I will keep going until I've exhausted everything. Myself and two others are going to get a study group together and get a study plan in motion. Honestly like the user above said, youve done a phenomenal job in the other sections. You've already cracked the important 2/3. If you are interested respond and let me know. We would love to share all resources we have with you. Looking forward to your message

[239840]

Thank you very much for your kind reply.

But after careful thought I have decided that the LSAT is not for me and I am giving up. If I can't get a single question right in two months, I'm hopeless.

Aww, don't give up. If you're serious about this, you can get past this! What I would recommend is the method the person above mentioned and called the "pithypike method." 7Sage calls the same process the "Foolproof Method." Really, if you could afford it, though, I'd highly recommend 7Sage's Ultimate+ package. That way you'll have every explanation (legally) and will be able to speed them up, slow them down, etc. I'd recommend, though, that you take a small break and get refocused and re-energized some, as it seems to me that you're letting this get to you too much and getting burned out and you might benefit from some time away. Ultimately, you need to go through 30-40 preptests' worth of LG sections and do them again and again until you're easily doing them in the time recommended by the 7Sage explanations guy (JY). If you do that as people recommend, you WILL improve. You may never go -0 consistently like some people do, but you should be able to get way better than you are right now at them.

I can totally relate as I felt the same way about LG and got frustrated because so many people on here and elsewhere will say things like "it's such an easily learnable section" and yadayada. In all actuality, while it's a section in which most people can improve drastically with some hard work, for many people it takes some serious time and effort to gain proficiency. So don't let what people say about its learnability bother you. You will get there at your own pace, I promise. Many people have been in the same spot you're in now.

Also, another reason I'd recommend 7Sage is because I find their recommendations/teachings for LG to be the most simplistic. Powerscore tends to recommend an approach that I - and definitely JY from 7Sage and many others - consider a bit overly robotic/mechanical. For something like sequencing you will need to develop an intuition for leaders and followers, etc. The way 7Sage teaches LG is just a lot simpler and more intuitive, in my opinion. You will see if you get it. Go through their curriculum for LG and practice a lot and you'll improve.

[LOL Skool]

So, I started studying for the LSAT in January. I have done a few RC and LR questions but have not studied for them at all except to familiarize myself with them. Logic games, however, are the bane of my existence and I have no made any meaningful progress since January. Well, I finally bit the bullet about a week ago and took a diagnostic. My scores were broken down as follows:

Logical reasoning: 21/25
Analytical reasoning: 3/23
Reading comprehension: 24/27
and Logical reasoning 22/26

The only reason I got the three analytical reasoning questions right is because some of them I didn't even have to diagram for; I just did process of elimination. Despite this, I've been studying logic games this whole time and still don't get it. Essentially, I have been trying to get through just one set of logic games since the beginning of January. I've watched, collectively, probably 45+ hours of logic game explanations at this point and read probably over 100 pages of the Logic Game Bible. I have pages and pages of failed chicken scratch diagrams that I give up on halfway through because I just stare at them. I'm trying to work through Khan Academy's LSAT course right now and literally cannot get more than 1 right on any logic game set when I have to do a logic games section. I just end up staring at the question and have no idea where to start after I do a very rudimentary diagram and feel like crying, so after 10+ minutes on each question (not set) I end up picking a random answer just to move on. Even when I read the explanations I still have no clue; it's like I'm reading an entirely different language.

Besides this I try to read everything I can online: diagramming and setting up game boards, making inferences, sequencing, ordering, etc. I just don't get it. At all. I've tried 7sage videos for weeks now as a supplement because I've heard good things. However, I find they speak too fast, I can't get what they're saying, and I'm not going to subscribe just to slow the videos down. I've tried watching a PowerScore introductory video; got lost. I tried LSAT Trainer; got lost (though his voice is oddly soothing! lol). I looked at YouTube videos; got lost. I'm on Khan Academy; am lost.

I feel like I have some sort of mental disability because once I diagram I don't understand what anything means. Yet, the diagrams themselves are correct-- I just cannot make inferences past the initial diagram and I keep looking back to the question stem which of course leaves me just as confused.

What's wrong with me? I'm considering just giving up. I refuse to go to law school without a significant scholarship (dat debt aversion doe) and I know the LSAT is everything so perhaps I'll just sit this one out. Maybe I'm just not cut out for it.

Hey man,

It’s all a bunch of elitist bullcrap, though no one will ever tell you that. If you go to law school, you’ll be taught by a bunch of loser professors who are literally unemployable outside of academia and your classmates will be the biggest distilled group of jerks you will ever meet, most of whom will washout after 4 years because they didn’t realize they signed up to be pawns and don’t have the personalities to get clients.

Newsflash - the LSAT is a joke. It basically measures how rich you were growing up. If you want to be a lawyer, go be a damn lawyer. Don’t let a stupid test of nonsense logic games tell you that you won’t be a good lawyer, what a silly concept.

Btw- it gets worse: guess who grades the bar exam? A bunch of lawyers who need the money (probably not great lawyers, right?!). I’ve been practicing for 7 yrs and am killing it financially and am well liked/respected among my peers. I did terrible on the LSAT and the bar exam (partly because I always felt like it was a joke).

Don’t let a bunch of elitist idiots scare you away. I came very close to that and I am very thankful I didn’t.

[Lsatkings.com]

Games are pretty learnable. Maybe you're just not studying properly. Have you tried isolating by game type and then doing drills? I.e. do all basic linear games, then advanced linear, then grouping, then advanced grouping..etc? Once you do enough this way, it is really mechanical and becomes muscle memory.

[IvyLeagueLawStudent]

Hey! Since I am new to this site, it wont let me message people, but I saw that you messaged me about my price for tutoring. I made a reply to my own post so that you can see! Thanks for reaching out!