Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything Forum

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Herky Jerky Slo Mo

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Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by Herky Jerky Slo Mo » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:46 pm

Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/scientist ... 36803.html
Testing yourself on the material you're trying to learn is more effective than studying and restudying that material.

In his book "Fluent Forever," opera singer Gabriel Wyner suggests that one of the best ways to learn a new language is to practice remembering it.
In other words, instead of reading and rereading a list of vocabulary words, you should read it once and then test yourself repeatedly.

The same strategy works for pretty much anything you're hoping to commit to memory, and there's a growing body of research behind it. Psychologists call this phenomenon the "testing effect." . . .
Interesting article I came across that might relate to LSAT studying.

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by RamTitan » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:02 pm

So drilling LR problems over and over, as well as games, is the best way to learn according to this advice, correct?

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by Herky Jerky Slo Mo » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:38 pm

RamTitan wrote:So drilling LR problems over and over, as well as games, is the best way to learn according to this advice, correct?
I'm not 100% sure to be honest. But, here's my interpretation:

For some tasks that you're trying to learn, testing yourself on it can help you perhaps drill it into your brain and memory more effectively than studying and restudying. For example, if you're trying to learn the rules for finding a derivative in a calculus class, you can:

a.) read the book and try to memorize the formulas
or
b.) read the formulas once and then test yourself on them immediately

In this example, I'm not even talking about applying them (which you can practice too if you want), but just literally memorizing the formulas themselves. To me, it sounds like the "testing effect" applies best to things you need to commit to memory.

In that regard, you might perhaps find it more efficient and effective to use the testing strategy to memorize the various logic rules used in LR and LG (stuff like conditionals and conjunctions, etc.).

I haven't started study of logic games yet myself (although, I've done quite a bit of LR, which looked familiar to me already from undergraduate philosophy), beyond a few basic examples, but if there is anything in LG that involves pattern recognition, then I think this same testing strategy might apply as well. Essentially, I'm taking the article to suggest that testing is a better way of learning something that you need to remember vs. reading/rereading.

It's actually something that I had already used in my "arsenal" :P of learning strategies prior to reading the article. But, I just thought it was an interesting piece in suggesting testing to be more effective than reading/rereading.

The important thing I would add is that any kind of rote learning is something that is usually limited in producing deeper level mastery and understanding of something. Nobel Laureate physicist, Richard Feynman, famously said the following below:

“I don't know what's the matter with people: they don't learn by understanding, they learn by some other way — by rote or something. Their knowledge is so fragile!”

In general, I agree with him! To truly have a deeper level of mastery of something, you often - if not, always - need to understand the reasoning/logic behind it.

For example, when I was learning first-order logic in a philosophy undergrad course, I didn't just memorize the various logic rules, but wanted to understand them. In De Morgan, for example, you can just memorize the formula equivalency: ~(A & B) = ~A v ~B But, let's say you forgot it for whatever reason. If you truly understand the meaning and logic behind it, then you could just stop, think about it, and derive it. The same holds true with formulas of greater complexity. But, for practical reasons, it's often just good to memorize these things as well. It can be a pain and impractically inefficient to have to derive some formula from logical principles every single time you need it. That's why both memorization and understanding are needed/helpful!

If you study/practice any subject matter at a deeper level, then you're going to ultimately need understanding to problem solve new things that you haven't seen before or been given the answer/procedure for doing.

With the LSAT, it seems (I haven't studied all areas of it fully yet) like there's not this completely sort of open problem solving and thinking involved, but rather a "closed" and defined set of problems with rules and procedures you can learn and memorize.

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by jrass » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:52 pm

All animals learn new information based on their experience. The potential pitfalls of this strategy are (1) it's only useful if you have some idea of what you're doing and (2) it's easy to over-hype the value of one random experience. A tiger who is shot at by a poacher is likely to interpret all people as threatening, and an LSAT test taker who gets a question wrong because it says "some" and the right answer says "many" may misinterpret "some" as being characteristic of a wrong answer.

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by gnomgnomuch » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:59 pm

+180 for the most ridiculously click-bait headline I've EVER read.

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Herky Jerky Slo Mo

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by Herky Jerky Slo Mo » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:28 am

gnomgnomuch wrote:+180 for the most ridiculously click-bait headline I've EVER read.
The article is actually helpful from my own experience of learning things (mathematics, in particular), but it is a little bit misleading in terms of the type of learning that's involved. It should have probably read: memorize!

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by Herky Jerky Slo Mo » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:10 am

jrass wrote:All animals learn new information based on their experience. The potential pitfalls of this strategy are (1) it's only useful if you have some idea of what you're doing and (2) it's easy to over-hype the value of one random experience. A tiger who is shot at by a poacher is likely to interpret all people as threatening, and an LSAT test taker who gets a question wrong because it says "some" and the right answer says "many" may misinterpret "some" as being characteristic of a wrong answer.
Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure I got everything above, jrass, but just thought I'd add (from what I think you're trying to say) that with humans, we're capable of active learning too. In other words, we not limited to just passively absorbing information and then using some kind of universal induction principle (believing our singular experience with something reflects all such cases of the same thing) to apply to everything else. Rather, we have the capability of questioning our observations, using abstract logic, performing logical calculations, etc.

In terms of "pitfalls of this strategy," I wasn't sure which one you were referring to, but for sure rote memorization has its limits and drawbacks - as I tried to point out above. :lol: The LSAT isn't entirely amenable to using rote either, since one still has to do reading comprehension and perform logical calculations.

I think where the "testing effect" could be used is in learning the various relevant logic rules and meta-forms of various argument types and structures - possibly in certain aspects of LG too (e.g., certain game structures you may need to be able to identify). You could make like a master list of these and test yourself on them.

(***But, as I said above, you should understand them too!)

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by gnomgnomuch » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:14 am

carlsenvshikaru wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:+180 for the most ridiculously click-bait headline I've EVER read.
The article is actually helpful from my own experience of learning things (mathematics, in particular), but it is a little bit misleading in terms of the type of learning that's involved. It should have probably read: memorize!
Oh nah, I wasn't criticizing you haha, I literally lol'ed when I saw it.

I'm a very active learner, so I generally type things out when I'm studying - even the math I do now, is all online!

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by Herky Jerky Slo Mo » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:10 am

gnomgnomuch wrote:
carlsenvshikaru wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:+180 for the most ridiculously click-bait headline I've EVER read.
The article is actually helpful from my own experience of learning things (mathematics, in particular), but it is a little bit misleading in terms of the type of learning that's involved. It should have probably read: memorize!
Oh nah, I wasn't criticizing you haha, I literally lol'ed when I saw it.

I'm a very active learner, so I generally type things out when I'm studying - even the math I do now, is all online!
Oh, no worries. I was just agreeing with you a little bit and also defending the article too! :D

Do you use LaTex for math?

Also, if you have any study strategies, feel free to post them here or in another thread. I had thought of possibly making a "super" thread with general study tips that one could apply to the LSAT.

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by gnomgnomuch » Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:06 pm

carlsenvshikaru wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
carlsenvshikaru wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:+180 for the most ridiculously click-bait headline I've EVER read.
The article is actually helpful from my own experience of learning things (mathematics, in particular), but it is a little bit misleading in terms of the type of learning that's involved. It should have probably read: memorize!
Oh nah, I wasn't criticizing you haha, I literally lol'ed when I saw it.

I'm a very active learner, so I generally type things out when I'm studying - even the math I do now, is all online!
Oh, no worries. I was just agreeing with you a little bit and also defending the article too! :D

Do you use LaTex for math?

Also, if you have any study strategies, feel free to post them here or in another thread. I had thought of possibly making a "super" thread with general study tips that one could apply to the LSAT.
No idea what LaTex is haha - I do a fair amount of stats in my work, so I just use SPSS lol. That's what I meant by 'even the math I do now is all online".

General study tips are a bit strange - you study different subjects differently, plus people are all different. For example, once I start studying I like to sit down and not stand up again until I'm actually done. Whereas, not everyone can just sit still for 5 hours straight. My biggest tip would prob be to write things out and internalize them. When I was learning Italian, I would make a set of say 100 flashcards - and then take 10 and read them to myself 50 times each and test them. Then, I would add 5. I'd keep doing that until all 100 were memorized. And then, i'd quiz myself on all 100. It took about an hour to get them done, but at the end of the hour, I'd have internalized all 100 words. The next day, I'd do the same thing with another set.

But, hell, you have to keep it up, I've forgotten everything about Italian because I stopped using it - it was a stupid general req to graduate from college.

For LSAT tips I'm at a blank... I haven't taken the LSAT yet. I'm currently in grad school, and planning on going to law school in about 2-4 years.

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by jrass » Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:05 pm

carlsenvshikaru wrote:
jrass wrote:All animals learn new information based on their experience. The potential pitfalls of this strategy are (1) it's only useful if you have some idea of what you're doing and (2) it's easy to over-hype the value of one random experience. A tiger who is shot at by a poacher is likely to interpret all people as threatening, and an LSAT test taker who gets a question wrong because it says "some" and the right answer says "many" may misinterpret "some" as being characteristic of a wrong answer.
Hmmm, I'm not entirely sure I got everything above, jrass, but just thought I'd add (from what I think you're trying to say) that with humans, we're capable of active learning too. In other words, we not limited to just passively absorbing information and then using some kind of universal induction principle (believing our singular experience with something reflects all such cases of the same thing) to apply to everything else. Rather, we have the capability of questioning our observations, using abstract logic, performing logical calculations, etc.

In terms of "pitfalls of this strategy," I wasn't sure which one you were referring to, but for sure rote memorization has its limits and drawbacks - as I tried to point out above. :lol: The LSAT isn't entirely amenable to using rote either, since one still has to do reading comprehension and perform logical calculations.

I think where the "testing effect" could be used is in learning the various relevant logic rules and meta-forms of various argument types and structures - possibly in certain aspects of LG too (e.g., certain game structures you may need to be able to identify). You could make like a master list of these and test yourself on them.

(***But, as I said above, you should understand them too!)
My point is that the thing to keep in mind is that all animals (not only people) overvalue the commonality of their experiences so learning by doing is great as long as you keep in mind that what worked on one problem won't necessarily work on any similar problem. For this technique to be valuable you would have to be capable of extracting the specific facts that make the right answer Choice A vs. Choice B, not just some general pattern.

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by Clyde Frog » Wed Jan 27, 2016 4:26 pm

Carlsen, you watch any Knick's games this year?

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Re: Scientists Say This Ridiculously Simple Strategy Can Help You Learn Anything

Post by ugg » Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:25 pm

Language professors HATE him!!!!

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