Reviewing logic games and in general. Forum

[MrSam]

Hey everyone,

I've always struggled with logic games. Despite the fact that I've been practicing them for two months, I still fail to finish all 4 games on my PTs (I always finish two, max, and often get through half of the third). Anyhow, I started approaching my reviewing a bit differently. Instead of just doing the game and reviewing using 7Sage's videos, I have started doing the games, reviewing them using 7Sage's videos, and reviewing them in the PS Bible (assuming they go over it in the Bible). Does this sound like a pointless waste of time? I find that 7Sage's methods are more efficient, but I do like the random tips that the Bible provides.
If there are any LG books that you can recommend, please feel free to do so. I'm almost positive that the best thing to do now is PRACTICE LG and stop looking into new books...but I'll try anything if it could potentially bump my LG score.

I'm considering simply reading the Bible, doing the games at the end of each chapter, and reviewing them using 7Sage (and, not reading the Bible's explanation regarding each game).

Also, since the Dec test is coming up, I need to ramp up my studying. I completed Testmasters, and am now using prep books, drilling, and PTing.
I was fortunate enough to have a friend who loaned me her books, and purchased my own. The books I currently have are: Powerscore Bible (2015, all 3 books), The Trainer, TM's course books, and Manhattans LR guide.
Seeing as how there probably isn't enough time to read through all of these books, drill, and PT, how should I go about studying? I have an idea of what I want to do, but I'm hoping to get some advice.

Regarding prep books in general, do you guys/gals read them, word for word? Or do you skim around and read what you think is important. I like the PS Bibles...but my gosh, is it full of redundant and filler information.

[osgiliath]

The best thing to do at this point is just to practice LG. Do the same games over and over again, waiting a day between each one until you can do them at or under the suggested times by 7Sage. Do this by category - for example, for several hours in a day JUST do sequencing. Watch 7sage for any of those sequencing games that gave you problems and work through it on a piece of paper as 7sage runs through the game. In the next day or 2, do all of the sequencing games you did in that initial study sesh again and see if you improved. Rinse and repeat for each category of logic game. Move onto timed LG sections when you have a solid grasp on all logic game types to get used to switching up tactics within a 35 minute period.

[LurkSoHard]

Post removed...

[mist4bison]

The best thing to do at this point is just to practice LG. Do the same games over and over again, waiting a day between each one until you can do them at or under the suggested times by 7Sage. Do this by category - for example, for several hours in a day JUST do sequencing. Watch 7sage for any of those sequencing games that gave you problems and work through it on a piece of paper as 7sage runs through the game. In the next day or 2, do all of the sequencing games you did in that initial study sesh again and see if you improved. Rinse and repeat for each category of logic game. Move onto timed LG sections when you have a solid grasp on all logic game types to get used to switching up tactics within a 35 minute period.

Solid advice. I would also suggest not going from book to book, assuming you've read through, done some basic conditional drills (I know TM does these, and have a decent grasp of fundamentals.

Is it only timing that's getting you? Or is getting a number of questions wrong an issue too?

Also, in reference to doing games as 7sage does them, I'd suggest pausing after the board is set up and trying to run through questions on your own, then playing the video to see howJY ran through those questions. Always try on your own first.

[MrSam]

Thanks everyone! Below are answers/comments. Any other advice is always appreciated!

The best thing to do at this point is just to practice LG. Do the same games over and over again, waiting a day between each one until you can do them at or under the suggested times by 7Sage. Do this by category - for example, for several hours in a day JUST do sequencing. Watch 7sage for any of those sequencing games that gave you problems and

The best thing to do at this point is just to practice LG. Do the same games over and over again, waiting a day between each one until you can do them at or under the suggested times by 7Sage. Do this by category - for example, for several hours in a day JUST do sequencing. Watch 7sage for any of those sequencing games that gave you problems and work through it on a piece of paper as 7sage runs through the game. In the next day or 2, do all of the sequencing games you did in that initial study sesh again and see if you improved. Rinse and repeat for each category of logic game. Move onto timed LG sections when you have a solid grasp on all logic game types to get used to switching up tactics within a 35 minute period.

work through it on a piece of paper as 7sage runs through the game. In the next day or 2, do all of the sequencing games you did in that initial study sesh again and see if you improved. Rinse and repeat for each category of logic game. Move onto timed LG sections when you have a solid grasp on all logic game types to get used to switching up tactics within a 35 minute period.

This has been suggested to me so many times, and I keep telling myself to do it. Unfortunately, I back out and tell myself that it would be better to do new games instead of repeating old games. Now that I think about it...my approach is foolish. After all, what good is redoing something that you keep messing up on? Thanks again, I'll try this out!

Solid advice. I would also suggest not going from book to book, assuming you've read through, done some basic conditional drills (I know TM does these, and have a decent grasp of fundamentals.

Is it only timing that's getting you? Or is getting a number of questions wrong an issue too?

Also, in reference to doing games as 7sage does them, I'd suggest pausing after the board is set up and trying to run through questions on your own, then playing the video to see howJY ran through those questions. Always try on your own first.

It's actually just the timing. Given an hour, I can do all 4 sections and up scoring -0/-1. I just seem to run out.
I have actually tried the suggested method. What I have found is, if someone sets up the board, with all of the inferences (the important ones), then the game is a cakewalk. For the most part, this situation is ideal for me, as I am able to finish the game in 4 minutes or less. As you can probably tell, my problem lies in the initial diagraming. 90% of the time I miss an important inference, then gets frustrated and wonder, "what else did I miss?"

[osgiliath]

Hmm if your issue is the set up then I would say don't worry about timing for a while - really focus on finding the inferences. Pay special attention to the set up phase of 7sage videos - the types of inferences repeat for games of the same type, and once you've seen the same inference enough times you should be able to catch it when you are setting up the game. For example, in sequencing games where there is a block (2 or more variables always adjacent) plus a solo variable that has to always go on 2 or 5 or a number that always has to be assigned one of 2 solo variables, there are going to be a couple configurations that result in the block piece not being able to go anywhere. Always take some time during the set up phase to play some of the rules off of eachother either in your head or on a quick hypothetical and see what types of limitations they create. Once you get used to playing the rules off of eachother to create inferences then move back into trying to blast your way through each game under the time limit.

[MrSam]

Hmm if your issue is the set up then I would say don't worry about timing for a while - really focus on finding the inferences. Pay special attention to the set up phase of 7sage videos - the types of inferences repeat for games of the same type, and once you've seen the same inference enough times you should be able to catch it when you are setting up the game. For example, in sequencing games where there is a block (2 or more variables always adjacent) plus a solo variable that has to always go on 2 or 5 or a number that always has to be assigned one of 2 solo variables, there are going to be a couple configurations that result in the block piece not being able to go anywhere. Always take some time during the set up phase to play some of the rules off of eachother either in your head or on a quick hypothetical and see what types of limitations they create. Once you get used to playing the rules off of eachother to create inferences then move back into trying to blast your way through each game under the time limit.

Thanks again, osgiliath. The funny thing is, once I start the questions, I can see those inferences. The one thing that always gets me is when they present a global question, I realize that I didn't find the inference that would give me the answer to that question, then find the answer 2 minutes later - the annoying thing is, once I find the answer, I always end up thinking "how did I NOT see that?!"

[osgiliath]

Hmm if your issue is the set up then I would say don't worry about timing for a while - really focus on finding the inferences. Pay special attention to the set up phase of 7sage videos - the types of inferences repeat for games of the same type, and once you've seen the same inference enough times you should be able to catch it when you are setting up the game. For example, in sequencing games where there is a block (2 or more variables always adjacent) plus a solo variable that has to always go on 2 or 5 or a number that always has to be assigned one of 2 solo variables, there are going to be a couple configurations that result in the block piece not being able to go anywhere. Always take some time during the set up phase to play some of the rules off of eachother either in your head or on a quick hypothetical and see what types of limitations they create. Once you get used to playing the rules off of eachother to create inferences then move back into trying to blast your way through each game under the time limit.

Thanks again, osgiliath. The funny thing is, once I start the questions, I can see those inferences. The one thing that always gets me is when they present a global question, I realize that I didn't find the inference that would give me the answer to that question, then find the answer 2 minutes later - the annoying thing is, once I find the answer, I always end up thinking "how did I NOT see that?!"

That's exactly what you should focus on: When you have that "a ha!" moment, recognize and internalize it during your drilling because that type of inference WILL be repeated in another game on another test. The example I gave regarding blocks and solo pieces is exactly the type of inference that you would at first only be forced to find after encountering a global question -- however, once you've done enough games of the same type you should be able to see that the rules are going to lead to that type of question, and you should be able to quickly narrow the answer choices down to the ones that are likely to create the limitation you need to be able to answer the question. It is fine to get to the question without having the exact inference of what can't or must go where - what you want is to know what types of relationships between the rules to look for once you get to that question. If you can cut down that 2 minutes to 1 minute once you hit the question, you should be OK.

[MrSam]

Hmm if your issue is the set up then I would say don't worry about timing for a while - really focus on finding the inferences. Pay special attention to the set up phase of 7sage videos - the types of inferences repeat for games of the same type, and once you've seen the same inference enough times you should be able to catch it when you are setting up the game. For example, in sequencing games where there is a block (2 or more variables always adjacent) plus a solo variable that has to always go on 2 or 5 or a number that always has to be assigned one of 2 solo variables, there are going to be a couple configurations that result in the block piece not being able to go anywhere. Always take some time during the set up phase to play some of the rules off of eachother either in your head or on a quick hypothetical and see what types of limitations they create. Once you get used to playing the rules off of eachother to create inferences then move back into trying to blast your way through each game under the time limit.

Thanks again, osgiliath. The funny thing is, once I start the questions, I can see those inferences. The one thing that always gets me is when they present a global question, I realize that I didn't find the inference that would give me the answer to that question, then find the answer 2 minutes later - the annoying thing is, once I find the answer, I always end up thinking "how did I NOT see that?!"

That's exactly what you should focus on: When you have that "a ha!" moment, recognize and internalize it during your drilling because that type of inference WILL be repeated in another game on another test. The example I gave regarding blocks and solo pieces is exactly the type of inference that you would at first only be forced to find after encountering a global question -- however, once you've done enough games of the same type you should be able to see that the rules are going to lead to that type of question, and you should be able to quickly narrow the answer choices down to the ones that are likely to create the limitation you need to be able to answer the question. It is fine to get to the question without having the exact inference of what can't or must go where - what you want is to know what types of relationships between the rules to look for once you get to that question. If you can cut down that 2 minutes to 1 minute once you hit the question, you should be OK.

Thanks again, osgiliath. I think my best option now is to put down the prep books and drill + PT. I am a little annoyed that the December test is already less than 2 months away.
Based on your personal experience, did you ever read an entire prep book? Or did you skim around and focus on drilling/pting?

[osgiliath]

Hmm if your issue is the set up then I would say don't worry about timing for a while - really focus on finding the inferences. Pay special attention to the set up phase of 7sage videos - the types of inferences repeat for games of the same type, and once you've seen the same inference enough times you should be able to catch it when you are setting up the game. For example, in sequencing games where there is a block (2 or more variables always adjacent) plus a solo variable that has to always go on 2 or 5 or a number that always has to be assigned one of 2 solo variables, there are going to be a couple configurations that result in the block piece not being able to go anywhere. Always take some time during the set up phase to play some of the rules off of eachother either in your head or on a quick hypothetical and see what types of limitations they create. Once you get used to playing the rules off of eachother to create inferences then move back into trying to blast your way through each game under the time limit.

Thanks again, osgiliath. The funny thing is, once I start the questions, I can see those inferences. The one thing that always gets me is when they present a global question, I realize that I didn't find the inference that would give me the answer to that question, then find the answer 2 minutes later - the annoying thing is, once I find the answer, I always end up thinking "how did I NOT see that?!"

That's exactly what you should focus on: When you have that "a ha!" moment, recognize and internalize it during your drilling because that type of inference WILL be repeated in another game on another test. The example I gave regarding blocks and solo pieces is exactly the type of inference that you would at first only be forced to find after encountering a global question -- however, once you've done enough games of the same type you should be able to see that the rules are going to lead to that type of question, and you should be able to quickly narrow the answer choices down to the ones that are likely to create the limitation you need to be able to answer the question. It is fine to get to the question without having the exact inference of what can't or must go where - what you want is to know what types of relationships between the rules to look for once you get to that question. If you can cut down that 2 minutes to 1 minute once you hit the question, you should be OK.

Thanks again, osgiliath. I think my best option now is to put down the prep books and drill + PT. I am a little annoyed that the December test is already less than 2 months away.
Based on your personal experience, did you ever read an entire prep book? Or did you skim around and focus on drilling/pting?

I did pretty much the entire manhattan LG book, but the book phase of your studying is probably less than 5% of the total. It shows you how to set up different types of games and provides maybe 1 or 2 examples, but inference building skills can only be achieved by going through a high volume of past logic games and repeating until you master them.

[MrSam]

Hmm if your issue is the set up then I would say don't worry about timing for a while - really focus on finding the inferences. Pay special attention to the set up phase of 7sage videos - the types of inferences repeat for games of the same type, and once you've seen the same inference enough times you should be able to catch it when you are setting up the game. For example, in sequencing games where there is a block (2 or more variables always adjacent) plus a solo variable that has to always go on 2 or 5 or a number that always has to be assigned one of 2 solo variables, there are going to be a couple configurations that result in the block piece not being able to go anywhere. Always take some time during the set up phase to play some of the rules off of eachother either in your head or on a quick hypothetical and see what types of limitations they create. Once you get used to playing the rules off of eachother to create inferences then move back into trying to blast your way through each game under the time limit.

Thanks again, osgiliath. The funny thing is, once I start the questions, I can see those inferences. The one thing that always gets me is when they present a global question, I realize that I didn't find the inference that would give me the answer to that question, then find the answer 2 minutes later - the annoying thing is, once I find the answer, I always end up thinking "how did I NOT see that?!"

That's exactly what you should focus on: When you have that "a ha!" moment, recognize and internalize it during your drilling because that type of inference WILL be repeated in another game on another test. The example I gave regarding blocks and solo pieces is exactly the type of inference that you would at first only be forced to find after encountering a global question -- however, once you've done enough games of the same type you should be able to see that the rules are going to lead to that type of question, and you should be able to quickly narrow the answer choices down to the ones that are likely to create the limitation you need to be able to answer the question. It is fine to get to the question without having the exact inference of what can't or must go where - what you want is to know what types of relationships between the rules to look for once you get to that question. If you can cut down that 2 minutes to 1 minute once you hit the question, you should be OK.

Thanks again, osgiliath. I think my best option now is to put down the prep books and drill + PT. I am a little annoyed that the December test is already less than 2 months away.
Based on your personal experience, did you ever read an entire prep book? Or did you skim around and focus on drilling/pting?

I did pretty much the entire manhattan LG book, but the book phase of your studying is probably less than 5% of the total. It shows you how to set up different types of games and provides maybe 1 or 2 examples, but inference building skills can only be achieved by going through a high volume of past logic games and repeating until you master them.

Got it. It looks like it's time to really nail down my inference making skills (and learn when to stop looking for inferences - which ultimately wastes time).