Appropriate way to study LG? Forum

[cdotson2]

Logic Games were my strong suit, so maybe my information might not be as helpful as others have already posted. I would suggest sitting down with a single game (maybe one of the ones on the free LSAT) and working through it for as long as it takes for you to get the right answers. Rather than watching a video about how it's done or learning how to diagram, discovering your personal methods will be beneficial to see what steps you need to take to improve. And if you have already done that, then ignore my advice/suggestions. If you have to, write out as many sequences/groups that you can come up with based on the rules, or go to each question/answer choice and write a sequence (or multiple) that will either cause an answer choice to be true, or until you find one to be false. Fortunately for me, I was able to quickly digest the info during the real test, so I was actually able to list out 3 or 4 sequences per question/answer choice when I got locked up. But I personally have found that finding my own method, then supplementing it with pieces of other people's suggestions has helped me the most.

to reiterate this point but from someone whose weakness was LG you need to start by taking as much time as you need to get 100% then slowly set time goals for yourself until you can repeatedly do sections in under 35 mins. on the actual test I went -0

Hi,
Did you do all games from PT1? Sounds like I will have to take time and focus on reviewing a lot, and I start to wonder whether I should repeat the games I did to capture the concepts more (Say, maybe just do games starting from PT29 or PT 25.)

I couldn't tell you which tests I did, but will say that leave the most recent for close to the test, and if you do repeat questions also make sure you at least do a full 15-20 sections from different test as well. in other words repeating can be helpful but I wouldn't do it if it meant you did less new problems, because IMO you will gain less from a redo than from a new problem.

[shump92]

As far as how far back you go on PTs, that depends on how far you are from your goals. I know I didn't study enough, but I was able to do basically as well as I did on my few PTs on test day because the questions were about the same. So really old materials can be valuable for understanding the format and some techniques, but putting too much stock into the actual questions isn't worth it. Until you get to whatever tests were around 2008, there are going to be some notable differences between the PTs and your real test. That is why the advice to saving the recent ones to the end can help, but some people don't need to work through all 70ish PTs to score extremely well.

Note: I dont' think any of my PT sections were older that PT50.

[1sataker]

[quote
I couldn't tell you which tests I did, but will say that leave the most recent for close to the test, and if you do repeat questions also make sure you at least do a full 15-20 sections from different test as well. in other words repeating can be helpful but I wouldn't do it if it meant you did less new problems, because IMO you will gain less from a redo than from a new problem.][/quote]

I see. Thanks for the advice!

As far as how far back you go on PTs, that depends on how far you are from your goals. I know I didn't study enough, but I was able to do basically as well as I did on my few PTs on test day because the questions were about the same. So really old materials can be valuable for understanding the format and some techniques, but putting too much stock into the actual questions isn't worth it. Until you get to whatever tests were around 2008, there are going to be some notable differences between the PTs and your real test. That is why the advice to saving the recent ones to the end can help, but some people don't need to work through all 70ish PTs to score extremely well.

Note: I dont' think any of my PT sections were older that PT50.

Wow, really? You mean...you didn't do older games than PT 50? (maybe I misunderstood but ) But it seems it really depends on persons then...I'll keep practicing and see whether I need more practice, and if do, then I better do older sections...for now just practice&practice I guess.

[scone]

I actually found repeating games to be really, really useful - that's when I actually learnt the techniques, rather than just practising them. I only ended up doing a few practise tests (along with all the questions in the logic games bible), but went from only being able to complete half of the logic games in time to doing all of them in 20 minutes on test day. The main reason for that was repeating them and repeating them until I could do them as fast as necessary.

[shump92]

As far as how far back you go on PTs, that depends on how far you are from your goals. I know I didn't study enough, but I was able to do basically as well as I did on my few PTs on test day because the questions were about the same. So really old materials can be valuable for understanding the format and some techniques, but putting too much stock into the actual questions isn't worth it. Until you get to whatever tests were around 2008, there are going to be some notable differences between the PTs and your real test. That is why the advice to saving the recent ones to the end can help, but some people don't need to work through all 70ish PTs to score extremely well.

Note: I dont' think any of my PT sections were older that PT50.

Wow, really? You mean...you didn't do older games than PT 50? (maybe I misunderstood but ) But it seems it really depends on persons then...I'll keep practicing and see whether I need more practice, and if do, then I better do older sections...for now just practice&practice I guess.

You read that correctly. But like I said, my starting point was like -1 for LG. All I had to do was understand the time constraint format and how to not just solve the problems in my head. My experience is definitely not a good one to rely on. My light prep hurt me more in the other two sections, but I probably did well enough overall.

It completely depends on the person. Some people who don't even want to take the LSAT could probably score in the 170s without ever studying. It really doesn't matter how you get to your score or what that number is in the long run. What really matters is that you give yourself the best chance possible to get an LSAT that allows you to have good admissions options for your career.

[1sataker]

As far as how far back you go on PTs, that depends on how far you are from your goals. I know I didn't study enough, but I was able to do basically as well as I did on my few PTs on test day because the questions were about the same. So really old materials can be valuable for understanding the format and some techniques, but putting too much stock into the actual questions isn't worth it. Until you get to whatever tests were around 2008, there are going to be some notable differences between the PTs and your real test. That is why the advice to saving the recent ones to the end can help, but some people don't need to work through all 70ish PTs to score extremely well.

Note: I dont' think any of my PT sections were older that PT50.

Wow, really? You mean...you didn't do older games than PT 50? (maybe I misunderstood but ) But it seems it really depends on persons then...I'll keep practicing and see whether I need more practice, and if do, then I better do older sections...for now just practice&practice I guess.

You read that correctly. But like I said, my starting point was like -1 for LG. All I had to do was understand the time constraint format and how to not just solve the problems in my head. My experience is definitely not a good one to rely on. My light prep hurt me more in the other two sections, but I probably did well enough overall.

It completely depends on the person. Some people who don't even want to take the LSAT could probably score in the 170s without ever studying. It really doesn't matter how you get to your score or what that number is in the long run. What really matters is that you give yourself the best chance possible to get an LSAT that allows you to have good admissions options for your career.

You're right. I guess I'll do what I can do and need to do...just try best.
But thanks for sharing your experience!

[1sataker]

Hi,
I got another question...
When do you usually use previous work? How do you avoid doing trial&error?

I tried to use previous work for "must be true" question which is without "if" statement, but it only helped me to eliminate 2 answer choices, and actually for that question the correct answer was A ( which means it was actually faster to do trial&error for this question).
I'm not sure when to use previous work and when need to trial&error...
Do you have any tips?

Thank you.

[shump92]

Hi,
I got another question...
When do you usually use previous work? How do you avoid doing trial&error?

I tried to use previous work for "must be true" question which is without "if" statement, but it only helped me to eliminate 2 answer choices, and actually for that question the correct answer was A ( which means it was actually faster to do trial&error for this question).
I'm not sure when to use previous work and when need to trial&error...
Do you have any tips?

Thank you.

You are thinking about this differently from how I do. I never think about using previous work unless I made some deduction that impacts the question I am on.

Here is what I do: 2-3 minutes to read the rules and create some sketch that summarizes what those rules are and what the game wants me to do.
Then I have 3-5 minutes to do the questions depending on how many there and how difficult the section is. Since my sketches are usually done well I don't have to go back to the rules again except for the "acceptable scenario" questions. (Weird games may require you to rely more on the rules than on a good sketch)The stimulus for each question makes it clear whether the answer is already in my sketch or whether I need to use the new information from the stimulus to figure out what the CR is. Sometimes a deduction from one of the early questions will help later, but usually it does not.

Note: Acceptable scenario questions are when they ask which of these 5 outcomes follows all of the rules. It usually makes the most sense to just go one rule at a time and cross out the answers that violate that rule, then move onto the next rule until you only have one choice left.

[1sataker]

Hi,
I got another question...
When do you usually use previous work? How do you avoid doing trial&error?

I tried to use previous work for "must be true" question which is without "if" statement, but it only helped me to eliminate 2 answer choices, and actually for that question the correct answer was A ( which means it was actually faster to do trial&error for this question).
I'm not sure when to use previous work and when need to trial&error...
Do you have any tips?

Thank you.

You are thinking about this differently from how I do. I never think about using previous work unless I made some deduction that impacts the question I am on.

Here is what I do: 2-3 minutes to read the rules and create some sketch that summarizes what those rules are and what the game wants me to do.
Then I have 3-5 minutes to do the questions depending on how many there and how difficult the section is. Since my sketches are usually done well I don't have to go back to the rules again except for the "acceptable scenario" questions. (Weird games may require you to rely more on the rules than on a good sketch)The stimulus for each question makes it clear whether the answer is already in my sketch or whether I need to use the new information from the stimulus to figure out what the CR is. Sometimes a deduction from one of the early questions will help later, but usually it does not.

Note: Acceptable scenario questions are when they ask which of these 5 outcomes follows all of the rules. It usually makes the most sense to just go one rule at a time and cross out the answers that violate that rule, then move onto the next rule until you only have one choice left.

So you usually don't use what you got on previous questions?
How do you avoid doing trial&error? (sorry if you already answered but still not sure cuz I hope I can avoid doing it as many as possible )

[cdotson2]

I actually found repeating games to be really, really useful - that's when I actually learnt the techniques, rather than just practising them. I only ended up doing a few practise tests (along with all the questions in the logic games bible), but went from only being able to complete half of the logic games in time to doing all of them in 20 minutes on test day. The main reason for that was repeating them and repeating them until I could do them as fast as necessary.

everybody is different, but I found it really hard to get anything from redoing the same problem especially if I did them too close together. I just remembered exactly how to do it and the right answer, so I was just writing down the answer from memory instead of working through it how I would for a problem I hadn't done before.

[1sataker]

I actually found repeating games to be really, really useful - that's when I actually learnt the techniques, rather than just practising them. I only ended up doing a few practise tests (along with all the questions in the logic games bible), but went from only being able to complete half of the logic games in time to doing all of them in 20 minutes on test day. The main reason for that was repeating them and repeating them until I could do them as fast as necessary.

For some reason I overlooked your response...thanks for your reply!
Can I ask how do you usually repeat your game? The same day or one week later etc...
And how many PT did you actually do? You say you could complete half of them in time, does that mean you couldn't for the other half of the games?

[shump92]

Hi,
I got another question...
When do you usually use previous work? How do you avoid doing trial&error?

I tried to use previous work for "must be true" question which is without "if" statement, but it only helped me to eliminate 2 answer choices, and actually for that question the correct answer was A ( which means it was actually faster to do trial&error for this question).
I'm not sure when to use previous work and when need to trial&error...
Do you have any tips?

Thank you.

You are thinking about this differently from how I do. I never think about using previous work unless I made some deduction that impacts the question I am on.

Here is what I do: 2-3 minutes to read the rules and create some sketch that summarizes what those rules are and what the game wants me to do.
Then I have 3-5 minutes to do the questions depending on how many there and how difficult the section is. Since my sketches are usually done well I don't have to go back to the rules again except for the "acceptable scenario" questions. (Weird games may require you to rely more on the rules than on a good sketch)The stimulus for each question makes it clear whether the answer is already in my sketch or whether I need to use the new information from the stimulus to figure out what the CR is. Sometimes a deduction from one of the early questions will help later, but usually it does not.

Note: Acceptable scenario questions are when they ask which of these 5 outcomes follows all of the rules. It usually makes the most sense to just go one rule at a time and cross out the answers that violate that rule, then move onto the next rule until you only have one choice left.

So you usually don't use what you got on previous questions?
How do you avoid doing trial&error? (sorry if you already answered but still not sure cuz I hope I can avoid doing it as many as possible )

I'll let someone else answer your concern more specifically but you pretty much have to do some new work for every single LG question. Your approach seems like it would take much more time.

[scone]

I actually found repeating games to be really, really useful - that's when I actually learnt the techniques, rather than just practising them. I only ended up doing a few practise tests (along with all the questions in the logic games bible), but went from only being able to complete half of the logic games in time to doing all of them in 20 minutes on test day. The main reason for that was repeating them and repeating them until I could do them as fast as necessary.

For some reason I overlooked your response...thanks for your reply!
Can I ask how do you usually repeat your game? The same day or one week later etc...
And how many PT did you actually do? You say you could complete half of them in time, does that mean you couldn't for the other half of the games?

I typically gave it a couple of days, but I don't think it really matters. While I remembered the correct answers, I made sure to actually work them out again when re-doing the questions, i.e. prove that they are the right (or at least not the wrong) answer. It gave me the chance to refine my set-up and diagramming etc., as well as getting a feel of what inferences to look for.

[pittsburghpirates]

Post removed.

[1sataker]

Hi,
I got another question...
When do you usually use previous work? How do you avoid doing trial&error?

I tried to use previous work for "must be true" question which is without "if" statement, but it only helped me to eliminate 2 answer choices, and actually for that question the correct answer was A ( which means it was actually faster to do trial&error for this question).
I'm not sure when to use previous work and when need to trial&error...
Do you have any tips?

Thank you.

You are thinking about this differently from how I do. I never think about using previous work unless I made some deduction that impacts the question I am on.

Here is what I do: 2-3 minutes to read the rules and create some sketch that summarizes what those rules are and what the game wants me to do.
Then I have 3-5 minutes to do the questions depending on how many there and how difficult the section is. Since my sketches are usually done well I don't have to go back to the rules again except for the "acceptable scenario" questions. (Weird games may require you to rely more on the rules than on a good sketch)The stimulus for each question makes it clear whether the answer is already in my sketch or whether I need to use the new information from the stimulus to figure out what the CR is. Sometimes a deduction from one of the early questions will help later, but usually it does not.

Note: Acceptable scenario questions are when they ask which of these 5 outcomes follows all of the rules. It usually makes the most sense to just go one rule at a time and cross out the answers that violate that rule, then move onto the next rule until you only have one choice left.

So you usually don't use what you got on previous questions?
How do you avoid doing trial&error? (sorry if you already answered but still not sure cuz I hope I can avoid doing it as many as possible )

I'll let someone else answer your concern more specifically but you pretty much have to do some new work for every single LG question. Your approach seems like it would take much more time.

Okay, thanks

I actually found repeating games to be really, really useful - that's when I actually learnt the techniques, rather than just practising them. I only ended up doing a few practise tests (along with all the questions in the logic games bible), but went from only being able to complete half of the logic games in time to doing all of them in 20 minutes on test day. The main reason for that was repeating them and repeating them until I could do them as fast as necessary.

For some reason I overlooked your response...thanks for your reply!
Can I ask how do you usually repeat your game? The same day or one week later etc...
And how many PT did you actually do? You say you could complete half of them in time, does that mean you couldn't for the other half of the games?

I typically gave it a couple of days, but I don't think it really matters. While I remembered the correct answers, I made sure to actually work them out again when re-doing the questions, i.e. prove that they are the right (or at least not the wrong) answer. It gave me the chance to refine my set-up and diagramming etc., as well as getting a feel of what inferences to look for.

I see, and you still could answer all games correctly during the real test even though you did not do many new games you said? (sorry if I misunderstand)

Hi,
I got another question...
When do you usually use previous work? How do you avoid doing trial&error?

I tried to use previous work for "must be true" question which is without "if" statement, but it only helped me to eliminate 2 answer choices, and actually for that question the correct answer was A ( which means it was actually faster to do trial&error for this question).
I'm not sure when to use previous work and when need to trial&error...
Do you have any tips?

Thank you.

This is an anomaly that A was correct here. If E was correct, trial and error would have taken way longer. By using previous work, you were instantly able to eliminate two ACs without doing anything further. So even if you had to brute force the rest, you only had to focus on 3 choices instead of 5!

Sounds like using previous work still works then. Thanks!

[scone]

.

[1sataker]

I actually found repeating games to be really, really useful - that's when I actually learnt the techniques, rather than just practising them. I only ended up doing a few practise tests (along with all the questions in the logic games bible), but went from only being able to complete half of the logic games in time to doing all of them in 20 minutes on test day. The main reason for that was repeating them and repeating them until I could do them as fast as necessary.

For some reason I overlooked your response...thanks for your reply!
Can I ask how do you usually repeat your game? The same day or one week later etc...
And how many PT did you actually do? You say you could complete half of them in time, does that mean you couldn't for the other half of the games?

I typically gave it a couple of days, but I don't think it really matters. While I remembered the correct answers, I made sure to actually work them out again when re-doing the questions, i.e. prove that they are the right (or at least not the wrong) answer. It gave me the chance to refine my set-up and diagramming etc., as well as getting a feel of what inferences to look for.

I see, and you still could answer all games correctly during the real test even though you did not do many new games you said? (sorry if I misunderstand)

Well, I did 10-15 PTs and all the excercises in the LG bible. The ones I found most challenging, I repeated (sometimes several times). I can't imagine there's that much point to doing many more games than this (there's not that much variation in question types), so long as a) you can return to any game you've done and do it correctly in the right timeframe and b) when you take a new PT you can complete the section in time. (Oh, and make sure to do everything timed. At least, I found that to be helpful!)

I don't actually know if I answered all the games correctly during the test - I'm international, so it was non-disclosed. However, even if all my mistakes were in the logic games section (which is unlikely), I can't have dropped more than two or three marks.

Everyone's different so take what I say with a pinch of salt - hopefully you'll find the method that works best for you!

Thanks for sharing your experience! Yeah, everyone is different, but it's good to hear different opinions-I'll try out and find what works for me

[salander]

I actually found repeating games to be really, really useful - that's when I actually learnt the techniques, rather than just practising them. I only ended up doing a few practise tests (along with all the questions in the logic games bible), but went from only being able to complete half of the logic games in time to doing all of them in 20 minutes on test day. The main reason for that was repeating them and repeating them until I could do them as fast as necessary.

Yes, definitely agree with this. Plus, there's nothing more discouraging than repeating a game and then finding out you still can't finish it in time. Really motivates you to internalize things instead of just going through the motions

[Clearly]

Never do the questions in the order they are given to you. Acceptability, If, Which, Rule Sub always in that order every game every section every test.

Also, take velocitylsat

[shump92]

Never do the questions in the order they are given to you. Acceptability, If, Which, Rule Sub always in that order every game every section every test.

Also, take velocitylsat

If you are struggling for time this is a great approach. Probably best for most people.

The one thing I would say is that it isn't always the easiest on test day to feel comfortable skipping around. So experiment and see what is best for you.

[Clearly]

Never do the questions in the order they are given to you. Acceptability, If, Which, Rule Sub always in that order every game every section every test.

Also, take velocitylsat

If you are struggling for time this is a great approach. Probably best for most people.

The one thing I would say is that it isn't always the easiest on test day to feel comfortable skipping around. So experiment and see what is best for you.

It's not skipping around if thats your system.

[Clearly]

Never do the questions in the order they are given to you. Acceptability, If, Which, Rule Sub always in that order every game every section every test.

Also, take velocitylsat

If you are struggling for time this is a great approach. Probably best for most people.

The one thing I would say is that it isn't always the easiest on test day to feel comfortable skipping around. So experiment and see what is best for you.

It's not skipping around if thats your system. It's the most efficient way to do games. I see above that you aren't fond of using prior work (which raises other questions), which means this is of less value for you, but using your prior work is useless if you don't do the questions in the order most likely to yield results, nor is doing the questions in this order useful if you don't use prior work, so I can see why you wouldn't be into it.

[shump92]

Never do the questions in the order they are given to you. Acceptability, If, Which, Rule Sub always in that order every game every section every test.

Also, take velocitylsat

If you are struggling for time this is a great approach. Probably best for most people.

The one thing I would say is that it isn't always the easiest on test day to feel comfortable skipping around. So experiment and see what is best for you.

It's not skipping around if thats your system. It's the most efficient way to do games. I see above that you aren't fond of using prior work (which raises other questions), which means this is of less value for you, but using your prior work is useless if you don't do the questions in the order most likely to yield results, nor is doing the questions in this order useful if you don't use prior work, so I can see why you wouldn't be into it.

My problem for the LSAT was that I just wasn't up for studying enough to have a really strong system. On test day I did a better job than normal of not overthinking my first thoughts, but I basically did each section in order based on how comfortable I was doing them. I knew what each type of LG question was but was not as good at breaking down the other two sections. So this input on strategizing the rest of the test helps if I end up retaking off some WLs. Thanks.

[1sataker]

Never do the questions in the order they are given to you. Acceptability, If, Which, Rule Sub always in that order every game every section every test.

Also, take velocitylsat

If you are struggling for time this is a great approach. Probably best for most people.

The one thing I would say is that it isn't always the easiest on test day to feel comfortable skipping around. So experiment and see what is best for you.

It's not skipping around if thats your system. It's the most efficient way to do games. I see above that you aren't fond of using prior work (which raises other questions), which means this is of less value for you, but using your prior work is useless if you don't do the questions in the order most likely to yield results, nor is doing the questions in this order useful if you don't use prior work, so I can see why you wouldn't be into it.

Hi,
Actually I'm a little confused...so are you saying skipping around allow you to do games faster? But if you want to use prior work you have to do the questions in order?
How do you solve games?

[pittsburghpirates]

Post removed.