Seriously in need of advice on LSAT... Forum

Samson Su · Post by **Samson Su** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:21 am

So, took my first diagnostic, and I will be completely honest..134.

I don't really know what to say actually at this point.

Just a little self-introduction:
Senior business major at Middle Tennessee State University graduating this December. 3.9 GPA. (4.0 all the way until got a B in Accounting this spring) 4 semesters in a roll on Dean's list. Full ride all the way.

But this LSAT is so different than any of the tests I've ever taken.

1 Logic Games. Had NO clue what to do. Completely guessed every single one of them.

2 Time. I seriously don't have enough time for either LR or RC. Only finished about 15 to 19 then had to guess the rest.

I know this is kinda an old subject for you guys who have experiences in this field but I seriously don't see how I could improve reading speed by THIS standard without not knowing what I am reading. And we all know if don't understand what I am reading, then forget about answering questions. Oh, also gotta answer them correctly.

I know it's my first diagnostic without any prep but I am still feeling extremely defeated and discouraged...I'll admit I'm not one of those beasts standard test taker. I'm not used to this. It completely shattered my expectation and self-esteem. I'm speechless...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

PodPeople · Post by **PodPeople** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:37 am

Good for you for being honest. Many people (myself included) do very poorly on their first, cold diagnostic. That's normal because you are completely unfamiliar with the format of the exam. On my first cold diagnostic I wasn't even able to figure out even one logic game. I also have a high GPA, and my score left me feeling defeated.

BUT there is good news: as soon as you start studying you'll pick up strategies that work, and your time will improve with practice. Buy the "bibles" mentioned all over TLS, and once you start to learn the format I bet your score will improve dramatically. Within a short time I figured out the logic games formats and strategies and I can now finish all games with either 0 or -1 wrong. It just takes practice.

Good luck!

joejoe · Post by **joejoe** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:43 am

Don't do timed tests for awhile

Learn to do sections SLOW and under 100% perfect conditions. THEN do timed. Heck, sit the real exam once as a dry run. You can repeat later if you need to.

Traditional advice? Nope. But I stand by it. Best of luck kid. Don't give up. You'll get this.

shump92 · Post by **shump92** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:40 am

Yeah the first thing is to definitely be comfortable with the test questions regardless of time. I feel like LG is a lot like math. It is very straightforward if you have a firm understanding of how to apply the rules to individual scenarios. But if you do not understand some rules or how to apply them, it makes no sense.

LR is definitely just drilling questions. I didn't hit my best there on test day because I didn't drill enough and the wording is very convoluted. I even recognized the format for one I got wrong on test day because the answers were so strange. Practice a lot for this section using various materials depending on how you learn best. It is half the test so improvement here goes a long way.

RC is probably the most difficult to get down. This was always something I struggled with and I usually do well on standardized tests. I think the most important thing to remember is that you should only be having a quality skim reading approach to each passage, potentially noting parts that stick out to you to anticipate what questions might focus on. Again, if I trusted my studying skills on test day I would have had one question right here that I had correct with my initial reaction. Also don't let the time pressure get to you on RC since that is literally the worst thing you can have happen since you rush yourself.

You might have seen Legally Blonde before. Just remember that Elle Woods went from 143 to 179. That is a bit of hyperbole, but at the same time it isn't that absurd. The LSAT is at its core a test that evaluates how well you can do under pressure. Look at your first test as a comparable scenario for how many people are when they first drive a car. They are a bit scared and really don't know what they are doing so they do terribly. But with varying degrees of practice, most people can learn how to drive well. You might need more time than other people do to get a better score, but all that counts is what your end score is. Good luck.

benwyatt · Post by **benwyatt** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:46 am

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Clemenceau · Post by **Clemenceau** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:49 am

joejoe wrote:Don't do timed tests for awhile

Learn to do sections SLOW and under 100% perfect conditions. THEN do timed. Heck, sit the real exam once as a dry run. You can repeat later if you need to.

Traditional advice? Nope. But I stand by it. Best of luck kid. Don't give up. You'll get this.

What the hell. Dont do this

Edit: scooped

PoopNpants · Post by **PoopNpants** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:51 am

benwyatt wrote:
joejoe wrote: ~~Heck, sit the real exam once as a dry run. You can repeat later if you need to.~~
Don't do this.
This is a bad idea.

Yeah that is terrible advice why would you wanna waste $170 and plus you only got 3 tries. Kaplan offers free proctored test exams you can do one of those if you want a feel like a "dry run" type of experience or you could just try and stimulate one of the 82 available PTs out there. But I'd hold off on PTs for now and get the basics done first.

benwyatt · Post by **benwyatt** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:52 am

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Indifference · Post by **Indifference** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:53 am

There is no graduate school entrance exam more learn-able than the LSAT. Your GPA indicates you aren't stupid. Get some materials, maybe take a prep course if you like (prep courses aren't required, though). Learn to tackle the test slowly before you go all in. Not saying you will get a 180, but I'm not saying you can't. Your diagnostic score does nothing but set a baseline. Given a dedicated, self-aware approach you'll be fine.

Also don't take the test as a dry run. Don't take it until you are ready to take it, and you know you can score what you want.

Edit: Scooped too.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:04 am

Don't sweat a low diagnostic. LG and timing tank almost everyone at first. 30+ point gains are possible and not rare with diligent study habits over several months.

Samson Su · Post by **Samson Su** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:57 am

Thank you guys so much for all the encouragement. I really appreciate it. I just didn't anticipate this result based on my normal academic performance in school. But it serves as a good wake-up call.

I agree with you guys and will work extra hard from this point on. I have just registered for 7 sage ultimate package and ordered LSAT trainer on Amazon. Any other materials you guys would recommend other than what I have? I heard some decent reviews on powerscore "Bibles". But then again some ppl said stick with the trainer instead of the Bibles. Any thoughts?

fredfred · Post by **fredfred** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 11:59 am

Samson Su wrote:Thank you guys so much for all the encouragement. I really appreciate it. I just didn't anticipate this result based on my normal academic performance in school. But it serves as a good wake-up call.

I agree with you guys and will work extra hard from this point on. I have just registered for 7 sage ultimate package and ordered LSAT trainer on Amazon. Any other materials you guys would recommend other than what I have? I heard some decent reviews on powerscore "Bibles". But then again some ppl said stick with the trainer instead of the Bibles. Any thoughts?

Get every single LSAT you can. Mod edit: deleted. They are your best friend. Take every LSAT ever given. Then do it again.

Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:08 pm

Get the LG Bible. Use Trainer (then Manhattan if you need advanced lessons) for LR and RC.

Also look into Cambridge Bundles. They cost a pretty penny but are so worth it.

shump92 · Post by **shump92** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:10 pm

And just remember that being able to hit the 160s/170s on test day is worth all of the $$ and time that went into your prep.

somethingElse · Post by **somethingElse** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:13 pm

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Rigo · Post by **Rigo** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:14 pm

shump92 wrote:And just remember that being able to hit the 160s/170s on test day is worth all of the $$ and time that went into your prep.

Yeah. Money on materials is a drop in the bucket compared to the payoff of full-rides to top schools.

PatriotP74 · Post by **PatriotP74** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:51 pm

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joejoe · Post by **joejoe** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:35 pm

I stand by my post. Its aimed at someone in need of help. Season to taste.

If you don't need leg braces, don't wear them when you run. If you do, then don't pretend you don't.

Samson Su · Post by **Samson Su** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:10 pm

somethingelse55 wrote:
Samson Su wrote:Thank you guys so much for all the encouragement. I really appreciate it. I just didn't anticipate this result based on my normal academic performance in school. But it serves as a good wake-up call.

I agree with you guys and will work extra hard from this point on. I have just registered for 7 sage ultimate package and ordered LSAT trainer on Amazon. Any other materials you guys would recommend other than what I have? I heard some decent reviews on powerscore "Bibles". But then again some ppl said stick with the trainer instead of the Bibles. Any thoughts?
Definitely get the Cambridge packets if you can. They have a bundle that gives you 38 tests worth of drilling packets (questions in order from easy to hard), and then another 30ish full tests. However I'm not sure what the 7sage ultimate package gives you, there might be some overlap - just look into that to make sure.

Like others have said though, LG is easily the section that you can improve upon the most. Once you learn how to visually represent the games and make inferences you'll be fine. Once you have the fundamentals down, too (in all sections not just LG), you'll be able to work a lot faster.

Just make sure that as you're studying you are really figuring out why the wrong answers are wrong and why the right answers are right. Not only will that make you more accurate, it'll help you with the timing aspect as well because you'll be more efficient.

https://www.cambridgelsat.com/bundles/

Is this what you were talking about? If so, what is the difference between them? The first one (relatively cheaper one) says is PT 1 to 38 by difficulties, 39 to 70 in entirety, whereas the rest is 1 to 38 by difficulties, and some is by 5 sections, some by 6 sections. Which one should I get?

somethingElse · Post by **somethingElse** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:17 pm

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Scalvert · Post by **Scalvert** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:32 pm

You might consider taking a logic course during the Spring semester. (Or winter-session if one is offered)

Ehhhh....nvm just noticed you graduate in Dec. you might see if there is an 8 week course at mid-term.

Samson Su · Post by **Samson Su** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:45 pm

somethingelse55 wrote:Yep that's what I was referring to. Personally I got the cheapest one, because what I plan on doing is inserting a section from a previous PT to the 4 section PTs to bring them up to 5.

Also, I never confirmed for sure, but it seemed like the more expensive bundles didn't actually have any additional PTs. The only difference is that they group them into 5 (or 6) section PTs for you. However, don't take my word as fact on that.

I guess I'm just confused about the 5 or 6 section thing. What does that mean if you don't mind asking? Also, I found the same PTs (used but no writings) online for a lot cheaper, just maybe not organized by difficulties like what Cambridge did. Is this "difficulties organizing" really important in your opinion? Sorry I'm new to this so please forgive my silly questions...

somethingElse · Post by **somethingElse** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:23 pm

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Samson Su · Post by **Samson Su** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:40 am

somethingelse55 wrote:
Samson Su wrote:
somethingelse55 wrote:Yep that's what I was referring to. Personally I got the cheapest one, because what I plan on doing is inserting a section from a previous PT to the 4 section PTs to bring them up to 5.

Also, I never confirmed for sure, but it seemed like the more expensive bundles didn't actually have any additional PTs. The only difference is that they group them into 5 (or 6) section PTs for you. However, don't take my word as fact on that.
I guess I'm just confused about the 5 or 6 section thing. What does that mean if you don't mind asking? Also, I found the same PTs (used but no writings) online for a lot cheaper, just maybe not organized by difficulties like what Cambridge did. Is this "difficulties organizing" really important in your opinion? Sorry I'm new to this so please forgive my silly questions...
So the real LSAT will have 5 sections. 4 of those sections count towards your score, and 1 is an experimental section and will not count. The standard PTs, regardless of where you purchase them from, will have only 4 sections. Many people believe that it is better to do 5 section PTs though, because it is closer to what the real test will be like and also helps build stamina. Many people also believe that practicing with 6 section tests is beneficial for more or less the same reason - it helps build stamina and, they argue, might make the real test seem easier in comparison.

The Cambridge bundle takes PTs 1-38 and completely disassembles them. This means that it takes each game, passage, and logical reasoning question and arranges them by difficulty. For instance, within logical reasoning there is a question type called "Must be true." The Cambridge bundle will take all of the "Must be True" questions from PTs 1-38 and put them all-together and in order from easy to difficult. Then, the rest of the Cambridge bundle (38-70) are arranged as regular PTs with 4, 5, or 6 sections depending on which bundle you get.

The used PTs you are referring to are not disassembled and resemble what Cambridge does for 38-70, not what it does for 1-38. I would venture to say that most people on here would agree that studying with both types (full PTs and the disassembled, focused packets of questions) is better than merely studying from one or the other.

Cambridge does also sell the packets from 1-38 by themselves though, so you could always buy those and then buy the used higher numbered PTs as well.

Okay, so sounds like I do need, or It may be more beneficial for me to have both---Rearranged by difficulties and regular sections. And it seems like also may be more beneficial to get some 5 or 6 sections instead all 4 sections. I will for sure look into it. What is your opinion on Powerscore bibles? I've heard such a mix reviews on them so not sure if I should bother or not...Thanks so much for your help!

Mint-Berry_Crunch · Post by **Mint-Berry_Crunch** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 2:58 am

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