another logical reasoning advice post.. Forum

[orzo]

i would appreciate some friendly advice, I am new to this board, so forgive me in advance as this probably has been discussed…I am really having a hard time with the logical reasoning, i just can't seem to get it. Yes, I have taken an online course, and yes, i even have a tutor, and yes, I have all the powerscore bibles. I have the right tools... But, for some reason, I have a mental block with LR. If I can conquer this part, i will feel ok. I can't give up on the lsat. i just have to try hard, but I am in need of some tips…the only thing, about why I am not doing well for this section that I can come up with, is that I am not using the methods correctly or at all. how should i handle the ones, I get wrong? Usually, I go over which ones I got wrong by looking at the correct answer to see why its correct or incorrect. But to me, I don't think this is enough. I don't know what else I can do.. I am so frustrated with this one section.. anyone have any tips….

[Lying Lawyer]

The first thing I am going to tell you is that you are not alone. Frustration from the LSAT is actually pretty common for most of us. This isn't something you're going to learn overnight. It's going to take a long time and you might not even master as well as you want to. Like you I have had an issue applying what the books taught me to the actual test questions. First off, if you're timing yourself stop. You need to work on answering questions without testing yourself. All it's doing is adding pressure. if you don't see what the book is telling you than reread the question and reread it again. If you're doing an assumption question, the premise and conclusion are there. Identify them and find the gap. Same as for the flaw questions. Where is the gap? It's there. Keep reading the question until you find it. It's there. Also remember that you don't need to find the right answer, but rather the one that is less wrong. For easier questions the answer is pretty obvious but for harder questions, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It is simply less wrong than the other four. Keep at it. I've been dealing with LR for almost 3 months. Also you might want to look into getting the Cambridge packets and drill with those.

[ptittle]

Can you honestly say you understand argument? When you read an LR, do you ask yourself:
- What's the main point?
- What's being presented as support for that main point?
- Does it follow? (the point from the support)
- If not, what else must the speaker be believing in order for it TO follow?

When I tutor people, I really emphasize these steps. Only after you can answer these questions, should you continue and read the question that's being asked of you. Chances are good, you'll know immediately what the right answer is and then you just have to skim the options looking for it.

[konoha]

What seems to be working for me is to really take my time in answering questions. Id spend a lot of time reading a question and all the answers. Most times I can narrow the correct answer to two choices. I then spend a lot more time reasoning as to which is the better answer and difference between the two. If I can't decide, I'd move on or take a break and come back to it when I'm fresh or get new ideas. Then I find that it's a choice I haven't considered because I read the question from a new point of view. I think that is the key, improving the understanding and the tricks of the word play. It's been a slow process but I am noticing gradual improvements. I find that simply picking the best choice and then reviewing the answer doesn't help, it's only when I can fully understand the question and every single answer choice and then learning why I'm wrong do I learn. That process for me takes a long time. It takes me a week to finish a logical reasoning section. I do 3-6 questions an hour or two.

[canterlol]

What seems to be working for me is to really take my time in answering questions. Id spend a lot of time reading a question and all the answers. Most times I can narrow the correct answer to two choices. I then spend a lot more time reasoning as to which is the better answer and difference between the two. If I can't decide, I'd move on or take a break and come back to it when I'm fresh or get new ideas. Then I find that it's a choice I haven't considered because I read the question from a new point of view. I think that is the key, improving the understanding and the tricks of the word play. It's been a slow process but I am noticing gradual improvements. I find that simply picking the best choice and then reviewing the answer doesn't help, it's only when I can fully understand the question and every single answer choice and then learning why I'm wrong do I learn. That process for me takes a long time. It takes me a week to finish a logical reasoning section. I do 3-6 questions an hour or two.

Did you mean 3-6 sections?

[konoha]

3-6 questions an hour. It takes me awhile to interpret each question and the answer choices. I don't like selecting an answer if there are other choices that I don't fully understand. If I get an answer wrong, I look up the explanation and search online for a discussion to see other point of views and what key words alter a meaning. For answers I get correct, I still research why it is correct and the others are wrong. That way I hope to gain confidence when selecting a choice. Basically I only like moving on till I understand everything about a question and can explain it clearly in my own words.

[nlee10]

3-6 questions an hour. It takes me awhile to interpret each question and the answer choices. I don't like selecting an answer if there are other choices that I don't fully understand. If I get an answer wrong, I look up the explanation and search online for a discussion to see other point of views and what key words alter a meaning. For answers I get correct, I still research why it is correct and the others are wrong. That way I hope to gain confidence when selecting a choice. Basically I only like moving on till I understand everything about a question and can explain it clearly in my own words.

I hope this is only upon review. In addition to getting your accuracy on point, timing is a whole another beast on the LSAT.

[konoha]

3-6 questions an hour. It takes me awhile to interpret each question and the answer choices. I don't like selecting an answer if there are other choices that I don't fully understand. If I get an answer wrong, I look up the explanation and search online for a discussion to see other point of views and what key words alter a meaning. For answers I get correct, I still research why it is correct and the others are wrong. That way I hope to gain confidence when selecting a choice. Basically I only like moving on till I understand everything about a question and can explain it clearly in my own words.

I hope this is only upon review. In addition to getting your accuracy on point, timing is a whole another beast on the LSAT.

Yea. I read online that before taking tests for time, focus on accuracy is highly recommended. I think that's they way to go.

[kevgogators]

Mastering the fundamentals is your best friend. Once that is accomplished, all else follows. Start with learning to identify the argument, as stated somewhere above.

You MUST be able to easily point out the conclusion and the support before you can even get remotely close to mastery. Drill on that and make it a habit.

[monadologist]

Mastering the fundamentals is your best friend. Once that is accomplished, all else follows. Start with learning to identify the argument, as stated somewhere above.

You MUST be able to easily point out the conclusion and the support before you can even get remotely close to mastery. Drill on that and make it a habit.

^ this is right.

I started by going -9, -10 in LR and timing out all the time. I'm now consistently -0 to -3 in LR and PTing around 168-175. To be honest, the powerscore/trainer/manhattan books didn't help me score well in LR. What truly helped me was a solid understanding what ARGUMENT means. The most important aspect of LR is to be able to differentiate a conclusion from its premises. Only from there does one even have a chance to understand how to correctly solve 25 questions in under 35 mins. The foundational skills of philosophical logic help here, (google modus ponens, modus tollens and the rules of inference), so does drilling hundreds of Role/ID the Conclusion LR questions. Hope this helps

[justdoit11]

^ this is right.

I started by going -9, -10 in LR and timing out all the time. I'm now consistently -0 to -3 in LR and PTing around 168-175. To be honest, the powerscore/trainer/manhattan books didn't help me score well in LR. What truly helped me was a solid understanding what ARGUMENT means. The most important aspect of LR is to be able to differentiate a conclusion from its premises. Only from there does one even have a chance to understand how to correctly solve 25 questions in under 35 mins. The foundational skills of philosophical logic help here, (google modus ponens, modus tollens and the rules of inference), so does drilling hundreds of Role/ID the Conclusion LR questions. Hope this helps

I am discouragingly stuck at -4 to -7 and when I go back to review, I totally understand why I missed the questions. I also think its the time that makes me rush the questions, especially if I miss a question between #s 1-8 that are supposed to be a breeze! Can I ask how long it took you to improve to consistently -0 to -3? Im confident in my ability to identify the argument (conclusion and premise) so I dont understand WHY Im missing these questions.

[monadologist]

identification is the just the first step. Evaluation is the next. You need to see the flaw, you need to see how P1+P2 does not guarantee the truth of the conclusion, something is missing. The argument assumes something, or makes an invalid inference, or does something else sketchy.