Number of lsat takers falls again (-8.1%) Forum

[Hancock]

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... ministered

8.1% over last year, its a historic low too. In recorded lsat history there have never been this low of an October turn out, by a couple thousand.

So this is a good thing right? Sure the sky continues to fall on schools as apparently no one wants to become a lawyer, but that is good news for applicants right? Or at least that is the way I am going to take it, plenty of law schools with hardly any students to go around.

[p89sean16]

Down ~50% since 2009-2010. Quite the correction. I'll take it!

[TLSanders]

Good news for applicants in the sense that there's less competition, sure. But, it's worth thinking beyond that. There are a lot of unemployed law school graduates out there, and a lot of the "employed" ones are doing document review for $20-25/hour.

Less discussed but (in my view) more significant is the fact that the legal profession is evolving considerably, and most law schools are still preparing students for the old world.

I'm not saying "don't go to law school!" and the sky isn't falling, but there are some very clear shifts in play that anyone considering law school today should investigate carefully before making a decision--especially if loans are involved.

[Nomo]

The good news for prospective applicants is that schools will either have to lower standards a little more than they did last year or they will have to admit a few less students than they did last year (or some combination of the two). Either way your employment prospects will be marginally better than they would have been if you went last year. At the same time tuition will likely continue to rise each year at most schools, there will still be way more graduates than jobs, and the vast majority of the jobs that do exist will not pay well enough to make law school a reasonable investment given the cost of tuition.

[LSAT Hacks (Graeme)]

One consideration when choosing a school: a good chunk of them will close when this keeps up. Possibly while you are there. And in a few years a significant number of new lawyers will have no alma mater.

[RCSOB657]

Is data available to distinguish between first timers and retakes? I'd be interested to see a stat like that vs just overall test takers.

[Mal Reynolds]

Good news for applicants in the sense that there's less competition, sure. But, it's worth thinking beyond that. There are a lot of unemployed law school graduates out there, and a lot of the "employed" ones are doing document review for $20-25/hour.

Less discussed but (in my view) more significant is the fact that the legal profession is evolving considerably, and most law schools are still preparing students for the old world.

I'm not saying "don't go to law school!" and the sky isn't falling, but there are some very clear shifts in play that anyone considering law school today should investigate carefully before making a decision--especially if loans are involved.

People shouldn't go to shit schools? This is groundbreaking stuff.

[CocoSunshine]

I remember that the proportion of test takers who achieved 170+ keep increasing. It seems that, for applicants aiming at T14, the competition remains fierce.

[Rigo]

I remember that the proportion of test takers who achieved 170+ keep increasing. It seems that, for applicants aiming at T14, the competition remains fierce.

You're talking about the # of 170+ takers who actually APPLIED to law school rather than elect not to. That increased this past year.

[TLSanders]

Good news for applicants in the sense that there's less competition, sure. But, it's worth thinking beyond that. There are a lot of unemployed law school graduates out there, and a lot of the "employed" ones are doing document review for $20-25/hour.

Less discussed but (in my view) more significant is the fact that the legal profession is evolving considerably, and most law schools are still preparing students for the old world.

I'm not saying "don't go to law school!" and the sky isn't falling, but there are some very clear shifts in play that anyone considering law school today should investigate carefully before making a decision--especially if loans are involved.

People shouldn't go to shit schools? This is groundbreaking stuff.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person. My post has nothing whatsoever to do with school quality--at least, not as it's typically perceived. In fact, some lower ranked schools are actually doing a much better job of preparing their students for the realities of the current/future legal landscape than some of the best ranked ones, which are more reluctant to part with tradition and more accustomed to grooming students for a particular niche.

[Mal Reynolds]

Good news for applicants in the sense that there's less competition, sure. But, it's worth thinking beyond that. There are a lot of unemployed law school graduates out there, and a lot of the "employed" ones are doing document review for $20-25/hour.

Less discussed but (in my view) more significant is the fact that the legal profession is evolving considerably, and most law schools are still preparing students for the old world.

I'm not saying "don't go to law school!" and the sky isn't falling, but there are some very clear shifts in play that anyone considering law school today should investigate carefully before making a decision--especially if loans are involved.

People shouldn't go to shit schools? This is groundbreaking stuff.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person. My post has nothing whatsoever to do with school quality--at least, not as it's typically perceived. In fact, some lower ranked schools are actually doing a much better job of preparing their students for the realities of the current/future legal landscape than some of the best ranked ones, which are more reluctant to part with tradition and more accustomed to grooming students for a particular niche.

What are these schools and what are they doing differently?

[PeanutsNJam]

Good news for applicants in the sense that there's less competition, sure. But, it's worth thinking beyond that. There are a lot of unemployed law school graduates out there, and a lot of the "employed" ones are doing document review for $20-25/hour.

Less discussed but (in my view) more significant is the fact that the legal profession is evolving considerably, and most law schools are still preparing students for the old world.

I'm not saying "don't go to law school!" and the sky isn't falling, but there are some very clear shifts in play that anyone considering law school today should investigate carefully before making a decision--especially if loans are involved.

People shouldn't go to shit schools? This is groundbreaking stuff.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person. My post has nothing whatsoever to do with school quality--at least, not as it's typically perceived. In fact, some lower ranked schools are actually doing a much better job of preparing their students for the realities of the current/future legal landscape than some of the best ranked ones, which are more reluctant to part with tradition and more accustomed to grooming students for a particular niche.

Yes but I don't get oooohs and ahhhhs when I show people my non-T14 law school diploma, and in life that's all that matters

[HRomanus]

People shouldn't go to shit schools? This is groundbreaking stuff.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person. My post has nothing whatsoever to do with school quality--at least, not as it's typically perceived. In fact, some lower ranked schools are actually doing a much better job of preparing their students for the realities of the current/future legal landscape than some of the best ranked ones, which are more reluctant to part with tradition and more accustomed to grooming students for a particular niche.

So basically there are a lot of well-prepared, unemployed JDs and a lot of unprepared, employed JDs. Call me a naive 0L, but I think I'd rather be the latter.

[Mal Reynolds]

People shouldn't go to shit schools? This is groundbreaking stuff.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person. My post has nothing whatsoever to do with school quality--at least, not as it's typically perceived. In fact, some lower ranked schools are actually doing a much better job of preparing their students for the realities of the current/future legal landscape than some of the best ranked ones, which are more reluctant to part with tradition and more accustomed to grooming students for a particular niche.

So basically there are a lot of well-prepared, unemployed JDs and a lot of unprepared, employed JDs. Call me a naive 0L, but I think I'd rather be the latter.

No graduating JDs are prepared to practice law. Those are just empty platitudes from someone trying to hock their business and services on TLS.

[TLSanders]

People shouldn't go to shit schools? This is groundbreaking stuff.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person. My post has nothing whatsoever to do with school quality--at least, not as it's typically perceived. In fact, some lower ranked schools are actually doing a much better job of preparing their students for the realities of the current/future legal landscape than some of the best ranked ones, which are more reluctant to part with tradition and more accustomed to grooming students for a particular niche.

So basically there are a lot of well-prepared, unemployed JDs and a lot of unprepared, employed JDs. Call me a naive 0L, but I think I'd rather be the latter.

No graduating JDs are prepared to practice law. Those are just empty platitudes from someone trying to hock their business and services on TLS.

Like I said, anyone considering law school at this point in the evolution of the legal field should do some careful research into much more than school rankings and artificial job placement figures.

Obviously, advising people to think twice before applying to law school isn't a means of drumming up business for either LSAT prep or personal statement coaching. If this were a logical reasoning question, you'd definitely be on the wrong end of it. But that's okay; other users can draw their own conclusions, and I'm sure that anyone seriously considering a T14 school can see the wisdom of doing homework beyond the quick and obvious.

[Mal Reynolds]

I think you may have quoted the wrong person. My post has nothing whatsoever to do with school quality--at least, not as it's typically perceived. In fact, some lower ranked schools are actually doing a much better job of preparing their students for the realities of the current/future legal landscape than some of the best ranked ones, which are more reluctant to part with tradition and more accustomed to grooming students for a particular niche.

What are these schools and what are they doing differently?

You never answered this question. Just provided more useless platitudes with nothing of substance.

[musedreverie]

I think you may have quoted the wrong person. My post has nothing whatsoever to do with school quality--at least, not as it's typically perceived. In fact, some lower ranked schools are actually doing a much better job of preparing their students for the realities of the current/future legal landscape than some of the best ranked ones, which are more reluctant to part with tradition and more accustomed to grooming students for a particular niche.

How are some of these 'lower ranked' schools as you say better preparing their graduates more for the changing landscape of the legal profession than some of the top ones? Any substantial examples?

I really am curious. How are lower ranked schools coping with and better preparing their students for the declining employment rate, low bar passage rates, low retention rates at work place after 5 years than say, HYS?

I hope you don't mean the professors just quote NYT or WSJ Opinions sections detailing what apocalyptic future awaits law school graduates.

[twenty 8]

Glad to read that people are finally catching on that they need an impressive L/G score to secure a healthy scholarship. No one wants to pay 2k a month for the next 5-7 years, even if their income is six figures. What I saw recently is that T14 bar passage are mostly in the 90s. Probably because students with a high L/G are smarter (v. better/different teaching).

[Clyde Frog]

As Ebola spreads you can be sure that the number of test takers will continue to drop.