Need Massive Help! Forum

[tezzeret]

Okay, here is an update from my previous post. Long story short second time taking LSAT (1st was in 2012), started studying again in July (Manhattan RC/LR, PS LGB, Lsat trainer). I finished all my materials last week and took my first PT this year (keep in mind I must've taken about 30 in 2012 but I don't remember any of the questions) on Tuesday and got a 156 on PT 29 (-7 LG due to time, -4 on each LR section, and -19 on RC, can't explain) which was my highest PT score to date.

Today I STARTED to take PT 30, and breezed through the first game of section 1 in record time (like 7 mins or less), then it happened...I got to the second game and I got destroyed after the first question, and it went downhill from there. I then ended up moving on to the third game without completing the second game because I was reaching the 20 minute mark at that point, and the third game (a game I realized I had done multiple times in the past) tripped me up as well and before you know it I just overloaded. I couldn't even find it in me to finish the rest of this PT because I was thrown so far off balance from this. Is this a sign of burnout? I have no idea what to do, and with the test like two weeks away this is not what I want to be experiencing right now. So as the title implies, I need help with what's going on here. (Also should note I generally DO NOT struggle with LG)

[Rigo]

I would drill LG in these next two weeks. I think it's more so that you don't have strong foundational skills, rather than burnout. PT G2 is a simple ordering game. That shouldn't trip you up. Reattempt that game now, and then again tomorrow.

I'm more concerned about your RC score, to be honest.

You do have the option to withdraw up until the midnight of September 26th. I don't know what your goals are, but these last two weeks should be about building confidence, and you're far from that it seems.

Also, do you not have the more modern tests? This close to the administration, it would behoove you to be taking tests given in the last few years rather than LSATs from the 90's.

[lsatkillah]

.

[tezzeret]

I have all the PTs up to 71. I didn't want to touch the more recent ones until I have all the fundamentals downpat. My desired score is 165+, so being that PT 29 was a 156 (granted it is only one PT) I am still way off from my mark. However, maybe taking more modern test will yield different results. When I studied for the 2012 test my highest PT scores were in the 150's with my actual lsat score of 149. I made several big mistakes that year though such as taking the lsat/studying while working full-time + taking 6 classes in addition to taking a subpar prep course. Going forward I think I am just going to take a brake for the rest of the week, and on Monday I will take a more recent PT, and take it from there. Taking it in December isn't the end of the world for me, but I loathe the idea of studying for another 2+ months.

@ lsatkillah yeah, I have done all of the LG's on this PT many times before and I am not quite sure why today I felt lost. I have seen games 1,2,3 on this section several times throughout my studying between 2012 and now, and I was shocked that I got hung up on games 2 and 3 for that exact reason. Perhaps it was the fact that I recognized the games that threw me off.

At the end of the day, bar none, RC is my worst section. While the -19 yielded from PT 29 was outrageous, I generally go about -10 to -12 on RC and that mostly comes due to timing issues.

[Rigo]

I have all the PTs up to 71. I didn't want to touch the more recent ones until I have all the fundamentals downpat. My desired score is 165+, so being that PT 29 was a 156 (granted it is only one PT) I am still way off from my mark. However, maybe taking more modern test will yield different results. When I studied for the 2012 test my highest PT scores were in the 150's with my actual lsat score of 149. I made several big mistakes that year though such as taking the lsat/studying while working full-time + taking 6 classes in addition to taking a subpar prep course. Going forward I think I am just going to take a brake for the rest of the week, and on Monday I will take a more recent PT, and take it from there. Taking it in December isn't the end of the world for me, but I loathe the idea of studying for another 2+ months.

The modern tests are not drastically different enough that your score would shoot into the mid-160's, but if you're taking in September, it is important that you encounter tests that would be most reflective of the official test you'd be sitting for. Many people say the games are easier (reversed a bit in the last few admins), but the biggest different is the comparative reading passages in RC.

Take a few days to regroup if you wish. I recommend doing a LG section each day so the skills are fresh in your mind, though. I find that I'm pretty rusty when it comes to LG if I take time off from it.

Studying for a longer period of time than originally planned does suck, but (at least for me) a score that falls short of your goals sucks more.

Best of luck!

[tezzeret]

I have all the PTs up to 71. I didn't want to touch the more recent ones until I have all the fundamentals downpat. My desired score is 165+, so being that PT 29 was a 156 (granted it is only one PT) I am still way off from my mark. However, maybe taking more modern test will yield different results. When I studied for the 2012 test my highest PT scores were in the 150's with my actual lsat score of 149. I made several big mistakes that year though such as taking the lsat/studying while working full-time + taking 6 classes in addition to taking a subpar prep course. Going forward I think I am just going to take a brake for the rest of the week, and on Monday I will take a more recent PT, and take it from there. Taking it in December isn't the end of the world for me, but I loathe the idea of studying for another 2+ months.

The modern tests are not drastically different enough that your score would shoot into the mid-160's, but if you're taking in September, it is important that you encounter tests that would be most reflective of the official test you'd be sitting for. Many people say the games are easier (reversed a bit in the last few admins), but the biggest different is the comparative reading passages in RC.

Take a few days to regroup if you wish. I recommend doing a LG section each day so the skills are fresh in your mind, though. I find that I'm pretty rusty when it comes to LG if I take time off from it.

Studying for a longer period of time than originally planned does suck, but (at least for me) a score that falls short of your goals sucks more.

Best of luck!

Thanks for your input, I think I know what I have to do. I agree that the modern tests are not magically going to result in a higher score, but I always felt the more recent games were easier but who knows, at the end of the day I want to be able to tackle any section from any test.

Edit: I went back and redid the games again and I crushed them. What the hell, now they were crystal clear to me...

[tezzeret]

This is an ongoing update of my status. Last week I took two PT'S (1 and 1/5th actually). The first PT 29, I got a 156. The second PT 30, I got freaked out after the first section (which was LG and I fell apart at the seams on what is one of my strongest sections) and did not complete the rest of it. Today I took PT 61 and got a 148, and I suffered from Time issues (hit the 5 minute warning on about q18 on both LR sections, end of game 3, and after the second passage of RC).

I have studied for and taken the LSAT in 2012 (took a prep course). I began restudying for the LSAT in July of this year with Manhattan LR/RC books, PS LGB and the LSAT trainer. I completed the books two weeks ago and just started PTing last week. However I still feel I have the same comprehension I've had before the books, and I feel that now the September LSAT is completely out of the question, but I don't know what to do to fix my issues for December as I exhausted all my studying materials, and have like 5 "next 10 lsat books", so figure 50 PT's, but is it really worth it to take these PT's while still making fundamental mistakes? To say the least I am disappointed I have the feeling as if I made no progress with the books and I am still scoring around the same as 2012.

[Rigo]

What are your goals?
Sitting for the September test doesn't seem wise both given where you are at with your prep (50 PT's and the most recent one you've taken is 30?) and your current mental state. If withdrawing from the test will make you less anxious, and you know deep inside there is a high likelihood you won't achieve your goals in less than two weeks, then withdraw and shift focus to December.
Don't view the decision in a negative light. It's okay to be disappointed, but don't take it out on yourself. Don't entertain a defeatist attitude.

The amount of prep materials you have is good. I don't think you're missing anything. In case you don't know, 7sage videos are good for logic game explanations. Go back to the drawing board and start from scratch. Use the rest of September to really build a new foundation.
Games may be your strong suit, but your foundation isn't solid based on your performance in that last PT. It's okay. I may think I've got LG completely mastered and then I come upon a section that completely humbles me. There are always LG sections that trip up even the best LSAT takers. Prep is about minimizing the chances of that happening. It's not about being perfect every single time day in and day out; it's about minimizing risks through being as prepared as one can be.
Drill games. Seriously. All the time. Never take your skills for granted or feel secure in your game abilities. It is a skill that can quickly become rusty if not practiced each week.

Join the December Study Group for encouragement. You're not alone in this long and difficult journey.

[tezzeret]

What are your goals?
Sitting for the September test doesn't seem wise both given where you are at with your prep (50 PT's and the most recent one you've taken is 30?) and your current mental state. If withdrawing from the test will make you less anxious, and you know deep inside there is a high likelihood you won't achieve your goals in less than two weeks, then withdraw and shift focus to December.
Don't view the decision in a negative light. It's okay to be disappointed, but don't take it out on yourself. Don't entertain a defeatist attitude.

The amount of prep materials you have is good. I don't think you're missing anything. In case you don't know, 7sage videos are good for logic game explanations. Go back to the drawing board and start from scratch. Use the rest of September to really build a new foundation.
Games may be your strong suit, but your foundation isn't solid based on your performance in that last PT. It's okay. I may think I've got LG completely mastered and then I come upon a section that completely humbles me. There are always LG sections that trip up even the best LSAT takers. Prep is about minimizing the chances of that happening. It's not about being perfect every single time day in and day out; it's about minimizing risks through being as prepared as one can be.
Drill games. Seriously. All the time. Never take your skills for granted or feel secure in your game abilities. It is a skill that can quickly become rusty if not practiced each week.

Join the December Study Group for encouragement. You're not alone in this long and difficult journey.

When you say start from scratch what do you recommend? Going through all the books again? If that's the case it would be tough because it took me about 2 months to finish all 4 books and I don't have that kind of time again because I want to be taking as many PT's as I can before the test date. Conversely, I don't want to be taking PT's if I'm "wasting" them. Between a rock and a hard place for sure...

[Rigo]

What are your goals?
Sitting for the September test doesn't seem wise both given where you are at with your prep (50 PT's and the most recent one you've taken is 30?) and your current mental state. If withdrawing from the test will make you less anxious, and you know deep inside there is a high likelihood you won't achieve your goals in less than two weeks, then withdraw and shift focus to December.
Don't view the decision in a negative light. It's okay to be disappointed, but don't take it out on yourself. Don't entertain a defeatist attitude.

The amount of prep materials you have is good. I don't think you're missing anything. In case you don't know, 7sage videos are good for logic game explanations. Go back to the drawing board and start from scratch. Use the rest of September to really build a new foundation.
Games may be your strong suit, but your foundation isn't solid based on your performance in that last PT. It's okay. I may think I've got LG completely mastered and then I come upon a section that completely humbles me. There are always LG sections that trip up even the best LSAT takers. Prep is about minimizing the chances of that happening. It's not about being perfect every single time day in and day out; it's about minimizing risks through being as prepared as one can be.
Drill games. Seriously. All the time. Never take your skills for granted or feel secure in your game abilities. It is a skill that can quickly become rusty if not practiced each week.

Join the December Study Group for encouragement. You're not alone in this long and difficult journey.

When you say start from scratch what do you recommend? Going through all the books again? If that's the case it would be tough because it took me about 2 months to finish all 4 books and I don't have that kind of time again because I want to be taking as many PT's as I can before the test date. Conversely, I don't want to be taking PT's if I'm "wasting" them. Between a rock and a hard place for sure...

I'm at a loss of what to say. You have to pick a path, otherwise you will stay exactly where you are.
If your peak is 156, I don't think you should burn more PTs. 156 isn't even close to having a firm grasp on the concepts. Your point breakdown is so odd. Someone scoring -4 on each LR section has potential. You're just not pulling together a good performance. You either do awesome on LG and awful at RC, or do alright at RC and awful at LG. This shows you're not consistent.
If going back to the start is too much of a time commitment (hey, it's your future so you prioritize as you wish), then focus on RC and LG.
LG is about drilling. Use 7sage to help you understand each game.
RC is more difficult. I am by no means an RC expert, but I plan on using the guides stickied at the top of this forum and other little tips I pick up on TLS. I don't have any first-hand wisdom on RC for you though.

Furthermore, not everyone can score over a 170, a 165, a 160, etc. TLS is a sample of test takers that is not reflective of the population. Each person has a ceiling.
I do think you can score higher based on what you've said, but it takes work. You seem to have more resources at your disposal than many test takers had. Stop looking for a secret trick. There is none. There are strategies for each question type, but there is no way to circumvent practice and dedication. I suggest you just get to work.
The Cambridge packets* for RC and LG are useful for drilling. I suggest you work on these two sections now. LG is the easiest to tackle, so start there. Drill until you're a LG master. Mastery doesn't mean you do one section perfectly. Drill until you can do 5+ sections in a row, on time! and only miss a few questins. It sounds like you're at a point where it's either hit or miss. Get it so you hit 95+% of the time.

*If you don't want to purchase the packets, take apart all the previous PT's you've already done and make fresh copies. Drill with those sections. Also, disassemble PTs 31-40 for drilling purposes. Cambridge is PTs 1-40 anyways, so no need to double pay if you already have those tests.
PTs 40-70ish is more than enough to keep whole and fresh. It's more than 2 a week from now until December, and you're not even ready to start PTing so it's definitely more than enough for you.

[tezzeret]

so would the cambridge packets be sufficient for the next step, or should I go back to the materials I already have? The materials I bought were already expensive, how much more money do I have to drop on this already?

[Rigo]

so would the cambridge packets be sufficient for the next step, or should I go back to the materials I already have?

Like I said, you probably already have enough materials to make your own Cambridge packets.
Dismantling PT's 21-40 would be enough to start LG and RC and also LR if you really note the question types you get wrong.

I just bought Cambridge because I didn't have PT's for 1-40. Whereas, for you, it would be double paying most likely since you seem to have those Preptests.

[tezzeret]

so would the cambridge packets be sufficient for the next step, or should I go back to the materials I already have?

Like I said, you probably already have enough materials to make your own Cambridge packets.
Dismantling PT's 21-40 would be enough to start LG and RC and also LR if you really note the question types you get wrong.

I just bought Cambridge because I didn't have PT's for 1-40. Whereas, for you, it would be double paying most likely since you seem to have those Preptests.

What would be the most efficient way to separate them by group? Is there a website that has the classifications for all questions by type for reference?

[Rigo]

so would the cambridge packets be sufficient for the next step, or should I go back to the materials I already have?

Like I said, you probably already have enough materials to make your own Cambridge packets.
Dismantling PT's 21-40 would be enough to start LG and RC and also LR if you really note the question types you get wrong.

I just bought Cambridge because I didn't have PT's for 1-40. Whereas, for you, it would be double paying most likely since you seem to have those Preptests.

What would be the most efficient way to separate them by group? Is there a website that has the classifications for all questions by type for reference?

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/p/spreadsh ... ta.html#lg

For RC, I just do them. There's no point in separating them into Humanities, Social Science, Natural Science, or Law.
For LG, I do them in the groups they were in the PT as. It allows me to practice ordering and grouping every day. However, starting out with focusing on each type at a time can be useful. Be able to quickly switch from type to type one you get better though.
For LR, the Cambridge books I have separates them by question type for drilling purposes. You can easily tell what each one is just by reading the stem though. You seem fine on LR for the time being, anyways.

[tezzeret]

so would the cambridge packets be sufficient for the next step, or should I go back to the materials I already have?

Like I said, you probably already have enough materials to make your own Cambridge packets.
Dismantling PT's 21-40 would be enough to start LG and RC and also LR if you really note the question types you get wrong.

I just bought Cambridge because I didn't have PT's for 1-40. Whereas, for you, it would be double paying most likely since you seem to have those Preptests.

What would be the most efficient way to separate them by group? Is there a website that has the classifications for all questions by type for reference?

http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/p/spreadsh ... ta.html#lg

For RC, I just do them. There's no point in separating them into Humanities, Social Science, Natural Science, or Law.
For LG, I do them in the groups they were in the PT as. It allows me to practice ordering and grouping every day. However, starting out with focusing on each type at a time can be useful. Be able to quickly switch from type to type one you get better though.
For LR, the Cambridge books I have separates them by question type for drilling purposes. You can easily tell what each one is just by reading the stem though. You seem fine on LR for the time being, anyways.

Dirigo your a saint, I'd lose my sanity if it wasn't for your insight. I really appreciate your help.

[Rigo]

Dirigo your a saint, I'd lose my sanity if it wasn't for your insight. I really appreciate your help.

No problem! Keep fighting the good fight & best of luck.