Benefits to retaking a 174? (yes, I know how it sounds) Forum

[chiliad]

There was a thread about a retaking a 173, but let me make this one more targeted.

I am wondering whether there would be any benefit to retaking a 174 in the contexts of 1) admission, and 2) scholarships. I know this sounds like a crazy question, but I just do not know enough about the admissions processes at schools like HYS/CCN to know the answer.


Story: One year out of college; currently a high school teacher. Good academic record (top 10% at HYP). Average softs. Took LSAT in June for the first time.

I obviously recognize that my score is very good. I am aware that I can send off compelling applications with my current scores, even to top schools. It does not, however, reflect my ability. I have been having sleep anxiety issues recently and got <5 hours the night before the exam. Predictably, the Reading section, which scales the most with sleep for me, was the only one where I missed any points. My PTs were consistently at 179-180.

The only reasons I would even think about retaking are for significantly improved chances at scholarships and significantly improved admissions chances. My angle was going to be to apply early with great stats, but now that is kind of out the window for the top schools (the stats, not the early). I know that sounds somewhat presumptuous, but to put in my personal context, this is the first standardized test I have not aced on my first try. First time for everything, and the blow to my self-esteem has been a positive learning experience, but w/e.

I feel like there is no reason to retake and I am just looking for reasons to prove myself and satisfy my perfectionism, but maybe I am overlooking something.

[Tanicius]

There was a thread about a retaking a 173, but let me make this one more targeted.

I am wondering whether there would be any benefit to retaking a 174 in the contexts of 1) admission, and 2) scholarships. I know this sounds like a crazy question, but I just do not know enough about the admissions processes at schools like HYS/CCN to know the answer.


Story: One year out of college; currently a high school teacher. Good academic record (top 10% at HYP). Average softs. Took LSAT in June for the first time.

I obviously recognize that my score is very good. I am aware that I can send off compelling applications with my current scores, even to top schools. It does not, however, reflect my ability. I have been having sleep anxiety issues recently and got <5 hours the night before the exam. Predictably, the Reading section, which scales the most with sleep for me, was the only one where I missed any points. My PTs were consistently at 179-180.

The only reasons I would even think about retaking are for significantly improved chances at scholarships and significantly improved admissions chances. My angle was going to be to apply early with great stats, but now that is kind of out the window for the top schools (the stats, not the early). I know that sounds somewhat presumptuous, but to put in my personal context, this is the first standardized test I have not aced on my first try. First time for everything, and the blow to my self-esteem has been a positive learning experience, but w/e.

I feel like there is no reason to retake and I am just looking for reasons to prove myself and satisfy my perfectionism, but maybe I am overlooking something.

Assuming you mean 3.8 or higher for your top 10% at HYP, then no, I don't think you realistically would have to retake in order to crack HYS. You will definitely get some great scholarships at CCN, though maybe not a full ride at them. You could easily be looking at a fullride for the rest of the T-14 though.

[gnomgnomuch]

top 10% at HYP doesn't mean anything, unless top 10% = ~3.8 GPA.

There could be SOME upside to retaking, like getting the Hamilton instead of the Butler, but if you're GPA is at a 3.8 and higher, you're prob gonna get one out of HYS (H seems most likely), a nice scholly for CCN, and full rides at multiple t-14's.

[chiliad]

I have a 3.8+, yes.

From the responses so far, it sounds like there is some upside for scholarships, but not so much for admission.

[Sls17]

I'm a little thrown by the idea that a 174 could be a blow to one's self-esteem...

A 174 is in the 99th percentile. Even if you do better, you would only be beating out less than 1% of people taking the LSAT. I doubt this will be the difference in any admission or scholarship situation.

That said, I acknowledge that there's nothing to lose by retaking. That 174 will stand strong either way, and there is (I suppose) an itty bitty minuscule chance that a higher score could make some sort of difference. If you want to chase that 180, go wild.

[CFC1524]

I have a 3.8+, yes.

From the responses so far, it sounds like there is some upside for scholarships, but not so much for admission.

Disclaimer: 0L

I would agree with what you said above - increasing your score will certainly help for scholarships (Hamilton and Ruby are in play depending on softs and GPA). Obviously having a higher score will increase your chances for admission as well (how can having a higher score be bad?), but you're basically guaranteed admission already to everywhere except S and Y with a 3.8+ and a 174. How debt-averse are you? Do you want UVA/Duke for free (or NYU/CLS for cheap), or do you really want Yale or Stanford?

If you retake and do worse, it's possible you would hurt your chance for admission to Y/S (and probably H, but less so). I say this because these are basically the only schools that look at both LSAT scores, not just the highest. That said, if you're consistently PT'ing above 176, I would say definitely go for it

[chiliad]

How debt-averse are you? Do you want UVA/Duke for free (or NYU/CLS for cheap), or do you really want Yale or Stanford?

My goal is to get into at least one of HYS, especially HS.

If I do not get into any of the three, I would consider applying in a future cycle, regardless of offers from other schools. I am not particularly debt-averse.

[nerd1]

You should do something productive instead. You will likely get a Butler from Columbia and a substantial scholarship offer from Chicago. Choosing among HYS would be your ideal situation. People downplay softs on this forum, but with your numbers, getting admitted to all three will require good softs, not higher numbers. Essentially, you will likely get into H with your current numbers. You won't improve your chances at S by increasing your LSAT. As S's stats show (lower LSAT and GPA than both Y and H), S doesn't put as much emphasis on numbers.

[yomisterd]

If you retake and do worse, it's possible you would hurt your chance for admission to Y/S (and probably H, but less so). I say this because these are basically the only schools that look at both LSAT scores, not just the highest.

Pretty sure this is false. At least at Harvard.

[Tanicius]

If you retake and do worse, it's possible you would hurt your chance for admission to Y/S (and probably H, but less so). I say this because these are basically the only schools that look at both LSAT scores, not just the highest.

Pretty sure this is false. At least at Harvard.

At least four years ago when I applied, Harvard averaged, but Stanford was not rumored to.

[FSK]

I think improving the other portions of your application will be a better use of your time towards assuring admittance to HYS, especially YS.

[ms9]

If you retake and do worse, it's possible you would hurt your chance for admission to Y/S (and probably H, but less so). I say this because these are basically the only schools that look at both LSAT scores, not just the highest.

Pretty sure this is false. At least at Harvard.

Y has publically said that they do not want retakes for people with scores in this range. In fact, their admissions dir said that last week. For every other school that we know of, it wouldn't ever hurt to have a higher score, as that is what goes to the ABA and thus, USNWR.

[LochnerMonster]

I applied two years ago with a 174, 3.85+ from a top ivy, and strong softs. I got all three of HYS, but I did not get any of the major (full or fifty percent) scholarships at CCN. Make of that what you will. I have no regrets now.

If you just care about getting into HYS, then absolutely do not retake. But if you care about big money from CCN, you might want to retake -- as crazy as that sounds. Particularly because you've been practicing at such a high range. (My PT average was at 175-176.)

And just to correct a common misconception, schools definitely do not average anymore. I have numerous friends at Yale who took the LSAT multiple times (with significant score gaps), and subsequently had no trouble getting into all the big places with all the fancy scholarships.

[Blythe17]

Y has publically said that they do not want retakes for people with scores in this range. In fact, their admissions dir said that last week. For every other school that we know of, it wouldn't ever heard to have a higher score, as that is what goes to the ABA and thus, USNWR.

Could you specify "scores in this range"? Would this apply to a 173 as well? And by their not wanting such retakes, do you mean that, regardless of a higher score, a retake would hurt the applicant?

[chiliad]

I applied two years ago with a 174, 3.85+ from a top ivy, and strong softs. I got all three of HYS, but I did not get any of the major (full or fifty percent) scholarships at CCN. Make of that what you will. I have no regrets now.

Congratulations! Your stats are somewhat stronger than mine -- my GPA is 3.8-3.85, and my softs are average (if strong = Rhodes, Gates, etc.), but I am holding out hope for some success.

[SteelPenguin]

I applied two years ago with a 174, 3.85+ from a top ivy, and strong softs. I got all three of HYS, but I did not get any of the major (full or fifty percent) scholarships at CCN. Make of that what you will. I have no regrets now.

Congratulations! Your stats are somewhat stronger than mine -- my GPA is 3.8-3.85, and my softs are average (if strong = Rhodes, Gates, etc.), but I am holding out hope for some success.

I think you'll manage to have some success with those numbers... just a hunch. Remember though, it appears that applications will be down yet again this year, so just because your numbers may not have gotten you a Ruby or Hamilton a few years ago doesn't mean they can't this year.

[094320]

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[JamMasterJ]

I'd just apply and then maybe consider a February retake once you have some offers. You will most likely get into H and CCN by that time (S and Y may take longer to let you know). At that point, particularly if you're in Hamilton/Ruby contention, then you can consider whether a higher score is worth pursuing. But hold off for now.