Can I use GMAT for LSAT retake prep? Forum

[fixnroll]

Seriously, after going through the LSAT PTs so many times, most of them look so familiar to me, I don't know how much value it would bring to me if I keep studying LSAT solely. I am thinking about inserting some GMAT Reading Comp and Critical Reasoning into the retake prep of LSAT. That does not mean I am abandoning LSAT. Let's say I use 70% time to go through LSAT again, and the rest 30% goes to GMAT.

Does that sound like a practical way to prep for retake? Or should I just simply stick to the LSAT? Any advice will be very much appreciated! (btw, I have 2.5 months left and got a 165 in the first try)

[RZ5646]

If you've truly memorized all 7000+ LSAT questions, you probably don't need to study anymore.

You likely haven't though, and reusing material doesn't seem that bad. For example, I recently retook the PT I used for my diagnostic (a year ago) to get into studying mode without wasting a new PT, and I actually did slightly worse. I vaguely remembered a lot of the game scenarios, LR stimuli, and passage topics, but I didn't remember any of the logical structure or answer choices, and obviously those vague memories didn't help me.

So from that experience I'd recommend just redoing previous questions. Studying the GMAT would probably help you, but not as much as studying the LSAT.

[Christine (MLSAT)]

Absolutely not.

This would at the very best be useless, and could potentially be detrimental. GMAT RC is substantially simpler, with shorter passages, simpler passage construction, and more direct questions. GMAT CR is both 1) significantly easier/simpler than most LSAT LR and also 2) written with an entirely different tone, for a different purpose, and with different typical structures (half of the LSAT LR question types simply never appear). And, as a practical matter, there's an absolutely TINY amount of released GMAT material as compared to LSAT - only around 200 released CR questions are in the GMAT official guides, while LSAT LR has somewhere in the vicinity of 4000 released LR questions.

In essence: in the ways that the GMAT could help you by being similar, it is entirely too easy to be useful. In the ways that the GMAT could challenge you, it would do so only by being different from the LSAT, which would not be useful for you.

If you've really mastered all 300ish LSAT RC passages - mastered them - then as RZ5646 suggests, you'd necessarily be solid on RC. Which, of course, means that if you're not solid on RC, then you haven't actually mastered those existing passages. It is a fair point that RC is harder to "replay", as you are more likely to remember the content of the passage. However, there's still substantial work to be done even so - it just requires that you consciously articulate what the process should be for moving through that passage and answering each question.

One exercise I find useful for improving RC when working with partially familiar passages is to take a passage and try to imagine yourself as the author. The author likely wrote an outline of what he wanted his article or paper to be about before he began spitting out text, and you want to recreate that outline. The very top line would be the Main Point of the passage, and perhaps the I., II., III., level would be the point of each paragraph. Then each of those headings would have an A., B., C., level, of detail to support, and some of those might have a further 1., 2., 3., level,. Work out an exhaustive outline that captures every bit of information from the passage, in appropriate outline form. Once you're done, identify what level of specificity it would be important to understand after reading the passage once (Just the I., II., III., level, or a bit deeper)? Now, go back to the passage and look at the way the passage unfolds - ask yourself how you could have seen/understood the important outline levels quickly from the structure of each paragraph.

This is a really exhaustive exercise, and it's meant to be. By getting deep into the shape and structure of one particular passage, you really begin to train yourself to quickly see passages that you read in that multi-level outline form as you are reading them. Because of the nature of this sort of exercise, it really doesn't matter whether it's a fresh passage or not.

If you want to get exposure to more clean reading material, I'd recommend reading something every day from one of these sources: Smithsonian Magazine, The Atlantic, The New York Review of Books, The New York Times Book Review, NASA News, Scientific American, The Economist, Public Library of Science, Popular Science, Psychology Today, Foreign Affairs, The Socjournal, SCOTUSBlog, Law Professor Blog Network, Arts & Letters Daily.

As for LR, you don't actually have to be this creative to continue to make use of the existing LR questions. The same principle applies: if you have truly mastered all those LR questions, then you'd be scoring higher on LR. Since you are not, that means there are things about the logical structures/trap answers that you do not truly understand.

I'd recommend that you begin a "pile" of LR questions for yourself. These should be any and all LR questions that you don't feel 1000% confident on - and that is a high bar. And then that question does not come OUT of your "pile" until the penny truly drops. You have to be honest with yourself, or this will never work. If you miss a question, look at someone else's explanation for the correct answer, and think "ah, okay, I guess I could see how A is the answer" - that's nowhere near good enough. You have to have that epiphany, that moment where you shout EUREKA! So THAT'S why it works that way!, and you feel confident you could explain it to a 12 year old. You need to force yourself to look for the underlying logical structures in the questions - those patterns get repeated over and over, and mastering some concept on one question will play through to many others.

The fact that you remember the content and and perhaps even the correct answer in no way precludes meaningful work on LR questions. In fact, the vast majority of the value of working on LR comes from deep, thorough, and self-reflective review *after* the first attempt. You haven't tapped even the barest minimum of the potential of the LR questions that you've interacted with.




TL;DR: DO NOT USE GMAT MATERIAL. GMAT RC and CR are WAY easier than LSAT RC and LR, and will not be useful. You have a lot more work to do on the 'gently used' LSAT material than you might have realized.

[fixnroll]

One exercise I find useful for improving RC when working with partially familiar passages is to take a passage and try to imagine yourself as the author. The author likely wrote an outline of what he wanted his article or paper to be about before he began spitting out text, and you want to recreate that outline. The very top line would be the Main Point of the passage, and perhaps the I., II., III., level would be the point of each paragraph. Then each of those headings would have an A., B., C., level, of detail to support, and some of those might have a further 1., 2., 3., level,. Work out an exhaustive outline that captures every bit of information from the passage, in appropriate outline form. Once you're done, identify what level of specificity it would be important to understand after reading the passage once (Just the I., II., III., level, or a bit deeper)? Now, go back to the passage and look at the way the passage unfolds - ask yourself how you could have seen/understood the important outline levels quickly from the structure of each paragraph.

This is a really exhaustive exercise, and it's meant to be. By getting deep into the shape and structure of one particular passage, you really begin to train yourself to quickly see passages that you read in that multi-level outline form as you are reading them. Because of the nature of this sort of exercise, it really doesn't matter whether it's a fresh passage or not.

If you want to get exposure to more clean reading material, I'd recommend reading something every day from one of these sources: Smithsonian Magazine, The Atlantic, The New York Review of Books, The New York Times Book Review, NASA News, Scientific American, The Economist, Public Library of Science, Popular Science, Psychology Today, Foreign Affairs, The Socjournal, SCOTUSBlog, Law Professor Blog Network, Arts & Letters Daily.

Thank you so much! This is incredibly helpful! Doing really exhaustive exercise is actually something I've always wanted to do, at least that means I have put enough effort into it. The reason why I wanted to do GMAT in the first place is because I wanted to read some unfamiliar passages, but since you have recommended all the reading materials that might be helpful, I think I'm just skip GMAT and actually go master LSAT! Anyway, thanks again for the advice!

[Nova]

no, those questions r too easy

[kinglucktsui]

I don't think GMAT will be a good instead. Maybe GRE is better..

[Nova]

I don't think GMAT will be a good instead. Maybe GRE is better..

no

[03152016]

how's the gmat studying going nov