How to diagram logic games correctly? Forum

[ioannisk]

How do you know whether one set of letters would be the base of a diagram and the other set is the set that you place in the diagram for matching or grouping games

[Jeffort]

By evaluating everything and figuring out which variable set is more firmly defined to use as the base labels for slots variables from the other set(s) will be put into. Pretty much by evaluating all the rules thinking big picture in terms of which set represents the 'groups' variables from the other sets will be distributed into. If there are multiple numerical distribution possibilities with each of the two main variable sets, figure out which one is more tightly defined/restricted and use it as the base since it will give you the bare base of slots that has the least amount of different possibilities and can be graphically represented clearly and easily.

If it's a total tossup with various different numerical distribution possibilities for both sets, use the types of relationships the rules focus on as a guide to figure out which way will be more useful for the questions and types of interactions the rules/game involves.

It depends on the various rules/parameters/types of relationships involved in the game, especially when it's an odd ball game type/variation, so there's no one size fits all easy answer.

Have any examples of ones you recently struggled with due to this issue that might be helpful for discussion?

[ioannisk]

By evaluating everything and figuring out which variable set is more firmly defined to use as the base labels for slots variables from the other set(s) will be put into. Pretty much by evaluating all the rules thinking big picture in terms of which set represents the 'groups' variables from the other sets will be distributed into. If there are multiple numerical distribution possibilities with each of the two main variable sets, figure out which one is more tightly defined/restricted and use it as the base since it will give you the bare base of slots that has the least amount of different possibilities and can be graphically represented clearly and easily.

If it's a total tossup with various different numerical distribution possibilities for both sets, use the types of relationships the rules focus on as a guide to figure out which way will be more useful for the questions and types of interactions the rules/game involves.

It depends on the various rules/parameters/types of relationships involved in the game, especially when it's an odd ball game type/variation, so there's no one size fits all easy answer.

Have any examples of ones you recently struggled with due to this issue that might be helpful for discussion?

preptest 39 section 1 game 2

What's going on my man?

[Jeffort]

Ha ha, Capital Enterprises strikes again! This game baffles tons of people and is notorious for making people feel overwhelmed and freezing up on it. It's actually not bad if you don't over complicate things looking for game breaking deductions or many deductions expecting to be able to narrow at least some stuff down. There really aren't any key possibility limiting deductions beyond the limits the explicit rules establish, leaving tons of different possibilities for how the six sessions capital employees attend can be distributed in the grid of nine available sessions where each can be attended by zero one or two of the people, allowing for many different distribution possibilities.

The main base set-up is just a basic grid since it's a combo grouping and sequencing game where we're plugging people into nine different conference sessions organized by day and type.
Groups are the topics, sequence is the days.
Set-up with the rules:

H _ _ _
I _ _ _ ~M ~S
R _ _ _
1 2 3
3(~T)
MM
SS
TT

It's a really open ended game since there is nothing else you can nail down about any particular session/day beyond what the rules explicitly tell you. That's what usually freaks people out about this game, the fact that there aren't any deductions to be found you can write into the gameboard and everyone is used to finding at least a few deductions you can throw into the gameboard. Noticing that it's a really open ended game with lots of possibilities and that the only main restrictions you have are about the people variable set and their distribution possibilities regarding their repeat use since each person goes to two sessions is the key to knowing what to focus on in the questions and to jump right into the questions fast instead of wasting time looking for game board specific limiting deductions.

The key deductions the questions all revolve around aren't anything deep or about narrowed possibilities for any particular places in the base you can write onto the game board. Instead, the questions just test whether you can put together/apply the basic rules and understand how they all interact together with M & S and the different sessions on different days rule to make basic inferences about your variable set. Since M & S don't attend investing, but must attend two different sessions on different days, you know that M will attend one H and one R on different days, so will S. The three 'If' questions info generates simple deductions from just applying the basic rules that are sufficient to prove the CR without anything deeper than applying the basic rules. The three global questions just test superficial level application/understanding of the basic rules and how they relate to the two different sessions different days rule combined with the restrictions on M & S and the restriction on T. Question #9 is the only one where you have to think a little bit beneath the surface beyond just applying all the rules to every AC until you find a rule violation or deduction to determine the CR.

It's a weird game because it has few deductions/tons of different possibilities but a big grid with multiple variable sets where you would expect to find help deductions to throw on the board instead of nothing but seemingly unlimited possibilities and the feeling that you missed something crucial even though you didn't and then the questions and answer choices are all stuff that you can't just simply plug into specified spots to work from but are general non slot specific big picture statements so it's harder to figure out where to start just try out a few hypos and brute force ACs in traditional brute force plug and chug try things out ways where you have something concrete to plug in and start with. You have to understand and apply the rules and deductions somewhat in the generalized abstract since the answer choices and 'If' question stem info is general and has multiple possibilities what is described could/does include in terms of multiple specific hypos with variables nailed down into sessions that are consistent with what is described, making traditional brute force build hypos to test answer choices a very bad time wasting/inefficient front line strategy for trying to find the CRs.

Was it really figuring out the basic grid type base set-up that was hard or was it the questions? Figuring out to make a basic grid for sessions and days with variable set MMSSTT to plug into slots isn't usually the that hard part for students with this game, it's trying to get past the realization that the basic grid set-up gets you almost nowhere like a typical game where you can plug and chug as a last resort to test answers where people freeze and melt down on this game. The questions really only just test whether you can apply the rules on a basic/superficial level in full context, specifically if you find the simple deductions that flow from the different sessions on different days rule with how it interacts with the other restriction on M & S and the one on T, that's it. M will go to H on one day and go to R on a different day, same thing for S, that's the main thing the questions revolve around.